Lost in America

You're listening to They Shoot Films with Ken Mercer and FT.

Kosempa.

Hey there, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of They Shoot Films, the podcast, where we take a look at the movies that matter.

My name is Ken Mercer, and I'm here, as always, with the great FT.

Kosempa.

How are you today, FT.?

Ken, I found myself feeling pretty well.

How about you?

My most fervent wish is that one day I will be able to start the podcast by saying I'm good too, but it seems like every podcast we've done, this is podcast number 16, and if you're listening for the first time, hit subscribe, because you're going to want to hear all the travails and pain and suffering I've gone through in the previous 15 episodes of They Shoot Films, but I think we got to, I got to stop doing this podcast, FT., because it's like I'm doing fine, I'm doing fine, and then it comes around to the podcast, and boom, I'm not doing, boom, not doing fine.

Jeez, what's going on now, buddy?

I thought it would be good to get some exercise yesterday.

I went out for a bike ride, and I crashed.

Jesus.

And I am now, I look like Christopher Lee in The Mummy.

I'm just completely bandaged up.

Christopher Lee in The Mummy?

Yes, the Hammer Horror film, The Mummy, Christopher Lee.

Okay.

Was Lon Chaney in the original?

Who knows?

He's under the bandages.

I think Lon Chaney.

So the original was like 39 or something, right?

I don't know.

Earlier, maybe.

Yeah.

There's a creek.

Probably a silent version, too.

I probably look like him as well.

It's really the bandages, not so much the facial hair.

Exactly.

But yeah, so I went down pretty hard.

Some guy was riding too fast right at me and hit the brakes on some gravel sand, dirt and went right down.

So I've got a question for UFT that's relevant to this episode's film, which is the 1985 film written and directed by Albert Brooks, writing with Monica Johnson.

And the film is Lost in America.

And so here's my question, FT., if you witnessed my bicycle accident in which I hit the brakes and went down and ripped off most of my skin on probably about a third of my body, if you were witnessing that in close up, would you think it was comedy or tragedy?

I wouldn't laugh, so that must make it tragedy.

Okay, and if you witnessed it in a wide shot, would you think it was comedy or tragedy?

A long shot.

Same thing.

I don't laugh at those things.

Tragedy, not funny.

You're a good friend, FT.

I try.

Yeah, so that goes against Charlie Chaplin's thoughts on comedy.

Chaplin famously said, life is a tragedy when it's seen in close up, but comedy in a long shot.

You're hearing that quote for the first time?

Yeah.

I've never heard that one.

It's relevant to the discussion we have to have about this film, Lost in America.

This film is interesting because there's so many comedies, and so many, you could call this a road comedy, I think pretty easily.

Usually when you look at the road comedies, they're based on that same idea.

Yeah.

Sorry, before we get to it, another famous quote along these lines is, comedy is tragedy plus time.

Are you familiar with that quote?

I am.

Okay.

Who said that one?

You did.

In my experience, you're the one who said that.

Yes.

Maybe it's Woody Allen though, wasn't it?

Well, it's in Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Alan Audil says that line when he's doing the documentary.

Woody Allen is filming the documentary of Alan Alda.

And he says it and then goes on to talks about, you know, back when Lincoln was shot, you couldn't joke about it, you know, you couldn't even talk about the play, but now you can joke about it.

But it's interesting.

So I thought it was Woody saying, you know, wrote it in there, but apparently there's a long history of that thought going through comedy.

And I think it's actually Steve Allen was actually the first person who had that formulation.

Comedy is tragedy plus time.

If somebody falls down in a close up, it's tragedy.

If somebody falls down in a wide shot, it's comedy.

Coming back to this film, Lost in America, again, if you look at other road movies, road comedies, Planes, Trains and Automobiles, Little Miss Sunshine, there's an interesting film, very similar to this one that Vincent Minnelli did, called The Long, Long Trailer.

Familiar with that one, FT.?

I sure am.

Are you?

Yeah, Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, 1953, shot in beautiful color, and they went to Yosemite.

I mean, you know, it's some nice scenery.

And did they really go on location for that one?

It looked it, it looked it.

Really?

Maybe the second unit, second unit probably, you know.

Yeah, but you know, interesting, because Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, her husband in the movie, and in real life too, correct?

Yes.

Yeah, by a motor home, just like the characters in Lost in America, by a trailer, so very analogous.

So these road films, Planes, Trains and Automobiles, the John Hughes movie, The Out of Towners with Jack Lemmon, The Long Long Trailer, which we just talked about, National Lampoon's Vacation, those movies, I'd be hard, you know, they're befallen by an unfortunate series of events.

But I would hesitate to call them tragedies.

Where in this film, Lost in America, I mean, I think what happens to the characters, giving up everything to drive across America with their nest egg of $145,000 and then immediately losing all the money is pretty close to a Greek tragedy, wouldn't you say?

More than just an unfortunate little event on the road.

You're right.

I never thought of it.

I just thought it was ridiculous, but you're right.

That is a tragic event, to lose all the money.

Yes.

Yeah.

It inspires pity and terror, pity and fear.

Yeah.

And according to the definitions of tragedy, the characters bring about their own downfall.

So it really is tragedy that Albert Brooks is trying to turn into comedy and we shall discuss in this episode how much we think he succeeded in that endeavor.

Yes.

You know, we shall.

So another quote about a comedy, which this, FT., this is our 16th episode.

We've never done a comedy before.

This is our first comedy.

Yes.

And maybe our last.

Never know.

And, you know, as we discuss how successful Albert Brooks was with this film, I think there's another important quote that is not attributed to anybody, but is said by most people who have dealt in the minds of tragedy.

I'm sorry, the minds of comedy.

And that is, there's nothing harder than being funny on demand.

You know, I think all of us can be funny once in a while, you know?

Yes.

But it's really hard when it's your job and you have to be funny, which is why I think so many white comedians are usually drug addicts or dead.

You know, dead or, you know, like they're, you know, end up igniting themselves while they're free-basing.

Nuts.

Generally unhappy people.

Comedy is tough.

And why don't we start out, you always seem to enjoy when the American Film Institute does lists of the top 100 films, because you enjoy trying to rank them.

You're always a little bit confused about, you know, what's one, what's 100.

But the AFI, American Film Institute, did do a list of the 100 funniest American comedies.

Do you think Lost in America made that list, FT.?

I do.

You do?

Yes.

Oh, okay.

It's interesting that you say that, because it's, and we're going to talk, I mean, I love this film and we're going to, but it is so dry and kind of so sophisticated, as is most of Albert Brooks' work.

You really think it made the AFI top 100 American comedies list?

That's what I said.

You give me the...

No, but I'm giving you...

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

No, I'm giving you a second chance to save face here.

Yes, I still, I'm going to insist.

Really?

Yeah, am I wrong?

No, you're right.

Trying to get me to be wishy washy.

I always take more pleasure when you're wrong.

I know you do, sadist.

Yeah.

Tragedy.

So it was number 84 on the American...

Why don't you ask me the number?

Because that gets tiresome.

I've gotten a lot of comments from people.

But by the way, if you have a comment about They Shoot Films podcast, go to our website.

You can leave a voicemail.

You can send us a comment and say things like, stop asking Frank what numbers things are in West.

Are you talking to me here?

Should I?

No.

I thought I could say stuff here.

Or should I go to the website and say stuff?

I was kidding.

Anyhow, see comedy on demand doesn't work.

Next.

Nice try.

We know the comments that come in, which are clearly yours, you know, the stuff about Frank should talk more, or Frank, why doesn't Frank host one of the shows?

