Marathon Man

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Marathon Man

Show Notes
Transcript

Marathon Man, starring Dustin Hoffman and Lawrence Olivier as a Nazi war criminal, created a sensation when it was released in 1976. In this episode, Ken Mercer and FT Kosempa examine the film’s infamous dental torture scene, the contributions of writer William Goldman, and the movie’s connection to the Coen brother's The Big Lebowski. The thriller was directed by John Schlesinger and features Roy Scheider, William Devane and Marthe Keller in supporting roles.

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<v SPEAKER_2>You're listening to They Shoot Films with Ken Mercer and FT.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Kosempa.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Hey there, everybody, and welcome to another episode of They Shoot Films, where we talk about the movies that matter.

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<v SPEAKER_3>My name is Ken Mercer, and I'm joined here, as always, with the great FT.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Kosempa.

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<v SPEAKER_3>FT., how are you today?

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<v SPEAKER_4>I'm doing well, Ken.

00:00:38.158 --> 00:00:40.438
<v SPEAKER_4>How are you doing, buddy?

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<v SPEAKER_3>I'm a little bit tormented, to be honest, with you, Frankie.

00:00:44.158 --> 00:00:45.118
<v SPEAKER_4>With me?

00:00:45.118 --> 00:00:46.238
<v SPEAKER_5>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Tormented?

00:00:47.558 --> 00:00:48.978
<v SPEAKER_6>Yeah.

00:00:48.978 --> 00:00:49.918
<v SPEAKER_4>You saw you got my note.

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<v SPEAKER_4>No, I'm just kidding.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Why are you tormented?

00:00:54.838 --> 00:01:05.658
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm tormented because I don't know how to begin this episode, which is about the 1976 film Marathon Man, directed by John Schlesinger.

00:01:05.658 --> 00:01:17.778
<v SPEAKER_3>The reason I'm tormented is it seems like I should start the show by saying, I don't want to say it, but it seems like I should say, is it safe?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Which I refuse to do, which is just so fucking obvious.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so I don't want to begin the show that way, even though I feel like that's...

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<v SPEAKER_4>You just did.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no, I didn't.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I didn't.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't really.

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<v SPEAKER_3>By the way, so that phrase is spoken by Christian Zell, the Nazi played by Lawrence Olivier, is...

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<v SPEAKER_3>Do you remember, FT., we talked a few episodes back about the American Film Institute's 100 movie quotes?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, I do.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So, do you think, is it safe, or as Olivier says, is it safe?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Do you think that's on the list of the top 100 American movie quotes, yes or no?

00:02:00.658 --> 00:02:02.598
<v SPEAKER_4>American movie quotes?

00:02:02.598 --> 00:02:03.978
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:02:03.978 --> 00:02:04.338
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:02:04.978 --> 00:02:07.358
<v SPEAKER_3>You're off to a weak start, but I know you always start out...

00:02:07.358 --> 00:02:10.038
<v SPEAKER_4>I was going to say yes, but I was going to...

00:02:10.038 --> 00:02:11.218
<v SPEAKER_2>But I said no.

00:02:11.218 --> 00:02:12.198
<v SPEAKER_3>I know.

00:02:12.198 --> 00:02:14.918
<v SPEAKER_3>You got to work on that self-confidence, but I've noticed you always start...

00:02:16.618 --> 00:02:19.778
<v SPEAKER_3>You always start weak and you finish strong, so don't panic.

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<v SPEAKER_3>All right, yes, it is number...

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<v SPEAKER_3>It is on the American Film Institute's top 100 movie quotes in American film from the last 100 years.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Is It Safe is on there.

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<v SPEAKER_3>What number do you think it is on the list of the top 100 movie quotes?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Where do you think it ranks?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Is it safe?

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<v SPEAKER_4>83.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Wrong.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It actually came in at number 70.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So let's play a little game.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Hopefully you can redeem yourself and also I know.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Just try to keep...

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<v SPEAKER_3>I always find ways to try to keep you interested and awake on these podcasts.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So I'm going to read you some other movie quotes that are on the list, okay?

00:03:02.138 --> 00:03:13.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is first identify what film the quote is from and then say whether it's ranked either lower or higher than is it safe.

00:03:13.938 --> 00:03:15.838
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you want to try to do that?

00:03:15.838 --> 00:03:17.798
<v SPEAKER_4>No, but let's do it anyhow.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, here's one I know you're going to get.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Ready?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, okay.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Gentlemen, you can't fight in here.

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<v SPEAKER_3>This is The War Room.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Stanley Kubrick's Dr.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Strange Love or How I Learned to Love the Bomb.

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<v SPEAKER_4>And I would say that is later, higher on the list.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You mean, so again, it goes above 70.

00:03:40.018 --> 00:03:42.018
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, so you're correct.

00:03:42.018 --> 00:03:42.818
<v SPEAKER_3>It is from Dr.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Strange Love, Stanley Kubrick's 1964 film.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But that is ranked higher than is it safe.

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<v SPEAKER_3>That's at 64.

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<v SPEAKER_4>You mean higher is lower.

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<v SPEAKER_4>This is like 1984.

00:03:56.278 --> 00:04:00.398
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, did you mean to say that you thought it was ranked higher than is it safe?

00:04:00.398 --> 00:04:01.718
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought it came before.

00:04:01.718 --> 00:04:03.098
<v SPEAKER_4>I should have said before.

00:04:03.098 --> 00:04:03.318
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:04:03.738 --> 00:04:06.758
<v SPEAKER_3>So again, 100 is the lowest, one is the highest.

00:04:06.758 --> 00:04:09.598
<v SPEAKER_3>So all right, so we'll give that one to you.

