Get Out

You're listening to They Shoot Films with Ken Mercer and FT.

Kosempa.

Hey there, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of They Shoot Films.

My name is Ken Mercer, and I'm joined here, as always, with the great FT.

Kosempa.

FT., how are you?

Well, Ken, I'm in the Sunken Place.

That is a relief.

That is a relief to me for two reasons, FT.

Why is that?

One, because every podcast we've done, I'm always having problems, so it's good to hear that for once you're in a bad place.

And two, having you in the sunken place, I think will probably be beneficial to the flow of the podcast.

Why is that?

I just feel like...

I'm a vessel.

I think the bottom line will just give me...

I'll be able to talk unimpeded more.

Yes.

I joke, FT., you're obviously the key to this whole They Shoot Films media empire.

But sorry, we're talking about this sunken place because the film, this episode, we're going to be focusing on this episode, is the Jordan Peele film Get Out, of course.

And sorry, as always, we should just put...

The name of the podcast should be Spoiler Alert because we talk about these films or we're assuming you've seen them.

And if you've seen it, you know the sunken place is a key part of this film Get Out.

Yes.

This episode, which actually came from a suggestion from one of our dedicated listeners, who said, why don't you guys do a newer film?

And we said, FT., you and I said, great idea.

And so we picked Get Out.

As it turns out, it's not that new.

It seems like a new film, but it's actually a 2017 film.

So definitely newer than anything we've done heretofore on They Shoot Films.

Yes, it is.

Contemporary.

Yes, or pseudo-contemporary.

Semi-contemporary.

But if you're listening to this and you have some kind of suggestion for us at They Shoot Films, you can submit those comments by going to our website.

What's the name of that?

How do you find that website, FT.?

You find it on the webinets at...

Correct.

theyshootfilms.com.

Yeah, if you go there and you can send a message to us, suggestions, if you don't like to type, there's a microphone button, you can send us a voicemail.

And so go to theyshootfilms.com if you've got any suggestions.

But thank you for the listener who did suggest that we do a newer film.

And so we are doing Get Out, the Jordan Peele 2017 film.

And one other quick bit of housekeeping before we dive into this episode.

FT has revealed himself as a master impersonator.

We found out he does some wild celebrity impressions, primarily Christopher Walken.

So he thought, and we all agreed, that if FT was allowed to do his Christopher Walken impersonation on the podcast, it would be great.

It would be like we've got Christopher Walken on the podcast.

So just a heads up, you may be hearing FT on the podcast, who is Christopher Walken impersonation.

FT., but why don't you do it right now so people know what to look forward to.

Actually, could we get a drum roll cued up?

Okay.

Here's FT.

Kosempa's impersonation of the great Christopher Walken.

Wow.

See, it's good.

I don't believe it.

So, this is F.T.'s new role.

You may hear periodically during this episode.

And on all future episodes, you're going to think, wow, they have Christopher Walken on the show.

But it's actually FT as Christopher Walken.

With that out of the way, why don't we dive into this episode's film, Get Out, the 2017 Jordan Peele film.

What do you say, FT., you ready to take it away?

It is a film podcast.

Let's take it away.

Sorry, was that Christopher Walken?

It sounded more like Jack Benny.

Right here on our show.

The old timers.

Topo Gigiou and, yes.

Yes, that is Ed, what's his face?

Jerry Sullivan.

Ed Sullivan.

Yeah, Ed Sullivan.

God, thank you.

Ed Sullivan.

Then the impression was so good.

It wasn't good enough because I heard the impression and I was like, that's Ed, but I didn't get Sullivan.

Whoa, Wilbur.

Whoa.

Don't leave me out in the cold, Wilbur.

Quickly.

Mr.

Ed.

Quickly, let's talk about some of the origins of Get Out.

Jordan Peele, who was a, well, I guess we have to say was a comedian.

He's talked about now, he's fully given himself over to directing, I think.

Was a comedian, was on Mad TV, had a very popular show on Comedy Central, Key and Peele.

He was the Peele of that team, not the key of that team.

But like so many people in show business, he started saying, what I really want to do is direct.

And what he wanted to direct...

What I really want to do is celebrity impersonations.

Yes.

Soon you'll be, that'll be the next thing you want to direct.

Actually, that was the thing, you wanted to direct.

That's right, I've gone uphill.

Right.

Then you became a podcast co-host, then you wanted to do impersonations.

Yes, in the Sunken Place.

Your life is moving, moving, moving.

It's sad and somewhat sad and tragic.

And what he wanted to direct was a horror film.

He had, since he was very young, had always been a fan of horror films and had a deep knowledge of horror films from watching them.

And it's interesting, BC, he's talked about the reason he wanted to direct a horror film, besides the fact that he really knew the genre of work from watching him, was he said as much of a horror film fan as he was when he was a kid, he would have nightmares, he wouldn't be able to sleep, and they really affected him.

And he felt like if he directed a horror film, then he would gain the power.

He would no longer be just a subservient, a victim of the powers of horror film, but he would be wielding that power on unsuspecting others, such as UFT.

Yes.

He'd be able to detach.

Yeah.

And more than that, in Get Out, he specifically wanted to do a horror film for black audiences.

He was well aware, and it's been commented on many times, how black audiences interact with horror films.

It's been, a lot's been said on the subject, most famously by Eddie Murphy in his stand up special Delirious.

We might be able to have Annemarie pop a clip in there, but the joke is black people think white people, white people in horror films are ridiculous because they say, why the fuck didn't you just leave?

Get out.

When the shit happens, yeah, why don't you just leave?

I was watching Poltergeist last month.

I got a question.

Why don't white people just leave the house when there's a ghost in the house?

Y'all stay in the house too fucking long.

Get the fuck out of the house.

Very simple, it's a ghost in the house, get the fuck out.

And not only did they stay in the motherfucking house and pull the guys, they invited more white people over.

Sitting around going, our daughter Carol Ames in the television set.

I would have been gone.

If I had a daughter been down the precinct saying, look man, I went home and my fucking daughter's in the TV set and shit, so I just fucking left.

You can have all the shit, I ain't going back to the motherfucking, I just came down so if she ain't at the school, you don't think I killed the bitch or nothing like that.

But she is inside the TV set, you can have all that shit.

Fuck it.

I'm Mr.

Murphy, didn't you try to save your daughter?

I'm a manager, I tried to save, I turned the channel, the shit didn't work, I got the fuck out.

Well actually, he derived it from a Richard Pryor bit, which maybe we can also get a little clip of that.

Both on the same idea that white people are ridiculous, you know, when you take a tour of a house and the realtor says, and there were ghosts here.

So, you go, you get out.

How much?

The Richard Pryor bit is, you know, the exorcist, it's like when, as soon as the girl starts talking weird, get out of there.

Or when their head turns around, 180, yes.

That should do it, that should do it.

I love when Richard Pryor does his white guy imitation.

It's the best, it's like this cracker.

Oh right, yes, yes.

He always talks like some dude like this, or something.