Oh, no, no, that's not for me.

That's you.

FT., what do you think is the AFI Top 100 American comedies?

What do you think was rated rank number one?

And again, number one would be the top ranked film.

Thanks for clarification there.

Once again, I don't know, some stupid thing.

Ooh, you're very close.

You got the first word right, you got the first word right.

Really?

Wait, stupid and?

No, you said some something.

Some kind of stupidity.

No, what?

Tell me.

Well, you got it.

Dumb and Dumber's in the top 10, I'll bet.

No, don't keep doing this.

You got it.

Some, some something, some.

Some like it hot.

Oh, really?

Some.

Okay.

That's a comedy, right?

That's a comedy.

I know, you know, I know.

And we've known each other for a long time and you've got a very thick skin.

You don't take offense when I call you an idiot.

You don't take offense when I call you a savant, but should I dare to call you an idiot savant, you get very upset.

But clearly that was an idiot savant material because you had some like it hot.

It was like coming out of you.

I didn't have it.

I had some, some Enchanted Evening got in my head and something happened on the way to the forum, which I knew wouldn't be possibly number one.

So I had interference, interference, my friend.

And what do you think of the choice of some like it hot being number one?

Whatever these lists.

I have no opinion.

Okay.

Well, that's very enlightened of you, but I have a sense the number two choice will set you to raving.

Yes.

What is it?

And remember when I ask you this, remember you say you don't care about these lists.

You know, you can go either way.

What do you think the number two film is?

I have no idea.

Hit me.

Tootsie.

Huh.

Very, very adult of you, FT.

I expected you to go nuts on that one.

Number three, which I don't get is Doctor Strangelove.

Yeah.

Well, there's comedy in there.

Yeah, but I just would not.

You know, if you ask me rank your top comedies, I would go right past that one.

I wouldn't pick Some Like It Hotty.

I mean, I much prefer the apartment to Some Like It Hot.

What about you?

Indifferent.

Number four is Annie Hall.

Okay, I can see that.

Number five is Duck Soup.

Which I didn't find funny, but that's okay.

It's pretty.

So you don't like the Marx brothers?

I do like the Marx brothers.

You just don't like Duck Soup?

I like the Coconuts, actually, the earliest one, you know.

Okay, breezing right along there.

Why don't we, FT., to get things rolling, just back up and go over Albert Brooks' career leading up to Lost in America.

How do you feel about doing that?

It's super duper.

I think there's some interesting bits there.

Yeah.

So you obviously know Albert Brooks.

His birth name is what, FT.?

Heisenberg.

No, Albert Einstein.

Yes.

So he was born Albert Einstein.

Why did he change it?

Well, it's interesting because his father was Harry Einstein, who was a comedian.

And I don't know if you're aware of this.

Do you know how Albert Brooks' father died at a young age and Albert was young.

Do you know how Harry Einstein, Albert Brooks' father died, FT.?

Was it a funny situation?

Yes.

It was?

Yeah.

Fell on a manhole because he avoided the banana peel?

No.

Which is a chaplain example.

How did he die?

So he was, and it's relevant to what we were just talking about, he died on stage at a Friars Club roast of Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball, the stars of the long, long trailer, which maybe somehow Freud would find it interesting that Albert Brooks then did a movie about the long, long, you know, about a trailer or any psychologist, not just Freud.

Young even would.

Yes.

Yeah.

So he died on stage.

Yeah.

On stage.

What, in the middle of an act or just on stage?

I don't know if he was on mic at the time, but it was a Friars Club roast and he was on stage and he died on stage.

His high school friend, Albert Brooks' high school friend was Rob Reiner and Carl Reiner became kind of a surrogate father to Albert Brooks, the very funny Carl Reiner.

Interesting.

Carl Reiner once told Johnny Carson that Albert Brooks as a child was the funniest person he knew.

Wow.

When Albert Brooks was just a kid.

But coming back to the Brooks family, so you got the name right, we took care of the father.

So he's got two older brothers, the next oldest brother, the next older from him.

And again, if we were ranking it, the number two brother on the way to number one, would be Bob Einstein.

Are you familiar with Bob Einstein?

First Baseman?

No.

No.

See, I'm going to say yes, you're familiar with him, you're going to stop saying that, no I'm not.

A couple of things about Bob.

Bob Einstein was a famous comedian.

He was the character of Super Dave Osborne, but he also played another character on a long running television, cable television comedy show, which I know you're familiar with.

Larry David?

Yep.

So you knew it.

Really?

Yeah, there you go.

That was a guess.

That was a guess.

So Bob Einstein played Marty Funkhouser on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Very funny.

Oh my God.

And the Super Dave Osborne thing, it was kind of like Evil Canevil.

He would do stunts, comedic stunts.

So wait, that's Albert Brooks' brother.

His second oldest brother.

The brother older than him.

He's a shoe salesman in True Amaz, which I was watching.

I believe he's a shoe salesman in that movie.

And I'm going, who is that guy?

Yeah, well now, there you go.

There you go.

You can stop tossing and turning, trying to figure out who it is.

And then the oldest brother, the number one brother or the number three brother, depending on how you like to rank things, what would his name be, FT.?

Donnie Einstein.

Cliff Einstein.

Clifford Einstein.

Yes.

Nice.

Yes.

And what did he do?

He's a writer.

No, he was the head of an ad agency in LA.

So again, maybe a psychiatrist other than Freud would somehow say, hmm, movie about a trailer and the ad agency.

Advertising guy.

And the agency that Albert Brooks works at, David, is somewhat reminiscent of Daily and Associates, the agency that Cliff Einstein founded in LA.

Huh, how about that?

It's a small world.

After all.

So, so Albert Brooks, again, dubbed by Carl Reiner as the funniest person he knows as a child, went into stand up comedy and was, was very successful as a stand up comic.

And he would, he was on these big tours, opening up for the, for like rock star, you know, the early 70s, late 60s.

He would be the warm up act at these big rock shows.

He was very successful.

But he wanted to do something else.

What was that FT.?

Jet Ski.

Guess again.

Make a motion picture.

Yeah.

Well, no, he, he wanted to act.

He wanted to be an actor.

Oh, right.

Okay.

And he started to get, he started to get roles on TV shows, but they were pretty sporadic.

And then he got a big, kind of a big, you know, a breakthrough role in a, in a film.

Can you tell us what that is, FT.?

That's the one in the news, News Something.

No, that came later.

What was it?

What was his first big motion picture?

I don't know.

Well, you do know, you do know, but I, you hate it.

I love when you say you do know and I do not know.

He was Tom, the, the Palatine for President campaign worker in Marty Scorsese's Taxi Driver.

No, I didn't know it, but I do, you know, it wasn't available.

Can I say it right?

You knew it, you just could not access the information in your brain.

Couldn't access.

Yes.

Take a look inside F.T.'s brain, blow the sweep away the dust and you see just all these, these file cabinets and somewhere in the file cabinet under, under, under Albert Brooks acting roles.

If you had opened that file cabinet was, was, was a taxi driver.

That's a manila folder on the floor, in the toilet, in the bathroom.

And it was, it was actually in that film, it was, which had obviously Robert De Niro was pretty good in that film, didn't you think?

Yes, he was.

Harvey Keitel was pretty good in that film, didn't you think?

Decent.

Jodie Foster.

I like Sybil Shepherd.

Yeah.

So in a cast of standouts, Albert Brooks managed to acquit himself pretty well.