00:04:09.598 --> 00:04:10.718
<v SPEAKER_3>You're just confused.

00:04:10.718 --> 00:04:11.738
<v SPEAKER_4>I just lied.

00:04:11.738 --> 00:04:12.518
<v SPEAKER_4>I lied.

00:04:12.518 --> 00:04:13.698
<v SPEAKER_4>I lied.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, here we go.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Forget it, Jake.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's Chinatown.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, geez.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:04:19.918 --> 00:04:20.818
<v SPEAKER_4>That's a hard one.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you know, obvious, but I would say that is...

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<v SPEAKER_3>Well, say what movie it's from.

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<v SPEAKER_4>No, you say what movie it's from.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Chinatown, Jesus.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I would say that's in the 40s.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:04:36.338 --> 00:04:42.598
<v SPEAKER_3>And especially weak of showing from you since we did this on the podcast on Chinatown, I gave you that you knew which number it was.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, like 10 or 8.

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<v SPEAKER_2>93.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Again, your memory is-

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<v SPEAKER_4>It's like the kids in grade school and they would say like, what's 6 times 23?

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<v SPEAKER_2>44?

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<v SPEAKER_4>75?

00:04:54.378 --> 00:04:55.618
<v SPEAKER_4>They just came up with a number.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So again, you think, forget it, Jacob's Chinatown is what number, even though you know what we've covered it before?

00:05:00.718 --> 00:05:01.318
<v SPEAKER_4>I forget.

00:05:01.318 --> 00:05:02.058
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know what-

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<v SPEAKER_3>You just said 40 something, right?

00:05:03.438 --> 00:05:04.298
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I did.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Do you think that I remember stuff like this?

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's 74, so it is ranked lower.

00:05:11.358 --> 00:05:13.198
<v SPEAKER_3>It's behind.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Is it safe?

00:05:14.618 --> 00:05:15.178
<v SPEAKER_3>Believe it or not.

00:05:15.738 --> 00:05:17.318
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't think that makes a lot of sense.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Here we go.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Another one.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.

00:05:23.878 --> 00:05:25.538
<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, is that Streetcar?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Correct.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Streetcar named Desire.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Kazan directed it, didn't he?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_4>That is definitely ranked higher.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You think it's higher up the list than-

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<v SPEAKER_4>No, lower.

00:05:41.358 --> 00:05:42.918
<v SPEAKER_4>It's ranked before.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It's more popular.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, it's less popular.

00:05:46.978 --> 00:05:49.578
<v SPEAKER_3>It's 75, so it's five spots below.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Is it safe?

00:05:51.578 --> 00:05:52.698
<v SPEAKER_4>That's ridiculous.

00:05:52.698 --> 00:05:53.438
<v SPEAKER_4>Is it safe?

00:05:53.438 --> 00:05:54.978
<v SPEAKER_4>That's, oh my God.

00:05:54.978 --> 00:05:56.298
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, here we go.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:05:57.038 --> 00:05:58.218
<v SPEAKER_3>I know you're going to get this one.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I know this is for you, my friend.

00:06:00.938 --> 00:06:01.258
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

00:06:01.258 --> 00:06:06.738
<v SPEAKER_3>Of all the gin joints in all the towns in the world, she walks into mine.

00:06:06.738 --> 00:06:10.778
<v SPEAKER_4>Michael Cote's directed it, and it's Victoriate Marseille.

00:06:10.778 --> 00:06:13.058
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I mean, I've been trying to plug that movie.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Also shot by James Wanhau, by the way.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It is Casablanca, my friend.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Correct, correct.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And would you say more popular or less popular?

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<v SPEAKER_4>More popular.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you for clarifying my number dyslexia.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Correct.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Only three spots higher, though.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's 67.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Where is it safe?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Is it 70?

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<v SPEAKER_4>That's ridiculous.

00:06:31.258 --> 00:06:31.658
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, here we go.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Last one, because I know I already can tell you're getting into one of your states where everything's ridiculous, everything sucks.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I hate it.

00:06:38.678 --> 00:06:39.198
<v SPEAKER_4>I love it.

00:06:39.198 --> 00:06:39.758
<v SPEAKER_4>I hate it.

00:06:39.758 --> 00:06:40.078
<v SPEAKER_2>I love it.

00:06:40.078 --> 00:06:40.638
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:06:41.278 --> 00:06:41.718
<v SPEAKER_3>Here it goes.

00:06:41.718 --> 00:06:42.058
<v SPEAKER_3>Ready?

00:06:42.058 --> 00:06:43.998
<v SPEAKER_3>I want you to really concentrate on this one.

00:06:43.998 --> 00:06:44.698
<v SPEAKER_4>All right, wait, wait.

00:06:44.698 --> 00:06:46.018
<v SPEAKER_4>Give me a second to concentrate.

00:06:46.018 --> 00:06:48.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Use all your powers of concentrate.

00:06:48.498 --> 00:06:49.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, ready?

00:06:50.138 --> 00:06:50.558
<v SPEAKER_3>Don't do that.

00:06:50.558 --> 00:06:53.938
<v SPEAKER_3>You're gonna give yourself an aneurysm.

00:06:53.938 --> 00:06:54.418
<v SPEAKER_4>Shut up.

00:06:54.418 --> 00:06:55.818
<v SPEAKER_4>Just get that up.

00:06:55.958 --> 00:06:57.498
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, yes.

00:06:57.498 --> 00:06:59.118
<v SPEAKER_3>Say hello to my little friend.

00:07:04.418 --> 00:07:07.298
<v SPEAKER_4>Say hello to my, I have no idea.