I'm going to keep my impressions up.

Yes.

Sorry, was that Richard Pryor doing Christopher Walken?

Yes, no.

Well, wow, wow.

So he came up with this idea for this film, which was supposed to be just a straight horror film, Get Out.

Then after Obama got elected, after people started talking that we're living in a post-racial society, which he felt was a lie.

Yes.

I feel is a lie.

Actually, sorry, I felt it was a lie.

Now I feel it's true.

We are in a post-racial society today because the government is, as you know, erasing any mention of slavery in the public record.

So truly post-racial.

You can't read anything or find anything about slavery or race when they get done with it.

Hmm.

Yeah.

You're supposed to say, wow.

Wow.

Yes, I guess so.

Yes.

You missed your cue.

Again.

Yes.

Certain states are.

Certain states are.

Others are upping it.

Yes.

But, you know, my-

No, it's federal.

They just ordered that.

And he mentions slavery in the national parks has to be raised.

And as you know, the Smithsonian has to get rid of that stuff.

So truly post-racial because it can't find out about it.

But Jordan Peele felt the post-racial thing was a lie.

Yes.

So what he thought he was writing is just a horror film, began, became a horror film that was also an examination of race.

And he thought because of that, he thought it would never get made.

And he thought he thought he was writing is a hobby, good to work on a screenwriting, and just kept writing it and rewriting it.

As as Ken Peele became more popular, he was able to sell it with him as a director.

And it was an instant smash.

I think it's opening weekend.

I forget what the numbers were, but they were phenomenal.

I think it made five times its whole budget in the first weekend.

Huge financial success, number eight on the New York Times critic poll of the best films of the 21st century.

And I think we have to make an announcement here, FT.

FT and I decided that it may creep in here, but we're not going to be talking about the racial messages and topics that are in this film for two reasons.

One, we didn't like the idea of two white guys sitting here pontificating on racism or what it's like to be black in America.

And two, it's really been covered.

If you want to read about it, every interview Peele gave about this film, every interviewer just wanted to talk about the racial stuff.

And I feel like there were a lot of topics about it as a film that were woefully neglected because everybody wanted to focus on racism.

So that was an executive decision that was made here.

Keep that in mind as you listen to this podcast.

Yes, and I think there's going to be just elements of the story in which the racial commentary from Jordan Peele becomes evident.

Yes, but when that happens, we're going to bleep it out, right?

We could go real fast, so we don't offend any Trumpies.

So what genre would you say this film Get Out occupies, FT.?

Comedy.

Seriously?

There's a funny bit in it.

No, no, no, it's horror.

But it's interesting because as we did Michael Mann last week, or the last session, you know, we were talking about how he takes a genre and will be able to insert more, you know, larger issues, sociological, philosophical, and Jordan Peele does that clearly in this film.

His whole reason is for that, you know.

It's a vehicle, you know, the horror is a vehicle.

No, and that's what makes it, that makes, is what makes it the film that it is and why it got the attention and interest it got because it is, it functions as a horror film, but it's got this, the examination of racism in there.

And more than that, it's additional to that.

It also, you know, has a lot of elements of satire in it.

Jordan Peele talked about his, you know, one of his inspirations for the film being Stepford Wives, the Stepford Wives, which does have a satirical element.

And when you watch that film does kind of play along a lot of the same story lines as this one does.

You know, a woman who's played by Catherine Ross is a photographer.

She moves to this perfect town.

And interesting that Catherine Ross is a photographer.

And of course, the protagonist of this film is a photographer, moves to this idyllic idyllic town, but gets the sense that all these other women are, you know, they're these perfect housewives, smiling, perfect housewives, subservient, much like Georgina and the groundskeeper in this film.

Walter.

But when you watch The Stefford Wives, you'll see it doesn't play, it plays pure horror.

It's got these satirical elements in it that definitely seems to be part of this film, Get Out.

And power to Jordan Peele.

I always find it's difficult to blend genres and feelings, you know, styles.

And so, you know, he has satire, he has horror, and of course, there's some straight out comic moments with Rod.

Yes.

But it all, it all holds together.

Indeed.

You know, there's another film that came to mind for me.

It was a weirdo film that I, I admit, I started watching it back in the day and I stopped.

It's a film called Change of Mind.

Do you know about this?

No, I don't.

1969.

Basically, the story is about a, you know, a district attorney in Los Angeles, I believe.

He gets a brain transplant.

He has transplanted his brain into a black man's body.

And it's an oddball picture, you know, because his relationship with his wife becomes strained.

And of course, naturally, it's like the black, like me, experience of James Earl Griffith, was it?

Yeah, who changed his pigmentation.

You know, of course, the straining at work.

But there's this whole subplot where he has to defend a racist sheriff.

And the truth is, is that he has evidence that lets him off the hook, you know, that for this crime that this sheriff, that's all I remember.

I'm sorry to be so muddled about it, but it dawned on me and I had to go looking it up and I couldn't find it anywhere except the name of it.

And yeah, it just it's an oddball.

So you're you're you're you're inviting the audience to run out and see this film that's unavailable.

Yeah, it's hard.

I haven't been able to find it anywhere.

One of the other obvious comparisons and Jordan Peele talked about it is to another movie that came from an Ira Levin novel.

Stefford Wives was an Ira Levin novel.

He talks about Rosemary's Baby being one of his favorites and you know, it's an obvious inspiration for Get Out.

How do you how do you feel about the relationship between Rosemary's Baby and Get Out, FT.?

I'd have to ponder that one.

Tell me more.

Okay.

I'm not seeing it immediately.

What am I missing?

Well, it's like the Stefford Wives and Rosemary's Baby, you've got a protagonist who their lover, they're in the case of Rosemary's Baby, the husband brings the protagonist into this situation with a, you know, none of it's revealed with a with a coven, and a group of people who have a nefarious aims for the protagonist's body.

In the case of Rosemary's Baby, they want to impregnate her so she can carry the devil's baby in the case of Get Out.

They want Chris, as played by Daniel Kluh, they want his body to be taken over for-

As a vessel.

For one of the members of this coven.

But the horror mechanism and in both of these pictures, more so in Get Out than Rosemary's Baby, we're in the shoes of the protagonist, Chris, very much in Get Out.

And what we start experiencing is what he experiences, which is something ain't right with these people.

Right.

What's very interesting about Get Out, the additional layer of Get Out is Rosemary's Baby.

Rosemary can't help but thinking, wow, these people are weird.

The tannis root, she hears weird things.

She's not feeling well.

Something's wrong.

Something's wrong.

I know something's wrong.

And what's interesting about Get Out is, well, in both these films, the protagonist thinks something's wrong.

And the first step is, no, it's just me.

I'm just being crazy.

I'm just being paranoid.

The next step in the protagonist's journey is to turn to the person they trust and say, something ain't right here.

Now, in both instances, in Rosemary's Baby, John Cassavetes is like, no, Rosemary, it's just being pregnant, blah, blah, blah.

Why don't we bring you to a doctor?