Maybe Anne-Marie can plug in just a very quick scene where the campaign buttons, he's on the phone dealing with the campaign buttons that have the wrong italic underlined phrase.

Do you remember that?

I do not.

Anne-Marie, plug that in and refresh F.T.'s.

I'm surprised it's not a business card, rather than in joke.

It's not good.

Well, you delivered two boxes.

I think it's a total of 5,000 campaign buttons.

Now, all the ones we have before and our slogan is, We are the people and ours underline.

These new buttons have we underline.

That reads, we are the people.

Well, I think there's a difference.

We are the people is not the same as we are the people.

That's not right.

Look, we'll make it real simple.

We don't pay for the buttons.

We throw the buttons away.

All right.

FT., let me ask you a question if I may.

Yes.

Yes.

OK, and I want to I want a serious answer because after all, there's nothing harder than being funny.

Harder than being funny on demand.

Funny answer.

Yes.

OK.

Do you think you could have been or could be now a stand up comedian?

Have you been?

Have you ever been?

It's like a communist.

I mean, no.

Why?

Because I'm not fun.

Well, that's not on demand.

It's not improvised.

Right.

It's a script.

It's a script.

Yes.

I'm uncomfortable in front of large and small crowds.

Yeah.

I'm uncomfortable in front of you, obviously.

You know what I mean?

So, you know.

No.

How about you, Ken?

I take my wife.

Yeah.

We're going to get there.

And hold on to that thought.

Hold on to that thought, FT.

That gem.

I don't.

I don't.

Well, let me say this.

And this is what I was trying.

Let me just cut to the chase.

I can think, you know, there's tough jobs.

You know, I would hate to be a janitor having to clean bathroom.

You know, there's a lot of jobs I wouldn't want.

Those guys who do crawl space cleanups.

I would hate doing that or even add a clean up.

Skyscraper builders, you know, still workers at the top of a bridge.

Yeah.

But I think stand up comedians kind of up there because you got, even if you're good, you know, even if the material is good, you know, it can be brutal.

Yes.

And even if the material is good, it just, I don't know.

I think, you know, there's just no where to hide.

You know, you're playing a musician in a band, you've got, you know, you've got other people playing around, you know, but standing up there alone on a stage, very, you know, comedy clubs are always so, the tables are so closely packed to the stage and such a close relationship with an audience who even, and here's the thing that, and we're going to get into it with Lost in America.

Let's say even, which FT., I think if you could get over your fear of crowds, and as I've told you, don't worry, nobody listens to this podcast.

Don't be, don't get nervous.

You know, even if your material is good, which I know, you know, Albert Brooks' material was really, really good.

Because he did a lot of stand up on The Tonight Show.

You know, you're, and again, I'm from Jersey, so I can say that.

You know, you're in a club in New York, and you've got these kids driving in from Jersey, and you're doing sophisticated humor, and they're expecting, take my wife, please.

Or Dick Joes.

Or Dick Joes.

Aristocrats.

Yeah.

The aristocrats, yes.

So I think it's a wise choice that you did not go into stand up comedy, even though I think you're a funny man.

You're a funny man.

No, you're a funny man.

What do you mean funny?

You're funnier.

So speaking of that, when you were talking about comedies, tragedy, plus time, who was that fellow that tried to do the, make a joke about World Trade Center?

Oh, I don't know.

Have you ever seen that clip?

And it's in the movie about the aristocrat joke, you know, that sick pornographic joke.

Talk about that.

Because you're saying the aristocrats, and again, the audience might not know what you're referring to.

It's nothing but a bunch of, you know, it's an improvised joke about absolutely filthy, dirty, pornographic things, and it ends up with the line, well, that's the aristocrats, you know, and it's a classic, ridiculous nothing joke, but every version differs.

I urge you to look at the movie.

It's pretty disgusting.

I have seen it, although I saw it a long time ago.

Albert Brooks, getting back to Albert Brooks, he...

The aristocrat of comedy comedians.

If you were a standup comedian in the early 70s, what would your, what medium would you turn to?

Radio.

Yes, again.

Records.

Yes, records, comedy records.

Yeah, it's radio.

It's radio, but it's not, it's a record.

You listen to it, my friend.

Yes.

But so comedy albums.

So Albert Brooks did, I think two comedy records.

First one was called A Star Is Something, but the second one is called, was called Comedy Minus One.

Are you familiar with that one, FT.?

No, I like the title.

Yeah, no, it was genius.

So Comedy Minus One had the, the back of the album cover was a mirror, right?

Yeah, so you could look at yourself.

And the album is Albert Brooks doing the straight line, the setup lines so that you, the listener could stare into the album cover and do the punch lines which were printed inside the album cover.

Right, that's brilliant.

Yeah, so it's kind of like, and sorry, the-

Conceptual thing is a conceptual thing right there.

And sorry, the concept for those who are not musicians, long running series of records and cassette tapes called Music Minus One, where if you were a trumpet player, you could play along to Feel So Good by Chunk Mangione, and the band would be playing minus the trumpet, so you could play the Chunk Mangione part, as I know FT you often did.

Like that, yes.

Sounds more like a trombone.

So Albert Brooks, after the comedy albums, which did not, I don't know how well they'd be, they were very conceptual, as you can tell.

Didn't work on the same level as George Carlin's Class Clown album, or some of the other, the Cheech and Chong Up in Smoke album, where you could just listen to them.

It was the kind of thing you probably did at once and that was it.

But again, hats off to Albert Brooks for that.

He decided the next universe, the next frontier to conquer would be filmmaking.

And his first film, a short film he actually did for PBS, are you familiar with that one, FT.?

I am not.

Well, it's actually pretty interesting.

Oh, wait, wait, wait, is that the comedy school?

Yes, it was Albert Brooks.

Albert Brooks, you found the file cabinet, you found the file cabinet.

It was Albert Brooks' famous school for comedians, which actually came out of, he had done what was an article for Esquire magazine, but disguised to look like an advertisement.

So again, for our younger listeners.

A magazine is a-

Our younger listeners who are probably reading the transcript.

There used to be for art schools, there would be these ads like, can you draw this-

Mona Lisa?

Dog, and you'd send it in, they were great, you can be an artist.

So there would be tests for these for-profit schools.

So this was a spoof on a for-profit school for comedy.

It was a test, you have what it takes to be a comedian.

And the funny part is a young 16-year-old man named Jerry Seinfeld sees this comedy, this comedy, famous comedian school, and he thinks it's real.

He wants to go, he fills the whole thing out, and he talks about how he found out later, that he only found out later, and was disappointed that it was not a real thing.

So, before...

I could see the multiple choice test.

Yeah.

A guy walks in, blank, blank, and blank, walk into a bar.

Yes, exactly.

So, are you ready?

I have it here, FT.

Are you ready to take some of the, see how you do as...

Oh, man, ready.

Okay.

Here are some, just a few of the questions from the Albert Brooks famous comedy school, comedy talent test, and it has a registered R trademark next to it, of course.

Here we go.

This is easy.

This comes from the section, FT., know your one liners.

Here is a list of five one line, or at least very short jokes.

We've left out the last word or words.

Choose the proper ending from the choices given, then mark the corresponding letter in the blank space.

How do you think you're going to do on this?

Excellent.

Okay.

And again, you get multiple choices to fill in the blank.

So let me read you the thing with the blank, and then I'll give you the multiple choices and you pick the one.

Okay?

Pretty easy, right?

Sure.

Okay.

Number one, take my wife, blank.

Yes.

A, for instance.