00:07:07.298 --> 00:07:09.878
<v SPEAKER_4>But I'll bet it ranks higher.

00:07:09.938 --> 00:07:11.558
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, it sure does.

00:07:11.558 --> 00:07:14.758
<v SPEAKER_3>And this just proves what a hopeless film snob you are.

00:07:15.198 --> 00:07:22.618
<v SPEAKER_3>This is something I would venture that 99.9% of the viewing public knows by heart.

00:07:22.618 --> 00:07:23.378
<v SPEAKER_4>Wait a second.

00:07:24.018 --> 00:07:24.778
<v SPEAKER_4>I object to that.

00:07:25.358 --> 00:07:26.798
<v SPEAKER_4>I would only say 99.2%.

00:07:27.758 --> 00:07:28.658
<v SPEAKER_3>Whatever.

00:07:28.658 --> 00:07:30.098
<v SPEAKER_3>Come on, you know what it is.

00:07:30.098 --> 00:07:31.218
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know what it is.

00:07:31.218 --> 00:07:32.398
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, it's Al Pacino.

00:07:32.398 --> 00:07:34.458
<v SPEAKER_3>Does that help?

00:07:34.458 --> 00:07:35.338
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:07:35.338 --> 00:07:36.978
<v SPEAKER_3>And he says it in an accent.

00:07:36.978 --> 00:07:38.518
<v SPEAKER_3>Say, I'm not going to do accents.

00:07:38.518 --> 00:07:39.358
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I want to hear.

00:07:39.418 --> 00:07:40.098
<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, wait.

00:07:40.098 --> 00:07:44.698
<v SPEAKER_4>I will not continue the podcast unless you do it in Al Pacino.

00:07:44.698 --> 00:07:45.178
<v SPEAKER_4>What is this?

00:07:45.178 --> 00:07:45.778
<v SPEAKER_4>Carlito?

00:07:45.778 --> 00:07:46.758
<v SPEAKER_4>Is he Carlito here?

00:07:46.758 --> 00:07:48.098
<v SPEAKER_4>Or is he Tony?

00:07:49.038 --> 00:07:50.018
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, you got it.

00:07:50.018 --> 00:07:50.438
<v SPEAKER_3>Do it.

00:07:50.658 --> 00:07:51.278
<v SPEAKER_4>No, you do it.

00:07:51.278 --> 00:07:52.278
<v SPEAKER_4>No, no, I won't continue.

00:07:52.278 --> 00:07:54.478
<v SPEAKER_3>Say hello to my little friend.

00:07:55.618 --> 00:07:56.318
<v SPEAKER_4>What's his little friend?

00:07:56.318 --> 00:07:57.278
<v SPEAKER_4>A machine gun?

00:07:57.278 --> 00:07:58.038
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:07:58.038 --> 00:07:59.938
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, I thought, okay.

00:07:59.938 --> 00:08:00.598
<v SPEAKER_3>What is it, Frank?

00:08:00.598 --> 00:08:03.078
<v SPEAKER_3>Just say hello to my little friend.

00:08:03.078 --> 00:08:04.598
<v SPEAKER_3>What is it?

00:08:04.598 --> 00:08:06.258
<v SPEAKER_3>Tony Montana, you got it?

00:08:06.278 --> 00:08:08.458
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, wait, it's the Howard Hawks originally.

00:08:08.458 --> 00:08:14.018
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm blanking on the, what's the remake's name?

00:08:14.018 --> 00:08:14.498
<v SPEAKER_3>What the hell?

00:08:14.998 --> 00:08:15.458
<v SPEAKER_4>Help me out.

00:08:15.458 --> 00:08:16.018
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the original.

00:08:16.018 --> 00:08:16.758
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the original.

00:08:16.778 --> 00:08:17.478
<v SPEAKER_4>I know.

00:08:17.478 --> 00:08:18.538
<v SPEAKER_4>That's what I said.

00:08:18.538 --> 00:08:19.218
<v SPEAKER_3>Scarface.

00:08:19.478 --> 00:08:21.318
<v SPEAKER_4>Scarface, yes.

00:08:21.318 --> 00:08:22.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Say hello to my little friend.

00:08:22.898 --> 00:08:25.358
<v SPEAKER_3>And that is ranked higher than is it safe.

00:08:25.358 --> 00:08:26.258
<v SPEAKER_4>That's ridiculous.

00:08:26.258 --> 00:08:27.518
<v SPEAKER_3>It is 61.

00:08:27.518 --> 00:08:32.558
<v SPEAKER_3>And we better get off this before you start talking about everybody but you is so stupid.

00:08:32.558 --> 00:08:35.978
<v SPEAKER_4>Everybody but me is so stupid.

00:08:36.378 --> 00:08:37.798
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:08:37.798 --> 00:08:42.938
<v SPEAKER_4>Who's the first person that says it's not safe in the film?

00:08:42.938 --> 00:08:44.678
<v SPEAKER_3>Who's the first person that says it's not safe?

00:08:45.318 --> 00:08:46.638
<v SPEAKER_3>Isn't it Roy Scheider?

00:08:46.798 --> 00:08:49.198
<v SPEAKER_4>That's right, that's right, that's right.

00:08:49.958 --> 00:08:51.678
<v SPEAKER_3>Now you're trying to quiz me, my friend.

00:08:51.678 --> 00:08:53.498
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh yeah, yeah, turn the tables.

00:08:53.498 --> 00:08:56.078
<v SPEAKER_3>You're going down if you're trying to quiz me.

00:08:56.078 --> 00:08:59.958
<v SPEAKER_3>All right, let's get to this film, Marathon Man, 1976.