He'll tell you, and of course, the doctor isn't on it.

Same thing here for Chris, but he's got the added problem that when he starts thinking something's wrong, is something wrong or is this just the way white people are?

Which is pretty ingenious.

Yeah, there's this slight twist is which really works is that Rose sort of goes along.

Okay, babe.

She goes, let's go.

Remember, there's a point where she goes, well, you know, we'll get going right away.

You know, so that was a difference.

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Okay.

Sorry.

You're talking about in this film.

In this film, yes.

Versus Casamedes.

You confuse me and it should be noticed, noted that the protagonist in Rosemary's Baby is Rose, Rosemary.

True.

The woman in this film is Rose.

So I didn't know who, I thought you're talking about Rosemary's Baby there, but you're talking about Rose in Get Out.

Yes, because her name is Rose, not Rosemary.

Anyhow, yes, that was just a slight difference.

I felt that she was going to give the false impression of, you're right, this is fucked up.

My parents are these, this is embarrassing to me, which I liked, it was a complication.

Oh my God, and then my dad was my man stuff.

My man, my man.

I don't think he's ever heard that or said it, and now he just, it's all he says.

Yep.

Oh, and my mom being rude to Georgina, what the fuck was that about?

That was so crazy.

I mean, how are they different than that cop?

That's the fucking bummer of it all.

And just some other quick similarities between Rosemary's Baby and this film Get Out.

Both films share the same beat of the protagonist discovering the truth in Rosemary's Baby.

Her friend Hutch gives her a book of witches, of which the residents of her apartment building are in the book.

In this film, Chris finds Rose's box of photographs and sees Rose with litany of other black men victims, and so the truth comes home.

And the final thing, since we talked about Rose and Rosemary, of course, the leader of both covens has the same name.

And Rosemary's baby, the leader of the coven, the guy who has the whole idea, the head witch, is-

Roman.

Roman Cassavet.

In this film, the grandfather who started the Coagula project is Roman Armitage.

Yes, indeed.

That, I did notice.

Do you want to jump to the opening scene of Get Out?

Yes.

Let's open the discussion of the actual film with the opening scenes.

Yeah.

Go ahead, buddy.

Well, what are your thoughts on the opening scene?

Well, the opening scene, you mean the abduction.

The abduction of, I believe, it's Andre Hayworth.

Yes.

Yeah.

Which was a good catch you had, FT., we were talking about the film after you.

I had, I didn't realize that that the person abducted at the beginning was Andre.

And I didn't go back and watch it.

It's so, so dark.

Was it obvious or did you have to like freeze frame it?

Well, no, it was the second viewing.

And that's one thing I want to say about this film.

It's yet another case where, of course, you can enjoy it on the level of horror and message on the first viewing.

But the second viewing, you really get to see the intricacy of what Jordan Peele was doing with the script.

I just recognized the face.

It was dark.

And I said, that's him.

But I also had known when Rod said that our friend Andre or our acquaintance Andre has been kidnapped or he's been missing for six months.

And that put it together for me.

It wouldn't be a trivial shot.

No, not trivial.

It wouldn't be.

Everything's so tight in this movie that it had to be somebody in the film.

And yes, I did identify him as the actor, you know, whoever the film is.

Although the film is very tight, and as you said, the script, the movie rewards multiple views.

A lot of the benefit of that is all the time that Jordan Peele thought it was just a hobby.

I think it's been said that he wrote 200 drafts of the script.

Get Out of Here, really?

Yeah, very tight script.

But as tight as it was, it would be acceptable if it wasn't a character, because it sets up the fact that black men are being abductive.

So it's better that it was Andre, but it still would be fine if it was not a closed loop with Andre.

Right.

But it did also illustrate two different techniques.

And I think it was pointed out, I forget by whom, of like to be what he called, what was the word that he used?

Harvested or something like that by Jeremy, the brother's method, which is clubbing you on the head and dragging you into a car, and then being seduced by Rose's method, which is what happened to Chris.

So you saw the both methods, the first of two, at least.

Which if you had to be abducted, which method would you choose, FT.?

I'd like to be clubbed over the head by her.

That's not one of the options though.

Would you rather be seduced by her or clubbed by her brother?

You and your binder, yes and no, yes and no, black and white.

I don't know, Ken.

It's a tough question.

How would I want to get murdered or attempted to murder?

Hmm, how about you?

I hadn't really thought of it.

I hadn't thought of it.

You just wanted to ask me.

Well, I mean, the knee jerk reaction is seduced by Rose first, but it gets to the age-old problem of is it better to have loved and lost than, you know.

So, my take on the first scene is it seems very much inspired by a film from one of our podcasts that we did just a few episodes ago.

Do you know of which I speak, FT.?

I do not.

Naked Kiss?

No.

Touch of Evil.

So, once again, we have a film open with an extended, unbroken single shot that goes on for almost three minutes.

Unfortunately, in this case, it's my dreaded steady cam, but still the ambitions kicked off by Orson Welles when he did that long tracking shot to open the film in Lost Touch of Evil, which we talked about in a video we did that Hitchcock wanted to try to one up at the beginning of Psycho.

Now, here's another, and there's probably been countless others that said, how do I start my film?

Well, I'm going to start it with a really long, unbroken single tracking shot.

Right, easy to light to in that case, nighttime scene in the suburbs.

Yeah.

Once in the video.

We talked about post-racial America when he started the post-racial America lie, when Jordan started working on this, when he started working on the screenplay Trayvon Martin, the Trayvon Martin murder was fresh in his mind and was an inspiration.

And what I think that that scene does, and it's very interesting.

So often we have white folks in a black neighborhood, and it's very scary and menacing, Bonfire of the Vanity is just one example.

This flips the script.

Now we have this totally safe upscale white neighborhood where, I think as a white person, you look at it, nothing threatening at all, but the fear and anxiety for a black person being in that neighborhood at night.

So that was an interesting...

Yes.

And it transcends the question, you know, the question, safe for whom?

It's interesting you said a safe neighborhood, you know, presumably, statistically, as long as there's, you know, people, black people don't come into our neighborhood, institutionalize, you know, redlining racism in our culture.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Whereas now, you know, take a walk in 155th and, you know, I have a whole long story about that, where I was bet 100, 100 bucks whether, you know, I could walk down the street some evening.

And I'm like, what in Harlem?

And my friend said, yeah, you know, I'll be right behind you in case, you know, nothing happened.

I didn't even do it.

I said, it's ridiculous.

Nothing's going to happen.

It's a residential neighborhood.

But, you know, fear, baby, fear, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So if you're in it, it eats the soul.

Yes, it does.

Moving forward, if you're ready, ready to move forward in the, in the film, Rose, Rose and, and Chris is played by Daniel Calua, as it turns out, are going to head to her parents' house to be introduced for the, for him to meet her parents for the first time.

And I wanted to go to, to the car ride up, but just one quick mention that was kind of interesting, kind of parallels in this film, the way the characters are then, the characters are introduced.

We see both of them gazing into glass.