B, I'll be along later.

Or C, please, exclamation point.

I knew this one.

Yes.

Go ahead.

What do you say?

C.

Good job, FT.

Thanks.

Number two, and again, there's going to be a fill in the blank and you're going to have multiple choices.

Yeah, I got the format, buddy.

She's so bow-legged, then when she sits around the house, she really blank.

A, eats a lot.

B, sits around the house.

Or C, looks bow-legged, believe me.

Oh my God.

Which one, FT.?

C.

Looks, okay.

So she's so bow-legged.

So the whole joke is she's so bow-legged, then when she sits around the house.

Looks bow-legged.

No, you got that wrong.

It was sits around the house.

The house, yes.

Number three, my hotel room was so small, when I closed the door, the door knob blank.

A, also closed since it's part of the door.

B, got in bed with me.

Or C, was missing.

Uh-oh.

A.

A, okay.

Also closed since it's part of the door.

Correct.

Is that true?

Yeah.

I figured that's an Albert Brooks kind of thing.

So this is in the, this is one of the questionnaires.

Yes.

I'm gonna ask you one more and then we can move on.

I'm only gonna give you one more as a bonus question, because you're doing, you should have been a stand up comedian, because you take to this like a duck takes to soup.

To a psychiatrist's office.

Okay.

Oh, wait, you want one of those?

That's somewhere else on there.

I don't think I have that here.

Maybe I do.

Yeah, I do have that one.

I'll give you that one next.

Sorry.

Yes.

An extra bonus.

Make those pork chops lean.

Here's another one.

But this is harder, FT.

I wasn't gonna ask you.

I didn't want to, you know, I know you get nervous in front of a crowd, even though there's nobody listening to this podcast.

This one's harder because you have to finish.

Okay, this is called comedy recall.

Complete these famous jokes with either their standard ending or one of your own.

If you need more space, use your own paper.

Okay, so I read it and it's, and you're going to have to finish it.

So a man walks into a bar with his wife under his arm.

The bartender looks at him in shock and asks if his duck drinks.

Quote, this is no duck, the man says, and you finish it.

This is like with the wife under his arm.

A man walks into a bar with a wife under his arm.

The bartender looks at him in shock and asks if his duck drinks.

This is no duck, the man says.

This is my wife.

Yes.

Believe me, that's ridiculous.

No, it doesn't give you...

I don't think there's an answer.

Right, it's anything.

No, there's no answers here.

Right, right, right.

But you did good, FT.

That was good, I thought.

You thought?

That's what she said.

But I'm very supportive of you in all your various...

Overly supportive, too much.

Various endeavors.

So he makes these comedy albums, he starts making these short films.

They offer him the role as the permanent host of Saturday Night Live, which he turns down and instead does the short films for Saturday Night Live, which are still being done by other people.

And then he gets to start making films.

He makes Real Life, which is really one of the first, I think, mockumentaries of which we have Spinal Tap directed by his high school friend, Rob Reiner.

Rob Reiner did that.

Yeah.

I can thank Albert for pioneering that genre.

He next did a film called Modern Romance.

And he was not doing, you know, the films were not, you know, they were funny.

Critics loved them.

They weren't doing all that well.

And he was very, he was very discouraged.

And then he got a call out of nowhere from Stanley Kubrick.

And do you know what happened on that call, FT.?

Yes, I believe that Kubrick praised him as a great, he liked the film, you know, to keep your courage.

It was a good film about jealousy.

Yeah.

Is what I recall.

Yes.

And so that got Albert Brooks, you know, very enthusiastic about directing more.

And of course, there's a...

He said it saved his life.

Yeah.

Although, of course...

Anything can save your life.

There's tragedy and comedy.

There's kind of a typical Albert Brooks ending to the story.

Do you know what it is, FT.?

Um, no.

Yes, Albert Brooks is like Stanley Kubrick saved my life.

He's telling everybody how Stanley Kubrick called him.

And then he plans a trip to England.

And he calls up Stanley Kubrick and says, hey Stanley, I'm gonna be in England.

You know, I'd like to come by.

And Kubrick just says, no, I don't think that sounds like a very good idea.

Nice.

So for his third film, he does this film Lost in America about an advertising guy like his brother Cliff.

And it concerns a trailer like Lucy and Desi, who contributed to the death of his father, Harry.

And that was a joke, FT.

Witnessed.

Yeah.

So with Monica Johnson, he starts writing Lost in America, and he wants to cast someone in the part of David.

He doesn't want to play the part of David, the part he ended up playing.

Question for you, FT., who did he want to cast as David?

Whoever it was, it would have been better than him.

I don't have any idea who.

Wow.

Okay, so this is going to be interesting.

So it was Howie Mandel.

You really think that would have been better?

No, but maybe.

It was Bill Murray.

Bill Murray.

As RZA would say, Bill Murray.

Yeah, and so you still think that would be better?

Maybe.

Albert Brooks' acting just feels pretty stiff to me.

You know, so Bill Murray can be, you know, sticky doing the Bill Murray thing.

So have I ever disagreed with you publicly?

I have?

When?

Yes.

When?

Right now.

Yes.

I think as much as I admire Bill Murray, the movie, the whole key to Lost in America, as we dive into it further, and let's hold off on that, is that it's played so straight and so realistically, he never punches the funny.

And Bill Murray, of course, does play for yucks.

As much as I like Bill Murray, and I think it would have just taken the film in the totally wrong direction, fortunately Bill Murray, when Albert Brooks called, was booked up for like for the next four years.

And so he apparently loved the script, wanted to do it, but Albert Brooks didn't want to wait.

So he took the part, which again, I think was a good, a good thing.

You know, I think that Bill Murray, with direction could have played it straight.

Yes.

He wasn't yucking it up in Groundhog Day, you know, just to say, I mean, you know, because he doesn't, you know, it depends on who's directing.

No, I mean, in what's the Sofia Coppola thing he's in, where he, I mean, he does.

Right.

Right.

Yes.

I still, I'm glad Albert Brooks, because it's, again, these films of Albert Brooks, like the films of Woody Allen, are so personal.

And Albert Brooks, like Chaplin, like Woody Allen, kind of plays a type, like Larry David.

So I'm glad it was, I'm glad it was Albert Brooks, but we just publicly disagreed.

Can we go on, FT.?

Or is this...

At the end of the relationship?

Yes.

No.

We can go on, or we can't?

We can go on.

You're a big man.

I'm taller than you were.

Yeah.

So Albert Brooks writes his scripts by acting out the parts into a tape recorder and then getting them typed up and transcribed.

Monica Johnson talked about For Lost in America.

He made them ride around in cars and do the lines while they were driving around.

It's interesting because there was another filmmaker who wrote his movies by talking into a tape recorder.

Do you know anybody like that?

I do not.

Larry Cohn did that.

He would walk around his swimming pool just dictating into his tape recorder.

What did he make?

He made, it's funny, remember Touch of Evil, the Orson Welles film, which remember we went on and on about how that was the greatest opening shot in all of cinema.

I actually think Larry Cohn's It's Alive, actually I was thinking about it after we did that podcast, is the greatest opening scene in all of cinema.

Yeah.

Do you agree?

No, I never saw it.

Yeah.

Larry Cohn did these cheap horror movies, including It's Alive, which is a classic of cheap horror.

The opening scene is just unforgettable.

It's an operating room where a woman is giving birth.

Right?

Oh, right.

I remember the trailer, the ad.

The problem with Mrs.

One, the trouble is...

Right.

But it's alive.