00:09:02.558 --> 00:09:05.458
<v SPEAKER_3>And where do we want to start on this?

00:09:05.458 --> 00:09:16.238
<v SPEAKER_3>I guess the first thing to say is, this is an example of a film, one of the rare films that has kind of the all-star team gathering.

00:09:16.558 --> 00:09:24.538
<v SPEAKER_3>The all-star screenwriter in William Goldman, all-star stars in Dustin Hoffman, Lawrence Olivier.

00:09:24.538 --> 00:09:28.878
<v SPEAKER_3>Bob Evans is the producer, Conrad Hall is the cinematographer.

00:09:28.878 --> 00:09:34.098
<v SPEAKER_3>So it is the A-team focused on this.

00:09:34.338 --> 00:09:38.678
<v SPEAKER_3>What could have been a toss-away genre thriller.

00:09:40.758 --> 00:10:03.178
<v SPEAKER_3>But I think largely because of Bob Evans, he was determined not to just make it a throwaway and kind of killed himself to get, we'll talk about it later, to get Olivier in the film against all odds and get John Schlesinger an Academy Award-winning director who was, Schlesinger is not the guy at that point you would have ever thought to direct a thriller.

00:10:05.258 --> 00:10:17.638
<v SPEAKER_3>So Evans, as he usually tried to work to elevate it beyond genre like he did with Chinatown, which is kind of more than a run-of-the-mill detective film as it turns out.

00:10:17.638 --> 00:10:26.118
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, it is more of a run-of-the-mill detective film as this is more than the run-of-the-mill thriller.

00:10:26.158 --> 00:10:26.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Thank you, FT.

00:10:26.898 --> 00:10:28.598
<v SPEAKER_4>How's that for feedback, buddy?

00:10:28.598 --> 00:10:30.538
<v SPEAKER_3>That's...

00:10:31.938 --> 00:10:34.618
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm loving your behavior on this podcast.

00:10:34.618 --> 00:10:37.618
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm frying the egg that you are cracking over the skillet.

00:10:37.618 --> 00:10:39.238
<v SPEAKER_4>That's what you should say.

00:10:40.718 --> 00:10:57.958
<v SPEAKER_3>Bill Goldman had already won an Academy Award for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, was a hot screenwriter, but Goldman was a novelist before a screenwriter, and he wanted to write literary fiction.

00:10:58.218 --> 00:11:05.518
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you have any idea who Goldman's literary hero is as a novelist, FT?

00:11:05.518 --> 00:11:07.198
<v SPEAKER_4>I do not.

00:11:07.198 --> 00:11:09.578
<v SPEAKER_3>One, Erwin Shaw.

00:11:10.098 --> 00:11:12.858
<v SPEAKER_3>He probably had other heroes, but really loved Erwin Shaw.

00:11:12.858 --> 00:11:15.278
<v SPEAKER_3>He was writing serious literary fiction.

00:11:15.278 --> 00:11:25.818
<v SPEAKER_3>He had an agent who was only about serious literary fiction, and anytime Goldman tried to bring him any genre stuff, the agent told Goldman to stop writing it.

00:11:25.818 --> 00:11:39.518
<v SPEAKER_3>It was only after Goldman's, this agent died that Goldman wrote Marathon Man and his other, and Magic and Tinsel and his other genre type novels.

00:11:39.518 --> 00:11:42.558
<v SPEAKER_3>But he loves thrillers.

00:11:42.558 --> 00:11:45.118
<v SPEAKER_3>This is Goldman now.

00:11:45.298 --> 00:11:48.778
<v SPEAKER_3>In this thriller genre, do you know who Bill Goldman loved?

00:11:48.778 --> 00:11:50.658
<v SPEAKER_3>It should be easy when you look at Marathon Man.

00:11:51.658 --> 00:11:54.898
<v SPEAKER_4>It's not easy for me, because it's not my cup of fun.

00:11:54.898 --> 00:11:55.578
<v SPEAKER_3>You're going to get this.

00:11:55.578 --> 00:11:56.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Just have confidence, FT.

00:11:57.578 --> 00:12:00.718
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, in terms of writing, let me give you a hint.

00:12:00.718 --> 00:12:01.578
<v SPEAKER_3>Spy thrillers.

00:12:01.578 --> 00:12:04.118
<v SPEAKER_3>Who do you think he really loved?

00:12:04.118 --> 00:12:06.018
<v SPEAKER_3>This is Bill Goldman now.

00:12:06.018 --> 00:12:07.158
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:12:07.158 --> 00:12:08.458
<v SPEAKER_4>Ian Fleming?

00:12:08.458 --> 00:12:09.918
<v SPEAKER_3>Take one more guess, because you're going to get it.

00:12:09.918 --> 00:12:11.118
<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, Le Carre.

00:12:11.118 --> 00:12:12.018
<v SPEAKER_4>Is that his name?

00:12:12.578 --> 00:12:13.618
<v SPEAKER_4>I never read this stuff.

00:12:13.618 --> 00:12:14.678
<v SPEAKER_4>I have no idea.

00:12:15.738 --> 00:12:17.078
<v SPEAKER_3>Graham Greene.

00:12:17.158 --> 00:12:18.498
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, Jesus.

00:12:19.698 --> 00:12:20.178
<v SPEAKER_4>What did he write?

00:12:20.178 --> 00:12:21.378
<v SPEAKER_4>Two of them?

00:12:21.378 --> 00:12:22.198
<v SPEAKER_4>Or a man in Havana?

00:12:22.198 --> 00:12:23.758
<v SPEAKER_4>And what else?