Did you catch that FT.?

No.

So Chris, we first see him looking in the bathroom mirror and shaving, and it's kind of interesting in this whole racism, black, white, and white people going to black bodies.

He's putting white shaving cream on his face.

And then we cut to her and see her for the first time, gazing into a case of pastries at a store, and very reminiscent kind of full circle of where the film ends.

One of the last times we see Rose, after thinking she's dispensed with Chris, her boyfriend, she's now on the internet shopping for her next black boyfriend victim.

And in this instance, in the beginning of the film, we see her picking out pastries.

And at the end, she's doing what?

What's she eating?

Oh, Froot Loops.

But not with milk separate.

Yeah.

White milk separate.

Yeah.

I was hoping it was going to be Cocoa Crispies.

I mean, or Cocoa Puffs.

I was like, damn it, Jordan Peele blew it.

Man, it should have been like Cocoa Puffs.

I think there were a couple of things going on in that last scene, jumping to the end.

She's very much shown as a...

She's in her girlhood...

You know, it's a young girl's room.

She's sitting there eating Froot Loops like a kid.

It's good on Jordan Peele, very creepy, I would say.

Yes, indeed.

And just her whole change at that point, you know, different person.

Yes, yeah.

So they head up to meet her parents after that preamble.

And the first omen, not omen like the horror film, but omen in this film, is they hit a deer.

And I have quite a lot to say about deer, if I could.

And I apologize up front, FT., it's gonna be a little bit of a stem-winder, but you would agree that the deer are so prominent in this film, and I think it bears examining, why did Jordan Peele have so many deer in this film?

And I'd like to hold forth on what I think, why there were so many deers.

May I deer?

You mean the two deer?

Yes.

No, three.

Well, you'll see, they kind of, it's a constant thread throughout the film.

So they first hit this deer, they're driving on the road, it comes out of nowhere, which is, I must say, sorry, before I even get into my deer diatribe, it's a scary thing.

Have you ever had a deer pop out?

Oh, hell yeah, yes.

I hit one one time.

I had one too, and it's crazy.

It is.

When you watch the film, it's insane because it pops out of nowhere, and you kind of think, oh, that's a horror device.

But that's the way it happens, folks.

Yes, it is.

They leap out in front of me.

Yes.

And after I hit the deer, my wife wasn't in the car with me, but she said, oh, you weren't paying.

I'm telling you, FT., when I hit the deer, Yes, yes.

I was totally paying attention, not doing it.

I don't even think I had the radio on, and this thing just popped out in front of me, and boom.

It was so frigging loud.

Sorry to be graphic here, folks.

It got dragged under the car.

Oh, Jesus.

Yeah, and so I stop, and much like in this film, it's alive by the side of the road.

Breathing, you know, I'm seeing it, so I move up and down, and looking at me.

Yeah, it's the worst.

But it was terrible.

Interesting, interesting.

The one case that happened with me, I was able to slow down, and we bumped it.

Boom.

Knocked it down in front of the road headlights night.

And again, like you said, it just jumped right out.

Get out of the car, and I'm like, Oh my God.

And it was breathing, no blood.

A car pulls up behind me.

It was an off-duty cop who all of a sudden I hear, this is the honest God truth, a pumper shotgun going click, click.

The deer jumps up and runs off into the woods.

Wow.

And this cop was just like, he's gotta put it out of its misery.

And I'm like going, no, there was no problem with it.

But anyhow, we just got in the car.

I didn't want to deal with this.

But there was that moment where I also, the deer looked at me before it jumped up, the eyes, and I didn't know what happened.

I didn't see an injury, but that was wacky.

It's a scary thing.

Yeah.

With that set up will allow me to go into my deer diatribe.

Deer diatribe.

So they're driving up to meet the parents, this deer jumps out and they hit it.

But it's alive and dying on the side of the road.

This freaks, visibly freaks Chris out.

And it's a great, great, because what we find out later in the film is this is, well, sorry, this is a doe, this is a female deer, and it's lying by the side of the road, dying.

It's very significant because we find out later that Chris' mother died on the side of the road and he did nothing.

After being hit by a car, right?

After being hit by a car, thanks FT.

Yes.

Yes, so that was a female deer, a doe, which I think sets up a song.

I was avoiding it.

Musical number.

Go ahead, you can join in anytime you want.

Ray, a drop of Golden Sun.

Thanks, FT.

Yes, you're welcome.

And then the film goes on, and then we see a second deer.

The second deer is a male deer, a buck.

And we see it when Chris is strapped into a chair in the so-called game room at Rose's parents' house.

So you remember that, FT.?

Of course.

It's a mounted deer on the wall.

It's a trophy.

You're a buck.

Right.

Thank you, FT.

It's a buck, which is back to the racism themes, is what white slave owners would call strong black.

Strong black males would be bucks.

But this deer we're talking about now, this mounted deer, this deer on the wall is kind of a funny joke because it brings to mind Chekhov's guns.

Ring any bells for you?

No bells.

I was waiting for the eyeballs to move back and forth.

Yeah, no.

Anton Chekhov talked about a gun on the wall in the first act will go off in the third.

And he talked about in play writing, script writing, anything you bring in, set something up and pay off, which was so brilliant because now we've got a dearest head on the wall that in the third act is what kills Rosa's father when Kosempa's Brad Whitford.

So a female deer in the first act transforms into a male deer in the third act also.

Is that what you're saying?

As a weapon.

Yeah, but there's also a real irony there because when we first meet Brad Whitford, what's one of his first pronouncements?

How much deer are taking over the world.

Yeah, how much he hates deer.

To eradicate them, which is scary.

Which is scary, as it's all jokey in a way, but it's not in those people.

It had overtones of supremacy, if you know what I mean.

To me, that's the way I took it.

But the irony that then he's wiped out by attacks at the deer is great.

What happens after they kill the deer, FT.?

A policeman arrives.

Yeah, there's this kind of taut scene where the policeman asks to see Chris' ID.

Chris takes it out, and it's a nice little detail.

Chris says, well, I've got a state ID.

Remember, he doesn't have a license because he doesn't drive, which again is part of the horror for him.

He's in this, he's totally a fish out of water.

He's got no way to escape.

He can't drive, which I guess is interesting when you think about the ending of the film, he does drive.

He runs over somebody in the process, but he is in fact driving.

But it's interesting because you were talking a minute ago about how you really want to watch this film multiple times and things reveal themselves.

So the first time you watch the film, maybe the second time, it's like, okay, Rose is his protector.

So you guys coming up from the city?

Yeah, yeah.

My parents are from the Lake Ponico area.

We're just heading up there for the weekend.

Sir, can I see your license, please?

Wait, why?

Yeah, I have state ID.

No, no, no.

He wasn't driving.

I didn't ask who was driving.

I asked to see his ID.

Yeah, why?

That doesn't make any sense.

Here.

No, no, no.

Fuck that.

You don't have to give him your ID because you haven't done anything wrong.

Maybe, maybe.

It's okay.