Yeah.

But I mean, the opening scene, it's just this birth scene in an operating room.

You know, Dr.

Sponge, what's blood pressure?

Blah, blah, blah.

And then the heartbeat starts getting really high and the doctor starts freaking out.

What's going on?

What's going on?

And then the baby bursts out of the birth canal and kills everybody, all the doctors, just slaughters everybody in the operating room.

With bare hands?

Or with a weapon?

I think teeth.

Teeth and claws.

Oh, teeth and right, and fingernail.

Right, claws.

Yeah, it's alive.

Yeah.

Nice.

So now let's get to our film, Lost in America, 1985, Albert Brooks.

Let me ask you a question, FT., if I may.

You may.

Does Lost in America suffer from the Valentino problem?

Which Valentino problem?

The Valentino problem.

Which of the problems is the Valentino problem?

The Valentino problem is-

No star?

No.

So I was a young man in the 1980s.

So when this film came out in 1985, I was working in advertising.

I saw it in a theater.

I loved it.

So the Valentino problem is this.

Well, I'll just tell you the Valentino problem, and then you can connect the dots.

So my daughter was in LA.

And by the way, it's my daughter.

I think I've talked about her.

She-

Who reads transcripts, yes.

She reads the transcripts of these podcasts just to see if I've mentioned her.

I think she's an attorney.

I think it's all she's waiting for me to say something that's actionable that she can bring some kind of disparagement suit for slander against me.

So she reads the transcript.

So if she's listening, she's reading this.

So she was in LA for business and I was like, oh, you should go to Valentino.

She had to take a client out or something.

I was like, you should go to Valentino.

It's a really good restaurant to take clients to.

I think you'll really like it.

And she's like, okay.

And then she calls up and says, dad, that place has been closed for 15 years.

And this happens constantly with me.

I'll say, go do this.

And it's something from the 80s that's long gone.

So this is the Valentino problem of which I speak of.

Does Lost in America suffer from the Valentino problem?

Do you mean it's not there anymore?

No, I was able to see it.

No, did you have to be there?

They famously said of the 1960s, if you remember the 1960s, you weren't there.

And so for the 80s, it's kind of like, if you remember the 80s, you weren't working hard enough.

Yeah, well, I mean, this is my issue with the film.

It took me three viewings to start to consider that it was satire.

Really?

If it is satire.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

What do you mean?

I just thought I took it as some stupid 80s yumpy movie.

And I do say yumpy, by the way, not yuppie.

Yuppie comedy.

Yeah, no, yuppies is young, urban professionals.

And yumpy was a young, upper-lay mobile.

No, is that really?

Yeah, yumpy, yumpy is a real thing.

And then there's another one, a yappy, a yap rather, which is a young, aspiring professional.

And that speaks to this movie, because it's a pretty yuppie movie.

You know, so any yuppie, yes, I took it as just like a yuppie, dumbass film.

Wow.

I didn't like it at all.

I was like, this thing is dumb.

Yeah, there's some good lines.

There's some, you know, one-liners here and there.

And then, you know, so the question becomes, is it me?

You know, because of my well-known, you know, lack of comedy.

Your well-known Goyism.

There was a thing.

Which is your nice way of saying something else.

You know.

Yeah, yeah.

What, that he's a nudge?

That he's just a ridiculous nudge in the longest first scene in his beautiful cinema?

Careful, FT., you're verging into anti-Semitism there.

No, I'm not.

I'm just verging into Yiddish.

You know, there's a famous advertising campaign from Doyle Dane Burnback, you may remember, for Levi's rye bread.

Do you remember it?

No.

The headlines were, it would be like a picture of an Indian eating a sandwich on what we assume is Levi's rye bread.

And it says, the headline was, You don't have to be Jewish to love Levi's rye bread.

So you're saying-

And so you have to be Jewish to appreciate humor like this.

Because it is very Jewish humor.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

The one liners are fine.

I just don't like the character.

The character was, he's a nudge.

Which is a Yiddish word.

And again, I think it gets to the Judaism, the Jewishness thing.

No, it could have been anybody who's neurotically-

Like Woody Allen who you also don't-

Well, yeah, but you could have had somebody else.

You could have anybody being just a complaining neurotic complainer.

Do you want to tell the story?

Remember one day, I'm like, what comedians-

I'm asking you, what comedians do you like, Woody Allen?

No, he's a nudge.

Albert Brooks, no, he's a nudge.

Okay, Frank, who do you like?

And you said Ray Fiennes.

Remember that?

Ray Fiennes?

Raymond Fiennes.

Ralph Fiennes.

No, I did say George Carlin, because I just thought he was-

Not funny or smart.

No, shut up.

Oh, he's not.

There's no way you can say his comedy is smarter than Albert Brooks' comedy.

Oh, yeah, absolutely, I will fight about it, yes.

Is this another public disagreement?

Is this the second strike?

No, no, Carlin is hilarious.

And this stuff is, I laugh, there's good jokes.

It's one-liners struck together with a stupid plot.

Let's go back to your third viewing, because I think it is way more than one-liners, because as you said, it is kind of a trenchant satire that was kind of way ahead of its time about, because again, the 80s, it was all about making money, materialism, Mercedes, BMWs.

And so here's a film, yeah, narcissism.

Here's a film way ahead about, is this all there is?

Is it hollow?

Should we give this up?

And since then, this theme has been done a billion times in movies, and is kind of the standard theme of...

Well, it's been a theme for a long time.

This is not the initiator of such a theme.

But having burnout, the corporate world dropping out, you know, he didn't invent this.

I mean, you know, and my question remains.

I mean, if a viewer, like a sophisticated viewer, which I somewhat am...

No, you are.

Isn't sure.

You are a very sophisticated viewer.

If the satire doesn't come through in the first...

I'm like, you know, the tone was off for me.

You know, it really was off.

And so I had to like assume it's satire, rather than it, you know, it wasn't clear that it was satire.

Although, you know, there's landmarks around the way he keeps repeating, you know, to people like, you know, we have dropped out of society.

We are trying to find ourselves, you know, and he'll preface that with, you know, like four or five times, you know, I counted.

I actually counted, you know.

So, yeah, I mean, so it started dawning on me that this is satirical, you know, but boy, at the beginning.

Yes.

You know.

Yes.

FT., why don't we talk about Albert Brooks as a director, specifically in Lost in America.

What did you think of the direction?

What did I think of the direction?

Yeah.

Where was it?

Well, that's it.

I think his direction from a visual standpoint was weak, very weak.

The first scene set off the whole thing.

And I think, you know, he got a decent performance out of her.

I forget her name, you know, and Julie Hagerty.

Yeah.

And, you know, the other people.

But, you know, my problem with him is a little bit like the Woody problem.

It's like him acting.

You know, I just don't think he's very good, you know, at all.

You know, so he did his best in trying to direct himself, you know.

But visually, I think the movie, you know, there's some nice shots here, but visually it was, you know, plain.

Yes.

No, I know.

Uninspired.

Yeah.

I mean, I think it is minimalist, you know, minimal.

But I think I was surprised.

I again, I had fond memories of this film.

I've always liked it.

I've seen it a lot of times.

I was assuming the direction was going to bother me.

And of course, the, as you know, Steady Cams is one of my piccadilloes of the Steady Cams I did not like.

Although I kind of got to the point of view, and I may have been rationalizing that Steady Cams are more acceptable in a comedy than they are, you know, because they just get the job, you know, they get the job done moving with characters.

So I could accept it a little bit more in a comedy.