00:12:23.758 --> 00:12:24.158
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know.

00:12:24.278 --> 00:12:25.678
<v SPEAKER_4>The Vietnam one.

00:12:25.678 --> 00:12:27.238
<v SPEAKER_4>The Vietnam one.

00:12:27.238 --> 00:12:28.138
<v SPEAKER_4>No, seriously.

00:12:28.338 --> 00:12:30.438
<v SPEAKER_3>I know, but this is so typical of you.

00:12:30.438 --> 00:12:31.218
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know thrillers.

00:12:31.218 --> 00:12:31.918
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know Graham Greene.

00:12:31.918 --> 00:12:34.458
<v SPEAKER_3>And already, you know more about it than I do.

00:12:34.458 --> 00:12:35.698
<v SPEAKER_4>The Quiet American.

00:12:35.698 --> 00:12:37.158
<v SPEAKER_4>The Quiet American.

00:12:37.158 --> 00:12:40.138
<v SPEAKER_3>So Goldman comes up with this idea.

00:12:40.138 --> 00:12:41.098
<v SPEAKER_3>His agent dies.

00:12:41.098 --> 00:12:43.998
<v SPEAKER_3>He's got this new idea, an idea for a novel.

00:12:44.658 --> 00:12:52.198
<v SPEAKER_3>And the idea for the novel, which became the film Marathon Man, really came in two parts.

00:12:52.298 --> 00:13:01.838
<v SPEAKER_3>The original idea was, what if Joseph Mengele, the angel of death at Auschwitz came to America?

00:13:02.178 --> 00:13:04.358
<v SPEAKER_3>That was the idea he was toying with.

00:13:04.358 --> 00:13:11.118
<v SPEAKER_3>And Mengele was famously in hiding in South America, just like Christian Zell is in this picture.

00:13:11.918 --> 00:13:17.178
<v SPEAKER_3>And so Goldman starts pondering, well, what would cause Mengele to come to America?

00:13:17.178 --> 00:13:18.318
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, it would be dangerous.

00:13:18.318 --> 00:13:20.758
<v SPEAKER_3>He'd be risking everything to come to America.

00:13:20.758 --> 00:13:23.698
<v SPEAKER_3>What could possibly make him come to America?

00:13:23.698 --> 00:13:32.518
<v SPEAKER_3>And the first idea he hit on, which I think was, it was on some other TV show, maybe you'll remind me, was that he had a heart condition.

00:13:32.618 --> 00:13:38.158
<v SPEAKER_3>And there was one doctor, like in Minnesota, that did this operation.

00:13:38.158 --> 00:13:40.498
<v SPEAKER_3>So he had to come to America to save his life.

00:13:40.838 --> 00:13:42.698
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you remember that plot point in some TV?

00:13:42.698 --> 00:13:45.538
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh yeah, it's ringing a bell, but I don't remember the detail.

00:13:45.538 --> 00:13:46.798
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:13:46.798 --> 00:13:47.558
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:13:47.598 --> 00:13:48.258
<v SPEAKER_4>We'll continue.

00:13:48.258 --> 00:13:49.278
<v SPEAKER_4>Maybe it'll pop up.

00:13:49.278 --> 00:13:57.198
<v SPEAKER_3>Or maybe one of our listeners can write in using our website because otherwise we won't be able to sleep until we think of this.

00:13:57.198 --> 00:14:08.118
<v SPEAKER_3>But then we started remembering about, or reading about the Nazi camp dentist who would knock out the gold fillings from the prisoners.

00:14:08.998 --> 00:14:30.258
<v SPEAKER_3>And that gave him the idea that he would have been just like, in the film, the villain would have been the dentist at a concentration camp, taken all this gold, turned it into diamonds, and it's all locked up in a safe deposit box in New York City.

00:14:30.258 --> 00:14:34.558
<v SPEAKER_3>And then the person who's getting all the stuff out from his brother gets killed.

00:14:34.638 --> 00:14:40.418
<v SPEAKER_3>So he has to come to America to recover his riches.

00:14:40.418 --> 00:14:44.378
<v SPEAKER_3>But there was another component to the idea of Marathon Man.

00:14:44.378 --> 00:14:50.658
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think, in a way, that's, well, I like the first idea a lot, but the second one is very interesting to me.

00:14:50.658 --> 00:14:59.398
<v SPEAKER_3>And that idea was, what if someone you loved, what if it turns out that someone you love is not who you thought they were?

00:15:01.238 --> 00:15:10.738
<v SPEAKER_3>And obviously, that's the thread of the Roy Scheider character, Doc, or Scylla, as he's known in the trades.

00:15:11.618 --> 00:15:22.678
<v SPEAKER_3>Babe, the Dustin Hoffman character, thinks his brother is a businessman in the oil business, and it turns out he's working from some dark intelligence agency.

00:15:22.678 --> 00:15:23.658
<v SPEAKER_3>And...

00:15:23.658 --> 00:15:25.358
<v SPEAKER_4>The division, yes.

00:15:25.418 --> 00:15:25.998
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, which...

00:15:25.998 --> 00:15:32.218
<v SPEAKER_4>And also, by the way, that's doubled up with Elsa, with the Marthe Keller, you know, somebody who you love, you don't...

00:15:32.258 --> 00:15:35.538
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, yeah, that's a little bit different, and we're going to talk about that a little bit.

00:15:35.538 --> 00:15:37.478
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, it is different, but because, you know...

00:15:38.078 --> 00:15:39.618
<v SPEAKER_4>She's not his sister.

00:15:39.618 --> 00:15:41.258
<v SPEAKER_4>She's not his brother and sister.