Come on.

Anytime there's an incident, we have every right to ask.

Well, shit.

Ma'am, the...

Everything all right, Ryan?

Yeah, I'm good.

Get that headlight fixed.

And that mirror.

Thank you, officer.

But the real read is, she can't let Chris show his ID to the copies.

Then there will be a paper trail, because she knows she's going to kill him.

So it's really brilliant.

Right, that is.

Yep.

She's a fake advocate.

Which is kind of the worst kind of advocate when you think about it.

Which is not an advocate.

They end up, they get to the parents' house, and it's really the setup when they meet the parents is so great.

Because again, it's satire, it's light.

We said we weren't going to talk about racism, but you get this micro-aggression, which continues throughout the so-called party, which is really an auction for Chris to be sold off to the highest bidder.

All this micro-aggression of Brad Whitford trying to say thing, and how he would have voted for Obama a third time.

And so it's a great, this great set up, which gets turned again on its head, because as the audience member, you're there with the black, hip to the black guy.

Yo.

It's embarrassing.

And of course it gets turned on its head, because as we find out, and then when the guests show up, and they start squeezing his arms, and the other ridiculous stuff.

Black people are in fashion, and ask Rose, is it true what they say about black people?

Which all seems like crazy micro-aggression.

And it turns out, it ain't micro-aggression.

It's because these people are shopping for a black dude.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, so it's pretty brilliant.

Absolutely.

Yes, and Rose's look at the entire time, it's interesting, it's so well done.

The actress, what's her name?

It's Alison Williams.

Yeah, yeah, because you can't read it.

Even the second time, it's like, she's giving the look as if you're being inappropriate as a person, or you're leaking the program here.

And it works on both levels.

It was great work.

Yeah, crazy, man, crazy.

By the way, the first shot where they appear, the house long shot of the mansion, in the foreground on the right is Walter, grandpa.

It's the first person you see of the family is the leader, the creator of Coagula.

Yes.

Watching, yes.

Did you want to talk about the tour at all, or should we move on?

Yeah, I do want to talk about when, what's the name of the Bradley Whitford?

What's the character's name?

Why am I have a block about this?

Dean, Dean.

Dean, when Dean wants to take, to bond Chris on a tour of the house, and the grounds.

What's interesting there is again, you see how the pre-planning of the setups and payoffs are being, here's where the setups are happening.

Number one, he shows him the photograph of the family.

And that's an interesting photograph because you go like, okay, family, you see it paid off later on during the infomercial or the orientation.

It's a screenshot from the orientation later on when Chris is about to be operated on.

And then Dean moves on to show Chris the photograph of his father, the track and field star who competed in Lost to Jesse Owens in 1936.

Yeah, and that's, sorry, FT., that's definitely a setup that gets paid off later.

We're gonna talk about that a little bit later, but definitely, that's a good, definitely setting something up.

Keep going on your tour.

Yeah, they passed the basement.

And what does it say about the basement?

Why it's sealed up?

Do you remember?

Yes, it's got black mold.

What is that?

It's got black mold down there.

Then in the kitchen, we get introduced actually to Georgina for the first time.

And we really see her there.

And it's an interesting line.

He says, Yes.

My mother loved her kitchens, so we keep a piece of her in here.

Yes.

That was crazy when I had a second view.

There she's standing, smiling, with that first weird, hypnotic, stupor-like look.

And Chris gives his little look like, hmm, this is the first, you know, for me, when I saw it, even the first time.

It's the first time we get some things off here.

Then they move on to the backyard, which is, he calls, the field of play, right?

And there we see...

Can I stop you there and ask you a question, FT.?

Yes.

So, I'm wondering about this.

So, yes, the field of play thing in the tour.

So, the room downstairs, which is closed off, is a game room.

On the tour, does he talk about the game room at all?

The game room at all?

No.

It's interesting.

With the field of play and the game room, it's kind of trying to mislead the audience, thinking what's really going on here is...

What was that famous film, The Something Game, where they hunt humans?

Do you remember that?

Yeah.

Recently, relatively speaking.

Yeah.

So it's almost like a misdirection by the director.

It is.

He's going to be hunted on the field of play.

I thought there was reference to the game room, but maybe there wasn't.

But anyway, keep going on the field of play.

The door is there.

There's the basement, he calls it there.

So in the field of play, we finally see grandpa and he's distant as Walter, the groundskeeper, and the second time, even the first time, he has a weird look.

And I was wondering the second time, like, wow, is he observing to advise?

You know, like, is this a good candidate?

You know, so, and then Dean says, you know, this whole cliche about, you know, affluent white people with black help, but he says something like, you know, we hired Walter and Georgina, not something like exactly, to help take care of my parents.

When they died, I couldn't bear to let them go.

You know, and I was like, wow.

Yeah, so that was an incredible sequence there, that scene about, you know, set up some payoffs.

You have anything about that, that hit you?

Yeah, the other thing I wanted to point out is this notion of the tour is a specific trope of horror films.

Right.

It's an expected, you know, and you can count Amityville Horror or whatever, but really the kind of famous one is Stanley Kubrick's The Shining, where Jack Torrance gets the tour, you know, they get the tour of the Overlook Hotel.

Let me show you my castle as well.

What?

No, just an old horror movie, you know, like tour of the castle.

And then let me take you into my laboratory.

You know, I was, is that Chris?

Is that Christopher Walken?

Oh, that was Bella Lugosi, do the Watusi.

What's going on with you after you make this big deal about doing Christopher Walken and you haven't done Christopher Walken once?

I keep waiting.

Wow.

Next.

I wanted to talk about the scene where Chris can't sleep.

He gets up, he goes outside, and he's standing out there, and we see and he sees from his point of view, Walter, the groundkeeper who turns out to be grandpa, just running straight at him.

And this is really significant because this is really what fueled the whole Coagula project.

Right.

And that is what you talked about.

The grandfather, the person who started the Coagula project, was going to be in the 36 Olympics, according to what Dean says.

But he was knocked out of the qualifying rounds by a black guy who turned out to be Jesse Owens.

And what Dean said, what Brad Whitford says about that is, he almost got over it.

Grandpa almost, almost got over it.

But as it turned out, he didn't get over it.

He starts this whole project that's to put white people in black bodies.

Hi, I'm Roman Armitage.

And if you're watching this, you're probably wondering what's going on.

There's no need to worry.

Let's take a walk.

You have been chosen because of the physical advantages.

You've enjoyed your entire lifetime.

With your natural gifts and our determination, we could both be part of something greater.

Something perfect.

The coagula procedure is a man-made miracle.

Our order has been developing it for many, many years.

And it wasn't until recently it was perfected by my own flesh and blood.

My family and I are honored to offer it as a service to members of our group.

Don't waste your strength, don't try to fight it.

You can't stop the inevitable.

And who knows?

Maybe one day you'll enjoy being members of the family.

And now, lo and behold, Grandpa is in this super-fast black dude's body, and he's taking it out for a spin, just going and running as fast as he can.