But I thought I thought it was well done.

And what I most appreciated, again, his courage at not pushing the funny, the lack of reaction shots.

You know, a character will say something funny, never turns it around so we can see the other character.

So it doesn't rely on reaction shots, never underlines the funny, just lets it play.

Why don't we dive into the film and kind of go through the highlights or favorite parts or unfavorite parts.

So they buy this motor home, this Winnebago.

And by the way, one interesting thing about the film is it's all shot basically on practical locations inside motor homes.

And the cast and crew actually traveled across the United States into Winnebago to make the film.

So again, somewhat meta in the way they did it.

And of course, there's a great opening scene where they have the Going Away Party.

By the way, do you see any cameos in the Going Away Party?

No.

Yeah, sorry.

Who's the guy who directed broadcast news?

James, sorry, yeah, James.

James Brooks.

James L.

Brooks is in the crowd at the Going Away Party.

By the way, James L.

Brooks and Albert Brooks are not related, although Albert Brooks did sign a star in broadcast news.

And I think I nominated for an Academy Award for that performance, by the way.

That's a movie I thought before.

Remember, you were asking about him acting his first movie.

It was not.

Yeah.

So we see them riding down the road in their motor home and and his wife is in the kitchen using the microwave.

By the way, that's not the Browning element.

It's not legal to be walking around in a motor home while it's going down the road.

And she brings him a grilled cheese sandwich and he bites into the microwave grilled cheese driving in this motor home after giving up their resistance to be free and he says, you know, I've never really tasted melted cheese before.

This is the first time I think I've really tasted.

Yes, the melted cheese.

And they don't call it a grilled cheese.

They call it a melted cheese and the thing looked disgusting.

Well, because it's not, right?

Because it's not grilled, it's melted.

Right, right.

But with the browning element on a microwave, no such thing, is there?

No, I think there probably there probably was probably probably probably illegal now.

Yes.

Well, I think it was a joke.

When I when I was a teenager and eating cheese.

One of those long list songs.

I was, one thing we made, I don't think it was in a microwave, might have been in a microwave, was melted Velveeta.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Really?

Dip, a dip.

No, I never I never ate it, but I saw it done.

I watched it.

I watched it.

I watched it.

So they.

With pimentos.

And stop me if I'm skipping over anything you want to talk about, but they end up, they're on the road and Linda, the wife, sorry, they've made the decision to get remarried.

And Linda says, we should go to Las Vegas.

You know, they're planning to go to Las Vegas to get.

No, he does that at the parties.

Right.

We're gonna get remarried in Las Vegas.

But he intends to stay in the motor home.

She says, no, why don't we go to a hotel and watch porno movies, talk some, into going to this hotel and taking a bath together.

And so there's this whole funny bit of checking, checking into the hotel and trying to get the bridal suite.

How are you?

Good evening.

My wife and I have dropped out of society and we were gonna spend the night.

This is the way I do it.

We were gonna spend the night camping out and sleeping out under the stars, but we're getting remarried tomorrow and we want something real special, so the best bridal suite.

Do you have a reservation?

I just dropped out of society.

I kind of live moment to moment.

I really don't do reservation things anymore.

We do and I'm sorry, but the bridal suite is occupied.

Listen, I'm not good at this.

I don't get good seats at games and I've never gotten a ringsign.

It's just something I really don't know how to do.

So just to save time, how much do you want?

$100.

It turns out to be the junior bro, which has twin beds.

Yes.

And what's the line?

Well, it's just the visual, again, the visual.

Two heart-shaped beds.

Yeah.

And I would say, again, I like eye candy, I like production design, I like cinematography.

I think it's a conscious decision on his part to keep things straight forwards.

The comedy comes out and the comedy is that the Junior Bridal Suite has twin heart-shaped beds.

Yes.

So in other words, you're saying a two-shot is what really works here.

And that's directorial brilliance.

Yeah.

Well, I'm not saying brilliance, but I'm saying let the comedy come through.

You know what that is to me?

That's the rationalization of plain and ordinary, you know.

If Liberace had children, this would be their room.

The thing is, which is the line.

But what I liked about that was, this is the beginning of the formula, you know.

I'm surprised you didn't bring up the formula of what can go wrong.

Well, first off is counting your eggs before they're nested, you know, when he was counting on, what do you call it, being promoted.

But then the other formula is, you know, what can go wrong will go wrong.

And I did like how it played out with the making a reservation, you know, $50 first and another 50.

Then he outright asked him, how much you want?

A hundred bucks.

And then they get ripped off anyhow, even after the bribe.

And it's the beginning of the end.

You see, it's, you know, she's going to, you know, she's starting it up.

She's starting it up, you know?

Yeah.

And you're wondering what's going on.

The next thing I really liked is that he said-

Can I just jump in there before you go on to the next thing?

I think you bring up two important points I'd like to touch on there.

The whatever can go wrong will go wrong.

Again, is the formula of these road comedies.

It is the formula of Little Miss Sunshine, of National Lampoon's Vacation, Planes, Trains and Automobiles, and all the films we mentioned earlier.

But the interesting thing, the point you brought up there is this moment that you just brought up that you said, this is where things turn and everything will go wrong.

You're right, everything does go wrong from this point on except for one scene, which we'll get to in a bit.

So put a reminder on that if you can.

Okay, an asterisk, yeah.

Again, when you write a script in the Robert McKee fashion, there's positive beats and negative beats.

It's all negative beats except for one positive beat, which we'll get to in a bit, but only one.

Huh, now you're getting me thinking.

Keep going.

Yeah, I like the just one little detail.

I like the fact he's my kind of guy, the character that sets his alarm clock for 559.

I never set timers to even numbers.

Why is that FT.?

You know, I don't know.

I just said, I don't want to be a conformist.

It's a weird thing I have.

Right.

Yes.

The scene with Gary Marshall where Albert Brooks tries to convince him to give them their money back as an advertising, as a marketing boy.

Yes.

Thank you for seeing me.

I've heard a lot about you.

What do you mean?

Who were you talking to?

I meant nice things.

You have a good reputation.

You run a great casino.

Oh, thank you.

Is your wife feeling better?

Much better.

I'm going to present you with an idea, and before I do, I just want to fill you in on a little bit of my credentials.

I was a creative director for Ross and McMahon.

You're familiar with them?

No.

One of the biggest advertising agencies in the world, in the whole world.

So when I say I have an idea, you know, I'm not a jerk who walked in off the street.

It's my business.

My wife and I have dropped out of society, and we really just were going to roam across the country and find ourselves, just like they did in Easy Rider.

Easy what?

Easy Rider, the film.

Oh, I didn't see that film.

Great movie.

You got to see it.

It's historic.

Anyway, we lost our nest egg here.

I realize you lost a lot of money.

Your room and your food comped free.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

I didn't mean that.

That's not what I meant.

All right.

I'm going to take this idea now, and please be secretive, because if another hotel hears about this, they'll take it.

This is my business.

As the boldest experiment in advertising history, you give us our money back.

I beg your pardon?

Give us our money back.

Think of the publicity.

The Hilton Hotels has these billboards all over Los Angeles where the winners of these slot machine jackpots, their faces are all over LA.

And I know that works.

I've seen people at corners look up and say, maybe I'll go to the Hilton.

Well, you give us our money back.

I don't even know now, because I'm just coming off the top of my head, but a visual where if we had a billboard and the Desert Inn handed us our nest egg back, this gives the Desert Inn really...

Vegas is not associated with feeling.