00:15:41.258 --> 00:15:42.738
<v SPEAKER_3>She's his sister and his daughter.

00:15:42.738 --> 00:15:43.338
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:15:43.338 --> 00:15:45.338
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:15:45.538 --> 00:16:03.058
<v SPEAKER_3>It's a little bit different, and we're going to talk about that, because when we get into, you know, the techniques of thrillers, that's kind of one of the stock technique, you know, that's one of the stock cards you can play, is a thriller writer, which is the ally who turns out to be working against you.

00:16:03.058 --> 00:16:05.398
<v SPEAKER_3>And, you know, you see that again.

00:16:05.558 --> 00:16:10.478
<v SPEAKER_3>It's kind of a standard plot twist if you really watch a lot of thrillers.

00:16:10.478 --> 00:16:16.158
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, the friend, the accomplice, who turns out to be working against you, which is what the Marthe Killer character is.

00:16:16.158 --> 00:16:18.158
<v SPEAKER_3>And I want to talk about that a little bit more.

00:16:18.158 --> 00:16:32.338
<v SPEAKER_3>But what do you think about this whole notion, you know, for you, FT, as a snob of finding out someone you love and you thought you knew is completely different than what you thought?

00:16:32.338 --> 00:16:38.578
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you know, I can speak from personal experience that I never knew certain things about you, man.

00:16:38.578 --> 00:16:39.438
<v SPEAKER_4>And I love you.

00:16:39.438 --> 00:16:42.058
<v SPEAKER_4>And when I found out certain things-

00:16:42.058 --> 00:16:43.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Don't say, you promised not to say.

00:16:45.258 --> 00:16:47.178
<v SPEAKER_4>But we've healed, we've healed.

00:16:47.178 --> 00:16:47.918
<v SPEAKER_4>We've moved on.

00:16:47.918 --> 00:16:49.758
<v SPEAKER_4>And no, that's a rough thing.

00:16:49.758 --> 00:16:50.458
<v SPEAKER_4>That's a rough thing.

00:16:50.458 --> 00:16:53.058
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, it's a version of betrayal.

00:16:53.058 --> 00:16:53.718
<v SPEAKER_4>Absolutely.

00:16:53.718 --> 00:16:55.258
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it happens in different degrees.

00:16:55.258 --> 00:17:00.578
<v SPEAKER_4>But in thrillers, it brings it out in the, you know, more obvious focus, you know.

00:17:00.758 --> 00:17:02.678
<v SPEAKER_3>And I guess it's something that's-

00:17:02.678 --> 00:17:08.778
<v SPEAKER_3>it was actually something I was toying with doing as a play years and years ago.

00:17:08.778 --> 00:17:13.558
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think Goldman must have read the same story.

00:17:13.558 --> 00:17:18.978
<v SPEAKER_3>And that's the story of the stomping mayor of, of one of the concentration camps.

00:17:18.978 --> 00:17:20.118
<v SPEAKER_3>Are you familiar with that story?

00:17:20.118 --> 00:17:21.618
<v SPEAKER_4>I am not, no.

00:17:21.618 --> 00:17:21.778
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:17:21.938 --> 00:17:28.658
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's interesting because it's Joseph Lilleyveld, Joe Lilleyveld, who went on to become the editor of the New York Times.

00:17:28.658 --> 00:17:41.018
<v SPEAKER_3>When he was just a young cub reporter at the New York Times, he got a tip that this infamous female prison guard from one of the camps was actually living in one of the boroughs of Manhattan.

00:17:41.018 --> 00:17:47.898
<v SPEAKER_3>And she was notorious just like Mengele was the angel of death and Christian Zell, you know, was the white, what do they call him?

00:17:47.898 --> 00:17:48.498
<v SPEAKER_3>The white angel?

00:17:48.498 --> 00:17:50.478
<v SPEAKER_4>The white angel, Vicer Angle.

00:17:50.478 --> 00:17:52.038
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, yeah.

00:17:52.298 --> 00:17:55.198
<v SPEAKER_3>This prison guard was known as the stomping mare.

00:17:55.198 --> 00:17:58.298
<v SPEAKER_3>She was a female prison guard at one of the camps.

00:17:58.298 --> 00:18:07.658
<v SPEAKER_3>And she was famous for stomping women and children to death using her jack boots, as well as doing other horrible things.

00:18:07.658 --> 00:18:18.398
<v SPEAKER_3>And he had gotten a tip that she was actually somewhere in one of the burrows of New York, that she had gotten married and now she was Mrs.

00:18:18.398 --> 00:18:19.718
<v SPEAKER_3>Ryan.

00:18:19.718 --> 00:18:28.638
<v SPEAKER_3>So Joe Luleavelle gets the phone books and starts going door to door to every Ryan.

00:18:28.638 --> 00:18:29.618
<v SPEAKER_4>To every Ryan, right.

00:18:29.618 --> 00:18:30.738
<v SPEAKER_3>To every Ryan.

00:18:32.338 --> 00:18:37.318
<v SPEAKER_3>And then there would be some woman who would answer his door and say, do you know any other Mrs.

00:18:37.318 --> 00:18:40.358
<v SPEAKER_3>Ryan's maybe with a German accent?

00:18:40.358 --> 00:18:40.958
<v SPEAKER_3>No, seriously.

00:18:41.278 --> 00:18:41.918
<v SPEAKER_4>I believe it.

00:18:42.258 --> 00:18:48.038
<v SPEAKER_3>And he got the tip, oh yeah, there's a woman in Masbeth, Queens, that she talks with a German accent.