Right.

As he says, I'm sorry if I scared you last night.

I was exercising.

But you really should, you know, when the people see this, it is really something.

Chris goes to light up a cigarette.

Yeah.

Because remember, it was all that business about, we don't want you smoking because there'll be a bad vessel.

Yeah.

And in the distance, it's nighttime, and you can't see, and all of a sudden, you do see this locomotive.

I mean, this guy is booking.

And he heads right towards him, right?

Yes.

I mean, it's threatening as fuck.

He does it fake it to the left.

Yes.

He jogs off to the left.

It's, I was like, holy shit.

It's very significant, FT., that you use the word locomotive, because I wanted to talk about this.

And again, Jordan Peele, even though he was a comedian, just like Zelinsky was a comedian, they both gone on to much bigger things.

And Jordan Peele really studied his film history and shows it off here.

Because that technique of something coming at the camera has a very rich history.

It's, film theorists sometimes call it the attack on the camera.

Are you familiar with that, FT.?

No, I'm not.

So it started, probably the first instance of it was, I think it was 1896, the Lumiere brothers had a film, Arrival of Train at La Shoga, something like that.

Have you ever seen this film?

Of course, yeah.

Okay.

All right.

So this film famously had a train coming right at the camera and supposedly, that freaked out audiences so much that they screamed and fled the theater, because they thought the train was coming.

They ducked, yeah.

And apparently, there's a lot of urban legends around it, but it freaked people out.

And again, what this idea of the attack on the camera does is it really breaks down the wall between the audience and the film, the screen.

It's something coming right out of the screen.

And of course, you know, 3D, that was the whole 3D project, was to really bring, you know, have things break through the screen.

But this attack on the cinema, sorry, attack on the camera idea, there's so many examples of it.

I just would like to run through some famous examples of this attack on the camera.

The great train robbery.

There's a very famous shot where the outlaw points his gun at the camera and just unloads the gun.

And then, it's interesting because jumping way ahead, Scorsese paid an homage to that in the final scene in Goodfellas is Pesci pointing his gun at the camera, firing.

And when you watch it, it's a complete homage to great train robbery.

But the person who really loved the director, who really loved this attack on the camera, can you name the director I'm thinking of, FT.?

Ziga Vertov.

That was not the one I was thinking of.

Do you have examples from Vertov?

Do you want to talk about?

No, it just happens.

I'm the man with the movie camera, but we'll move on.

Yeah, so I was going to say Hitchcock goes back to that again and again, most famously in North by Northwest with the crop duster coming at Cary Grant, but really coming right at the camera.

Bird, the birds.

There's so many scenes where the birds, I think there's even a shot in The Birds where, does the bird come right, or maybe it's a pane of glass where it smashes the glass, a window in a school room, I think.

Right.

And so the bird is coming right at the camera, and the glass smashes.

Which makes it the impact and more intense.

Yeah.

And then of course breaks the lens.

Yes.

And of course, Psycho, the knife thrusting right at the camera lens.

And there's tons of, sorry, Jaws, the shark coming right at the camera.

And again, good on Jordan Peele, you know, knowing his cinema history, using the cinematic devices, and using it to great effect.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Let me ask you a question, then.

Okay.

What happens after that?

Well, he turns around, and the light goes on, and he sees Georgina, Upstairs.

Grandma, up in the window, and he thinks she's seen him.

So he's like, fuck, I'm busted.

But she's very menacing and weird, doing this weird thing with her.

And then he realizes she's looking at her teeth in the reflection of the window and is not looking at him.

And she turns off the light and turns around.

I think she's looking in a mirror.

She's adjusting her hair.

No, the mirror is the window.

I'm not sure about that, but either way, she's looking at herself.

Yes.

Right?

And she seems to be like, in the middle of the night, it was so odd, you know, like she was fixing, I felt she was like fixing her wig, you know, or just checking her appearance.

Right.

You know how it is at night.

If if your lights are on inside, you can't see it.

You see a reflection.

You don't see outside.

So Chris thinks she's looking at him.

She's looking at a reflection in the in the glass.

And it is odd because it's the middle of the night.

But Catherine Keener says, Missy, when when Chris goes inside, said, Yeah, they they get up really early because they're obsessive compulsives.

Right.

Which, of course, then leads Chris to go in to get, unfortunately, gets trapped by Missy and hypnotized.

Why don't we jump?

Because we keep moving on.

Why don't we move to the ending?

Sure.

What was your how?

Again, we've talked many times how endings are.

Yes.

Difficult and important.

The difficult thing yet are really what makes or breaks a film, how the audience walks out of the theater.

How did you feel about the ending, FT.?

In your own words.

I wish I could use other words in my own words or read something.

The ending, yes, here's another case where things that Jordan Peele set up are now paid off, or at least referenced.

There's a remark early on.

Chris goes, I don't want to be chased out of the front door with a shotgun, talking about going to a white people's house.

And who comes into the front door, out of the front door with a shotgun?

It's Rose.

Yes.

You know, there's that.

Chris, you talked about him driving and all that.

What happens to him?

He hits Georgina.

Yes.

Now, he in his, you know, instead of escaping, his guilt, his, you know, he's going to redeem himself, you know, and he grabs her and, you know, picks her up and takes her in the car and presumably think of going to the ER.

She then sort of freaks out and says, you ruined my house, beats him.

The car crashes.

Yes.

Right.

So then there's all the, the violence there.

You know, grandpa comes and, you know, Riddle Ants shoots himself as we know, blah, blah, blah.

But the important thing that I found was that Chris, after all this violence, right, that he can't kill Rose yet, right?

Right.

And the violence is for a good reason, you know, self-preservation.

Anyhow, the point is, when that cop car comes, when you see the lights.

Yes.

I did, I went, ah, Jesus, no.

I groaned, you know, I was just like, and Chris immediately, what does he do?

Ken, he gets up, puts his hands up.

Right.

Right?

Cause that's the black experience with, you know, officers of the law.

Right.

And then of course, I think what you're going to start talking about is it leads to the somewhat let down ending of them in the car, you know.

That's exactly what I'm going to talk about, but that was a lucky guess on your part.

No, it wasn't.

So, it's weird, it's weird, FT.

I remembered, this was my second watch of this film.

I'd seen it a year ago, so not that long ago, but my memory of the ending was a cop car pulled up and he was caught seemingly red handed, no way to talk yourself out of that.

Right.

Which, so that was what I remembered.

Wow.

And then when I saw this ending, where it's not a cop, but it's Rod and it's a happy ending.

Right.

I was let down.

And I started thinking it would have been better to end it the way I had imagined it.

And there's a history here because there's an alternative ending that was shot.

Are you aware of it, FT.?

I am not.

And so what's interesting is I actually think, so here's something, you know, just to let people, open the kimono, let people inside the curtain.

I hate that image.

I always think my ideas are best.

You sure do.

But actually, I think when I was reading the way Jordan Peele had shot it, I liked his ending even better than the one.