First of all, those people on those signs, they won, you lost.

But that's it.

That's the campaign.

What's the campaign?

You gave my wife and I our money back because you reviewed our situation and you realized that we dropped out of society and we weren't just gamblers and we made a mistake and you gave our money back.

Do you know you couldn't get a room in this place for 10 years?

Then everybody wants their money back.

All the gamblers will say, hey, go to the desert and get our money back.

I just, you know, I just, I love that scene.

And again, as an advertising person in 1985 watching the movie, I just loved it because it was such an advertising, you know, again, advertising people, you're always pitching ideas.

Most of them are just like Gary Marshall just said, that doesn't work.

You know, most of the ideas you pitch, you get that kind of reaction from clients.

I remember one was, we had the Perrier account, and we pitched, I brought them the idea of a new product, which was dehydrated Perrier, which would come in packets, you know, flavored with the minerals.

And you could just add it to water.

And I was like, you know, people, you know, because it's heavy and you have to ship those bottles from France.

Yes, yes.

Consumers have to ship them home.

And the Perrier people who were French did not, did not, Ken, did not like that.

You stole that from me.

Seriously?

Beer Fizzies.

Okay, right.

Beer Fizzies years before.

Oh, wow.

Sorry.

Yes.

Oh my God.

I probably did steal it from you.

And then, what, beer Fizzies?

And then the other one, which I might have stole from you too.

No, we had this very big wine company and they were trying to come up with a new product.

And so they rented this resort in Napa and had me come, had a famous cookbook author, who I'll leave nameless, a famous chef, and this famous marketing new product consultant.

And the idea was to come up with a new, some kind of new wine product idea.

So it was like, rented this resort, we had to go to meetings all day.

And then I pitched my big idea.

So my big idea was, and I did it just like this, I said, do you remember those really cool wine bottles for like Italian wine that were shaped like fish?

Do you remember those, FT.?

Yes, yes, yes.

And they're like, yeah.

And I could tell they're already like.

Uh oh.

And the client, I was tight with the client, and the client had a good sense of humor, but he was uptight the whole meeting, because again, he had, you know, this world famous cookbook author, this world famous, and me, like, just everything, you know, he was waiting for me to embarrass him.

So I was like, you remember those, those wine bottles that had, had a fit, in the shape of a fish?

They were really cool.

Yeah, they were molded.

Yeah, they were really cool.

And yeah, and they're just looking at me.

And I'm like, so the idea could be, it's a line of wines.

One, one bottle is shaped like a fish, and that's the white wine that goes with fish.

One bottle is shaped like a cow, which is a red wine, and it goes with beef.

And one bottle is shaped like a chicken, and it's, you know, whatever kind of wine goes with chicken.

That's brilliant.

Brilliant.

Brilliant.

No, I think it would be good, but again, they were, it did not go over well.

And I was never invited back to another offsite like that.

Well, because, you know, you had copyright infringement with the fish.

You should have, you know, your, the model should have been different.

Should have been a clam, should have been a clam.

I thought you were going to say like, you know, you know, Venus de Milo, you know, a Greek wine, you know, go across the countries, you know, like naked women's and men's, you know.

So yes.

Anyway, you-

Tootsie shaped wine bottles.

You had a thought you wanted to jump in with.

I did?

Yes, and I said, hang on to that thought.

Where were we?

Gary Marshall?

I was talking-

Right, here's a case, here's a case where I, you know, at first I was like going, okay, all right, but I really, it was almost too long.

But, you know, so many weird, subtle things he was saying, and he was trying to pitch it and pitch it and pitch it, you know?

See, and to me, it was, I could have watched that scene for another hour, happily.

I like Wayne Newton, yes, it was a good one.

The, I'm going to jump ahead, and if I jump too far, pull me, pull me back.

I'm going to jump to, remember I told you before, once this movie turns at the, once you lose the money, everything is a negative beat except for one scene.

Can you now guess what that scene is?

Is it, no, I can't.

Is it after the Hoover Dam?

Yes, I think, I think, I'm not sure if it's before or after the Hoover Dam, and I can't tell you because I'll give it away.

You can, after I reveal it, you can say whether it's before or after Hoover Dam.

Okay, hit me.

When they get pulled over by the motorcycle cop.

Right, it's after, they've reconciled.

Yes, which seems negative, but Linda then says, you know, she's getting a ticket he can't afford.

Can I ask you how much this will cost?

$140, $150.

Oh, we can't pay that.

That's too high.

That's too much money.

We don't have it.

This isn't a swap meet.

Did you see Easy Rider?

I tried this, it doesn't work.

What?

You know, the movie Easy Rider?

I can't believe you asked me that.

It's my favorite movie of all time.

I love that movie.

I started riding the motorcycle because of that movie.

Why did you ask me that?

Well, my husband, he sort of based his whole life on that movie.

Well, not my whole life, for the last couple of weeks.

Yes.

How are you?

Hello.

Wow.

Fantastic.

Remember the ending when they got blown away?

Great ending.

It made my day.

Remember the scene with Jack Nicholson with the football helmet?

Oh, yes.

Nicholson wasn't supposed to get that part.

Really?

No.

It was supposed to be somebody else.

He lucked into it.

Oh, remember that scene in the commune?

With the mimes?

Yeah.

Great scenes.

You know, since we all have this in common, couldn't you maybe let us go this time?

Well, that would be great.

I mean, it's like, you know, this is like a club, isn't it?

Hey, hey, hey.

Get out of here.

Great.

I mean, Dennis Hopper wouldn't give Peter Fonda a ticket, now would he?

Dennis Hopper couldn't find Peter Fonda.

You're real nice.

I really appreciate it.

That's terrific.

And the cop tears up the ticket.

But one of the...

Wait a minute.

What?

He doesn't tear up the ticket.

You missed it.

What do you mean?

He hands him the ticket.

No, he tears...

That's what I...

No, he doesn't.

He does.

No, he doesn't.

No, he doesn't.

He rips it out of the thing and he hands him the ticket.

That's what I thought was the joke.

That he still gives him the ticket.

No, I believe...

Especially the response after that, I believe they did not get...

No, no, no, no, no, no, my friend, my friend.

Okay, this will be three.

So, three public disagreements.

That's three strikes.

You're off the podcast, FT.

Thanks, buddy.

No, I think that's a positive beat.

If not, then yeah, that blows my theory that then there are no positive beats and you were right that it's all negative after she loses the money.

But I wanted to get to another point.

The motorcycle cop says, you know, when she brings up Easy Rider and they're bonding over it, he says, you know, Nicholson wasn't supposed to get that role.

Do you remember he says that?

Yes.

Okay.

Trivia question.

Who was supposed to play the Nicholson part in Easy Rider, FT.?

Here's my guess.

He was the actor that played the motorcycle cop.

Wrong.

True or false?

That would have been great, though.

Yes.

Again, I think you're instinctively right, because it is an actor who would be in Albert Brooks's next film.

Charles Grodin?

No, that was before.

Right.

Rip Torn, who was in...

Oh, Rip Torn.

Oh, right.

I knew that.

Well, I did not know that, but you know.

And sorry, what was the name of the film I don't really like about Albert Brooks in heaven, Defending Your Life?

Rip Torn is in that.

Right.

Interesting.

Yes.

You know, the weird thing about Easy Rider all along, you know, it really...

One of the things that shows with the Gary Marshall scene, you know, when he goes, I never saw that, it was a, you know, it's a culture.

They talk about the culture wars now, which I hate that war on drugs, you know, the culture, but the culture skirmish was starting then around Easy Rider.