00:18:48.038 --> 00:18:48.718
<v SPEAKER_3>She's named Mrs.

00:18:48.718 --> 00:18:49.538
<v SPEAKER_3>Ryan.

00:18:49.538 --> 00:19:02.918
<v SPEAKER_3>So he goes to Masbeth, Queens, in the middle of the day, 1964 this is, rings the doorbell, a woman answers with a German accent and instantly she knows, the gig is up.

00:19:02.918 --> 00:19:07.918
<v SPEAKER_3>She says, I always knew this day would come.

00:19:07.918 --> 00:19:17.338
<v SPEAKER_3>But meanwhile, she's married to this man since the war, who loves her and the neighbors all think she's-

00:19:17.338 --> 00:19:18.778
<v SPEAKER_4>She's such a nice person.

00:19:18.778 --> 00:19:19.158
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:19:19.158 --> 00:19:20.398
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, right, right.

00:19:20.398 --> 00:19:25.338
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, so it was always kind of fascinating to me and I thought it would make an interesting play.

00:19:25.638 --> 00:19:33.178
<v SPEAKER_3>And I'm sure Goldman knew this idea because it was in the New York Times and kind of a famous thing.

00:19:33.178 --> 00:19:33.838
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:19:33.838 --> 00:19:34.618
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:19:34.618 --> 00:19:35.658
<v SPEAKER_4>Hasn't that been done though?

00:19:35.658 --> 00:19:37.778
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, it just really seems familiar.

00:19:37.778 --> 00:19:42.338
<v SPEAKER_4>Like it sounds like, you know, Patty Chayefsky material, you know.

00:19:42.338 --> 00:19:46.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, I find Chayefsky has stolen my best ideas.

00:19:48.278 --> 00:19:49.398
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:49.398 --> 00:19:51.098
<v SPEAKER_4>The dirty rat.

00:19:52.338 --> 00:20:03.458
<v SPEAKER_3>So coming back to the origins, the other big thing and we'll talk about it in a minute, the other big thing of Marathon Man is the dental angle.

00:20:03.458 --> 00:20:10.438
<v SPEAKER_3>And Goldman talked about as a child, he went to a dentist that did not believe in Novocaine and-

00:20:10.438 --> 00:20:11.498
<v SPEAKER_4>Same here, buddy.

00:20:11.498 --> 00:20:12.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Same here.

00:20:12.638 --> 00:20:12.978
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:20:12.978 --> 00:20:13.958
<v SPEAKER_3>So this is going to be interesting.

00:20:14.978 --> 00:20:31.458
<v SPEAKER_3>But Goldman describes as a child, the dentist kneeling on Goldman's, as a child, the dentist would kneel on his chest to hold them down in the chair while he performed his dental work because Goldman was squirming around in pain.

00:20:31.458 --> 00:20:35.358
<v SPEAKER_3>And it was also interesting, you've probably heard this story before FT.

00:20:35.358 --> 00:20:50.098
<v SPEAKER_3>Goldman had the idea, was working on it and went to his periodontist and told the periodontist what he was working on and how the villain would dig in to the protagonist's cavity.

00:20:50.098 --> 00:20:55.938
<v SPEAKER_3>And the periodontist said, no, no, no, Bill, Bill, you gotta have him drill into a fresh tooth.

00:20:55.938 --> 00:20:58.378
<v SPEAKER_2>Right.

00:20:58.398 --> 00:21:00.258
<v SPEAKER_1>Oh, please don't worry.

00:21:00.258 --> 00:21:02.858
<v SPEAKER_7>I'm not going into that cavity again.

00:21:02.858 --> 00:21:04.818
<v SPEAKER_7>That nerve's already dying.

00:21:04.818 --> 00:21:08.478
<v SPEAKER_7>A live, freshly cut nerve is infinitely more sensitive.

00:21:09.758 --> 00:21:15.238
<v SPEAKER_5>So, I'll just drill into a healthy tooth until I reach the pulp.

00:21:15.238 --> 00:21:19.038
<v SPEAKER_5>Unless, of course, you can tell me that it's safe.

00:21:21.738 --> 00:21:27.938
<v SPEAKER_3>And so Goldman took that idea and then forever after was terrified of his periodontist.

00:21:29.238 --> 00:21:32.678
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, it made me terrified to want to see the film again, by the way.

00:21:33.258 --> 00:21:38.738
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, well, we got to talk about the tooth stuff and we're going to get to it in one second, the dental stuff.

00:21:38.738 --> 00:21:48.458
<v SPEAKER_3>But continuing Bill Goldman's story here, Bob Evans, so as you probably, at this point, Bob Evans has his own production.

00:21:48.918 --> 00:21:58.118
<v SPEAKER_3>He's able to, I think he's still ahead of Paramount, but he also has a production deal at Paramount, the first film being Chinatown.

00:21:59.338 --> 00:22:03.238
<v SPEAKER_3>And so he does this film under that deal.

00:22:03.238 --> 00:22:19.158
<v SPEAKER_3>And he's kind of under a lot of pressure at Paramount because Chinatown is so successful, all the other producers are saying, are jealous of him and saying, wait, he's so busy doing his own films, he's not paying attention to other films.

00:22:20.238 --> 00:22:35.198
<v SPEAKER_3>And, but the interest, if you remember the genesis of Evans at Paramount was he, when he took over his head of Paramount, brought in Peter Barth from the New York Times, who was a journalist, and the idea was their whole thing was going to be buying books.

00:22:35.198 --> 00:22:40.158
<v SPEAKER_3>His whole thing was, films are only as good as the source material, so it was all about buying books.