Again, what I thought happened was the cop pulled up, as you said, he raises his hand.

You could have ended it right there.

Yes.

Yeah.

And you know what-

Ambiguous ending.

I hate those though.

Well, it's not really so ambiguous because you know, what else is going to happen?

A black guy with all these people dead around is he-

Right.

Sorry, FT.

FT is-

Rose is still alive.

So Rose is going to say-

Oh, that's right.

Yeah, Rose is going to say-

She even says, help.

Yeah, right.

So it's not ambiguous, really.

And I thought-

You're right.

And I thought that was a great ending.

The ending that was cut was a cop car that pulled up, and then there's an additional scene that follows.

And that additional scene is Rod visiting Chris in a maximum security prison.

No way.

Yeah, in one of those prisoner phone booths.

And Rod says, dude, I've been working on the case, but you've got to give me more information.

Who are the names?

Who are the people?

Blah, blah, blah.

And Chris just says, you know, I can't remember.

It doesn't matter.

And-

You're kidding me, right?

No, no, and-

Ah, that's it.

And I think Chris says, or what's implied is what's, Chris does say, I stopped it.

Interesting.

So Chris feels, you know, by killing this, he stopped the whole thing.

And again, given, you know, again, the whole examination of racism, there's no way the system is gonna spring me, Rod, there's no way I'm gonna get out of this situation.

I'm not even trying, but I ended it.

And, How about that?

And I think that would have been a better ending.

What I don't understand, FT., is the explanation is Jordan Peele says, when he wrote that ending, it was during the Obama year, you know, the post-racial lie, and that was what was driving the project.

And that was the ending.

The one I just described.

But he said, then by the time, you know, the film was being shot and wrapped up.

Too much of a bummer.

Trump had gotten, Trump had gotten elected, and therefore, he felt like it should go with this other ending.

I don't understand the logic of why Trump getting elected makes him want to change the ending and have a happy ending with Rob.

Hope, hope, hope.

That's the only thing I can think of.

Yeah, but hope is Obama.

Hope is Obama.

Well, but you keep it alive.

I mean, I can understand it.

I mean, I didn't, it was silly.

It was a little bit silly, but it's interesting, Ken, because my whole question all along was, what you said about the alternative ending, get back to the coagula.

That's alchemy.

This is a whole alchemy thing about solve at coagula, right?

You dissolve and then you rebuild, you know, based on that.

The Knights of the Templar.

Yes.

And Jung talks about this a lot.

And the hero's journey is one of some sort of spiritual death and a rebirth.

So I was going, here you have Chris, who was a kind, accepting, open human being, put through this trial, so much so that he has to violently kill three, four people, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, he goes berserk to save himself.

And so I kept on asking, like, so what was the hero's journey here?

And I was scratching my head saying, like, what?

He became a more violent person.

He's going to become, you know, a chauvinist.

I got only hang around with, you know, my people because I can't trust white people.

Or then I started thinking, is the hero the person that goes through this kind of a trial and says, I am going to remain the same?

I'm still going to be an open person.

Isn't that truly the heroic thing?

But then, when you said this alternative ending, the hero's journey was, I stopped it.

Yes.

Right?

It's a better ending.

Okay, so you're in a rare agreement with me that you like the deleted ending better, too.

The original ending.

Yes, I would have changed it in some ways, but I don't know how, or in the spot here, but yes, they have the point.

You would have made it a musical number.

Of course.

You know, of course.

No, I wouldn't.

It just seemed, yes, I think it's more significant.

It's more significant.

Plus, it fits with my old business of what was puzzling me at the end.

What's the hero's journey here?

Right.

You know, how was he rebuilt, spiritually reborn?

And sorry, for those who haven't studied this stuff, the hero's journey is Joseph Campbell.

Hero with a thousand faces.

And then, of course, and was started working on a second book, but then founded a soup company.

Speaking of a thousand faces, why don't we talk about some of the actors in Get Out, FT.

Daniel Kaluwa played Chris, interestingly.

For some reason, I'm constantly amazed by British actors.

Me, too.

It's just always amazing to me when you watch TV shows and then you find out an actor is British and you had no idea.

Daniel Kaluwa is British, did not sound like it in Get Out.

And what did you think of Daniel Kaluwa's performance, FT.?

It was brilliant.

It was so natural.

It was so relaxed.

He didn't pop out intense when he had to be friendly.

It was great.

The colors were great.

What he showed, emotional work was incredible.

Yes.

How about you?

100% agreement there, FT.

I was, his performance was so strong in the moments, in the, strapped in the chair with the tears.

I was really questioning whether the tears were CGI.

These, there were, you know, the amount, the tier, the single tier, the amount of, and I, I was really thinking it was CGI, and then reading an interview with Jordan Peele when he was doing his auditions, Kaluah came in, and because of his ability to cry, Jordan Peele decided to cast him on the spot.

So I think the tears might have been all him, and just phenomenal.

Oh yeah, I mean, his eyes were welling.

I mean, they were like, oh my, and bloodshot during the hypnosis scenes, you know, there was that blood, so you know, they went through multiple takes for that, you know.

Yeah, that was intense.

Jesus, you know.

Why don't we turn to Allison Williams, who played the part of Rose, but why don't we start out with a trivia question?

I apologize, FT., I have not asked you a trivia question yet in this show.

And I was doing it passively, because you haven't done Christopher Walken once.

Wow.

Trivia question for you, FT.

Who is Allison Williams' father?

Andy Williams.

No.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Somebody, not somebody Williams.

That's the trick, right?

William Shatner.

No.

Agnes Moorhead.

No, her father is Brian Williams.

I don't know who that is.

I don't know.

It's just some guy named Brian.

No, Brian Williams is the longtime NBC anchorman, Brian Williams.

How about that?

What do you think about her work?

I, well, I'm going to presume to know what you're going to say about Amanda Williams, which is you're going to say, Amanda Williams, it was like, get me an Amanda Pete type.

No, it's not.

Nice try.

She is very reminiscent of a young Amanda Pete, didn't you think?

I know, but, yeah.

Of course, the question becomes, do you remember any performances of Amanda Pete?

And I'll say no.

So I can't, I should answer, I don't know.

Okay, you did, you did.

And that's fair.

So what did, I can talk more about what I thought of her.

What did you, what's your take on her performance?

My take on her was, it was the one weakness of the script, to be honest with you.

Of the part, the script was weak, her character?

Her character was, the sudden transformation was so classic.

What I would now say is B-movie horror, that when she changes, she changes at the point on the stairs where she goes, you know, I can't give you the keys, babe.

She's herself with Chris, and then she becomes, and I kept on asking, did they have to re-hypnotize her?

Because she acts, what do you call it, entranced, she's in a trance, you know, and she did that well, I mean, to be like, you know, in this trance, the way she talks to Rod on the phone.

Yo, um, hey, what up?

Rose, it's, um, it's me, Rod.

Hi.

Where's Chris?

He left two days ago.

He left?

Yeah, he got all paranoid, and then he freaked out on me.