You know, you had the people for and the people who saw it and related to and who didn't.

The weird thing, Ken, for me, in this all along is that he holds this up.

And this is where I started seeing it as satire, because I went like, wait a minute, how did Easy Rider end?

Right.

Yes.

You remember how it ends?

They get blown to bits by a shotgun from a pickup truck.

Right, exactly.

At first, Jack Nicholson gets bludgeoned to death.

Sorry, I apologize to the audience that I've just ruined Easy Rider for you.

But Jack Nicholson gets bludgeoned to death first.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They all die.

And so on the road.

And with the whole business about the nest egg.

Which, if you don't mind, I'd like to go back to that at the Hoover Dam.

Sure, of course.

Because I really, this is the other thing I started going like, wait a minute, maybe this is satire.

His explanation of the nest egg?

Yes.

It's absurd.

The egg is a protector like a god, and we sit under the nest egg, and we are protected by it.

Without it, no protection.

Want me to go on?

It pours rain.

Hey, the rain drops on the egg and falls off the side.

Without the egg, wet, it's over.

But you didn't understand it, and that's why we are where we are.

I understood the nest egg.

Please do me a favor.

Don't use the word.

You may not use that word.

It's off limits to you.

Only those in this house who understand nest egg may use it, and don't use any part of it either.

Don't use nest.

Don't use egg.

If you're out in the forest, you can point, the bird lives in a round stick, and you have things over easy with toast.

That was a good one.

Yes.

But very, very verbal.

Yes.

No visual humor, which is hard to do, because it's usually slapstick.

Well, again, I think the film has a mix of the visual and the verbal.

Just off the top of my head from memory, the scene where he goes and makes his pitch to Gary Marshall, what's he wearing?

Albert Brooks.

His bathrobe.

He's still in his bathrobe, which gets up in the first scene where he goes down to the lobby, and the guard says, sir, you can't wear a bathrobe in here.

And he says, I've seen electric horsemen.

That guy rode a horse.

So that's a visual thing.

Obviously, the twin beds is visual.

Yes, that is a visual one, but it's rare.

I mean, you know, his metier is verbal.

Yeah, the good jokes.

Yes.

What does metier translate to?

It's a French word.

I don't know, actually.

I thought it would be like, you know, one situation, one's preferred.

One's thang.

I think it translates to thang.

Thang.

I was gonna jump ahead to the employment office scene, which is another great set piece with...

Metier means job.

Isn't that weird?

Huh.

But it must mean more, anyhow.

Maybe I misspelled it.

Speaking of jobs.

Yes.

It's a perfect segue, FT.

Factor.

Ding, ding, ding.

Yeah.

So that whole set piece is just so funny.

And again, you might argue that it went on for too long, but again, that's the thing with comedy.

You know, you can...

Milk it.

If you have something that's working, you keep milking it.

And there were so many great lines there, but the whole set up is, you know, he's in the employment office in Sephora, Arizona, and the guy's filling out a form.

How, you know, what was your salary in your last job?

And Albert Brooks says...

$80,000 was the base salary, and then I was in a bonus situation, which would give me anywhere from $15,000 to $25,000, depending on, you know, the year that we had.

And generally, $100,000.

$100,000?

Over what period of time are we talking about?

A year.

A year?

What's so funny?

Nothing that's very good.

What brings you around these parts?

Trying to double up on that income?

Well, I've come here to live.

I'm trying to change my life.

You couldn't change your life on $100,000?

Yeah, which was great.

I thought a great line.

Exactly.

Yes.

Because just to show the people, it is a fantastic line.

Because what we're dealing with in Safford, Arizona, is a job as a crossing guard at $5 an hour with benefits.

And what's the benefit, Ken?

Do you remember?

Is it the chair?

No.

You get a ride back and forth from school if you need one.

No, see, there's a case where it didn't.

I thought the jokes were building up on each other.

And it ended with the whole business when he goes, well, like Easy Rider.

And again, Easy Rider comes in here.

But he goes, no, I don't know that one, but I know Easy Money.

With Rodney Dinger.

The I get no respect guy, he says.

And yeah, that was a good one.

I also enjoyed it.

So they decide, which they were kind of doomed from the beginning, this is, let's go back, get our jobs back, go back to being yuppies or yampies or whatever.

You call them FT., yorkies.

Yorkies, you know, but, you know, but this is what for me was the really disturbing thing of the film, you know, but it took me a while with the satire, you know, that what they ended up discovering that there's nothing inside them, but the sort of desire to eat corporate shit.

Because he says, I'm going to eat shit and go back there.

Yes.

You know, and I'm just like, wow.

You know, and that's where I started going, wait a minute, this has to be satire because they both went like, yeah, you know, let's go eat shit.

It's like running stimpy.

Yes.

You know, like, yeah.

Yes.

Again, they realized they liked the life they thought they hated better than the life that they thought they wanted.

Right.

All because they didn't, it's not like they lost anything, really.

It's just like, you know, they didn't have enough.

Well, you know, they didn't lose their job.

It wasn't Aaron Brockovich, you know, it wasn't protesting, you know, it wasn't the cigarette movie with Russell Crowe.

What's that one?

You know, the inside, which we have to do very soon, as soon as it's just, it's just long and.

Yeah, I'd like to do that one.

Yeah.

Yes.

One last remark for me.

It's interesting where when he gets his job back, it's that building.

Well, we don't know if he gets it.

Well, he does.

They say the titles.

He should for 31 percent to cut.

But the building is called the Solo Building, Solo, S-O-L-O-W.

Okay.

1974 and has a big 10 foot 9 there, which I said, what is that?

Channel 9?

No.

You know what that was?

That was called a blockbuster building because it broke the block where the Plaza Hotel is.

People were infuriated that this 50-story skyscraper was in this gallery district so that half of the people in the plaza, when they look out their window, you know what they see?

A glass wall.

So it's interesting that his company has offices there.

Yeah.

A little architecture trivia.

And by the way, when we talk about the balance of the film being off, it's interesting because they really did shoot.

The footage going across America was not second unit.

The crew in their Winnebago's went all the way across America filming, and then Albert Brooks apparently labored to get a huge amount of footage of the travel across the United States down to the four-minute montage that's in there now.

Yes.

So, but it does feel like the ending is very abrupt, but...

Oh, it is.

And that's why we're not even going to go out with our goodbye, because we're going to cut it right here.

Oh, wait.

We do have...

Thanks, FT.

We got to go.

We're way over...

We're over time here, so catch up with us, please.

If you haven't subscribed, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episodes of They Shoot Films.

Visit our website.

And where is the website located, FT.?

At theyshootfilms.com.

That's not what I was asking.

Sorry, we have a website that's located on the internet.

But actually, yeah, but go to...

Actually, that's a good point, FT.

Right.

Otherwise, go to your billboard that says theyshootfilms.com.

Go to theyshootfilms.com.

A lot of interesting stuff there.

You can see what the upcoming film is going to be, so you can get get ahead of the crowd.

You can send us comments.

You can leave us voicemails.

That's theyshootfilms.com.

What is it again, FT.?

theyshootfilms.com.

Excellent.

On the Internet.

Thanks, FT.

Have a good evening there in the great state of New York, and I will enjoy the rest of our afternoon, late afternoon here in California.

Let's take let's take us out.

Let's hit the music.

I can't say goodbye.

They Shoot Films is a production of Film Symposium West.

Produced by Anne-Marie De Palma, studio announcer, Roy Blumenfeld.