And then he just got in a cab and left his phone.

Wait, you haven't seen him?

Oh, he never came back here.

Oh, my God.

Look, look, I've been calling his phone a bunch of times.

Matter of fact, I went to the police.

What did you say?

I just said he was missing.

Oh, good, good.

Let me ask you something.

What cab company did he, uh, did he use to leave?

Oh, gosh, I don't know.

I guess maybe a local one, or I guess he could have called an Uber.

Um, wait, I am so confused.

Oh, you confused?

Oh, okay.

Confused.

You know something?

Me too.

Could you hold on one second?

Okay.

Okay, hold on.

You lying bitch.

She is lying like a motherf— I know that— Ooh, that TSA shit tingles.

This motherfucker's lying.

Why would she have to be hypnotized?

She was part of the whole deal.

I mean, so it confused me.

And her performance was fine.

It's what the character arc there confused me.

The sudden change.

As I said, B movie horror.

Well, I wanted to talk about the transformation, but I'm questioning why you think that's a weakness of the script.

It's great.

She has to be the Rose, the attractive, lovely, fly trapping Rose, black widow Rose.

But when the gig's up, she don't have to be that anymore.

She can just be the...

So I think what we've seen is for the whole film, it's the fake Rose, the Rose that's got to be out there to trap men.

When she doesn't have to do that anymore, she switches that right off.

Okay, yeah, it just didn't feel in character.

I mean, nobody else did.

It wasn't in character.

Nobody else did.

Nobody else did.

I had no problem with that switching, the switching off of her fake character, and I really liked the way she pulled that switch off as scripted, mostly because of her physical gifts.

I mean, the transformation when you see then, after she doesn't give Chris the keys, we see her up in the, you talked about the Froot Loops scene, her hair is back, she looks like a different, she's much less attractive, and almost looks like a different person.

And I thought that was pretty remarkable, good on the hair and makeup people.

But I also think it's part of her physical gifts, because I've seen some pictures of her where she, depending on, she can look very different in different pictures.

Enough talk about Alison Williams and her look, why don't we talk about Brad Whitford and his look, FT., your take.

I have nothing to say about his look.

He was, you know, what show was he in?

Oh, Wes Wing.

I just couldn't remember.

Yeah, he seemed, you know, he's a guy that looks like Brad Whitford.

I know you're going to hate that, but it just felt like, you know, his cast, his type.

Yeah, well, we talked in the last podcast, which was the film Collateral.

I made a strong argument that the baggage that Tom Cruise brought to the role was very helpful for that movie.

I'm going to argue the same thing here.

The baggage that Brad Whitford brings to this film, to this part, really helps the film.

He's, of course, as you remembered late in the game here, FT., he hasn't done much else besides be Josh Lyman on The West Wing, where he was a bleeding heart liberal.

So when you see him in this film, he brings that right to the party as a bleeding heart liberal.

So I thought that was helpful, and I thought he was very good in the part.

And I think part of the, we talked before about how, trying to figure out why was this film the one that younger audiences flock to.

I think a lot of it is, if you know young people, they love the embarrassing dad, of which-

Yes, the lovable, embarrassing dad.

Of which I am not one, just to go on the record.

I am not an embarrassing dad.

Yes, you are.

But so, Brad Whitford, especially in the opening scenes, is clearly the embarrassing dad.

And I did not see this film in a theater.

I wish I had seen it in a theater.

I think as good as this film plays at home, I think seeing it in a packed theater with an audience reaction would really add to the experience.

And so, I'm sure those people, when Brad Whitford was being the embarrassing dad, before the audience knew exactly what the horror was all about, they were just giggling along at the embarrassing dad jokes.

I think like my experience with ET when only the kids laughed at a joke, so maybe the millennials would be giggling, you know.

Right.

I didn't know you knew ET.

I saw it in the theater.

Oh, I thought you said your experience with ET.

I thought you knew ET.

No, no.

But it was the movie ET., you know, the movie.

When the script had a joke that nobody else left except all the kids in the front rows.

You know, the kids under 10 years old were laughing their asses off.

And I was going like, what the hell are they laughing at?

They missed it, you know.

Anyhow, do you have anything to say about Katherine Keener?

Thank you for lifting some of the hosting duties off my plate.

You're getting weary.

How did that feel to be weary?

You were good, FT.

I'm doing well.

You should be a host, FT.

That was well done.

Right?

Yeah.

Yes.

I'd like to go on record on this podcast and nominate Katherine Keener for a lifetime achievement award as the best supporting actress.

Your thought, FT.?

Good one.

Good one.

Good one.

Yes.

You agree?

Well, maybe.

I don't know.

You sprung this one.

She's supporting in being John Malkovich.

She's supporting.

She's supporting.

She was always supporting.

Yes, she was always supporting.

And she's always fantastic.

You'd probably say, well, she's always playing a Katherine Keener type.

And again, I would say that works for this film because the Katherine Keener type, you don't think of her as someone who's participating in ritualized murder.

Right.

And I did bring up John Malkovich, and she plays a sort of airhead-y, business-y user type there.

So there's a different color there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, she was good.

Do we forget anybody in the cast that should be called out?

Anybody?

Yes, I was going to use a colloquial term, a shout-out to Betty Gabriel, who plays Georgina.

And the scene in particular is in the bedroom where Chris confronts her.

Or she comes to admit that, yes, she did unplug the phone.

I lifted your cellular phone to wipe down the dresser, and it accidentally came undone.

Yeah, I-

Rather than meddle with it further, I lifted that way.

How foolish of me.

I wasn't trying to snitch.

Snitch?

Rat you out.

Tattletale?

Yeah.

Oh, don't you worry about that.

I can assure you, I don't answer to anyone.

Right.

All I know is sometimes, if there's too many white people, I get nervous, you know?

No.

No.

No.

No.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

The Ommertages are so good to us.

They treat us like family.

I urge everybody to watch us.

What she does there, the work, is that, no, it is incredible.

Yeah, I found it to be a bravura scene in the entire movie.

A brava to the woman.

Yes, the scene for people to go look at it when she admits to unplugging Chris' phone, which I think is apropos, I think our audience probably needs to go plug in their phone because the podcast has gone on for a while.

Why don't we wrap it up, FT.?

I'm gonna unplug myself, pretend I'm a phone.

Pretend you're Alison Williams or Rose.

How did you feel about doing a contemporary film, FT.?

Wonderful.

I did.

I felt like...

I feel younger.

I think I'm having hair growing on my head.

I can feel it.

All right, FT., on that note, let's wrap it up.

Thank everybody.

Thank everybody for listening.

Please make sure you're following our podcast.

Please like it.

Even if you don't like it, please visit our website.

Where's that website again, FT.?

That's at theyshootfilms.com.

Thanks, FT.

So theyshootfilms.com.

Have a good one, FT.

You have a good one too, Ken.

And you're welcome.

They Shoot Films is a production of Film Symposium West.

Produced by Anne-Marie De Palma, studio announcer Roy Blumenfeld.