00:22:41.918 --> 00:22:47.978
<v SPEAKER_3>He had sources in every publisher in New York and would always get galleys first.

00:22:47.978 --> 00:23:09.838
<v SPEAKER_3>And so, kind of following those footsteps, he bought Marathon Man, the novel, and Paramount paid in 1975, I think, $500,000 for the rights to the screenwrites for Marathon Man, which included Goldman Screenwriting Services.

00:23:09.878 --> 00:23:11.938
<v SPEAKER_3>FT, a little quiz question for you.

00:23:12.798 --> 00:23:16.418
<v SPEAKER_3>So that was 1975, was $500,000.

00:23:16.418 --> 00:23:18.558
<v SPEAKER_3>What is that in today's dollars?

00:23:18.558 --> 00:23:20.878
<v SPEAKER_4>$3.76 million.

00:23:20.938 --> 00:23:23.718
<v SPEAKER_3>Correct, so you're using a calculator.

00:23:23.718 --> 00:23:25.898
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I just made that number up.

00:23:25.898 --> 00:23:28.418
<v SPEAKER_4>The number of feet in a mile, 2,500 is nothing.

00:23:28.418 --> 00:23:31.618
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's equivalent to $2.8 million.

00:23:31.618 --> 00:23:34.078
<v SPEAKER_3>So quite a payday.

00:23:34.078 --> 00:23:41.618
<v SPEAKER_3>But interesting, that was kind of, as I was reading that, that was one of the times in Hollywood history where books were going for high dollars.

00:23:41.758 --> 00:23:50.278
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it was because this was just Post Jaws, which obviously was a Peter Benchley book that turned into this huge blockbuster.

00:23:50.418 --> 00:23:55.358
<v SPEAKER_3>And so Peter Benchley's next book, which did not turn into a hit, went for huge money.

00:23:55.358 --> 00:24:00.678
<v SPEAKER_3>So kind of genre books from known writers were going for big dollars back then.

00:24:00.678 --> 00:24:01.498
<v SPEAKER_4>Huh.

00:24:01.498 --> 00:24:03.998
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:24:03.998 --> 00:24:06.498
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

00:24:06.498 --> 00:24:19.618
<v SPEAKER_3>So Evans buys the rights for $500,000, decides he wants John Schlesinger to direct it because he loves Midnight Cowboy so much, he wants Schlesinger to direct it again.

00:24:19.718 --> 00:24:31.318
<v SPEAKER_3>Kind of an unusual choice because there's nothing in Midnight Cowboy that would indicate Schlesinger had the chops to do a thriller like Marathon Man, nor do I think there's anything else he had done.

00:24:31.318 --> 00:24:36.698
<v SPEAKER_3>Schlesinger was a document, he's British, and he was a documentary director.

00:24:37.158 --> 00:24:40.978
<v SPEAKER_3>Have you seen any of his earlier films before Midnight Cowboy FT?

00:24:40.978 --> 00:24:41.758
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I did not.

00:24:41.758 --> 00:24:45.878
<v SPEAKER_4>I just saw the one before this, which was a bomb, The Day of the Lucas Nightmare.

00:24:45.958 --> 00:24:46.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:24:46.658 --> 00:24:50.038
<v SPEAKER_4>Which Cunningham also shot, by the way, which is shocking.

00:24:50.038 --> 00:24:51.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, yes.

00:24:51.898 --> 00:24:57.558
<v SPEAKER_3>So nothing really to recommend Schlesinger for this, but I think turned out to be a great choice.

00:24:57.558 --> 00:24:58.118
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, it did.

00:24:58.378 --> 00:25:02.878
<v SPEAKER_3>And Schlesinger comes on, and he has casting ideas for Marathon Man.

00:25:02.878 --> 00:25:16.078
<v SPEAKER_3>He wants to cast Al Pacino as Babe, Julie Christie as Elsa, the character that ended up being played by Marthe Keller, and he wanted Lawrence Olivier for Christian Zell.

00:25:16.298 --> 00:25:19.898
<v SPEAKER_3>So probably that idea actually came from him.

00:25:19.898 --> 00:25:22.278
<v SPEAKER_3>So good credit to Schlesinger there.

00:25:22.278 --> 00:25:25.598
<v SPEAKER_3>Evans always had a thing against Pacino.

00:25:25.598 --> 00:25:26.658
<v SPEAKER_3>He called him the midget.

00:25:26.658 --> 00:25:27.918
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know if you know that.

00:25:27.918 --> 00:25:30.218
<v SPEAKER_4>Why?

00:25:30.358 --> 00:25:36.698
<v SPEAKER_3>I have no idea, but it's interesting because Dustin Hoffman is actually shorter than Al Pacino.

00:25:36.698 --> 00:25:39.738
<v SPEAKER_3>He never wanted Pacino for The Godfather.

00:25:41.318 --> 00:25:43.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Evans was super tight with Dustin Hoffman.

00:25:45.338 --> 00:25:50.458
<v SPEAKER_3>I was trying to find out more about Marathon Man, so I wanted to reread again.

00:25:50.458 --> 00:26:04.358
<v SPEAKER_3>I think for the third time now, Evans' memoir, The Kid Stays in the Picture, which I'm glad it forced me to do it because not only one of the all-time great film books, just one of the all-time great books.

00:26:04.358 --> 00:26:12.158
<v SPEAKER_3>But in that book, every time Evans is in his house, it's always Dustin Hoffman sitting on the couch with Jack Nicholson.

00:26:13.058 --> 00:26:17.558
<v SPEAKER_3>So I think Hoffman was always hanging out there and they're going on vacations together.

00:26:17.558 --> 00:26:19.678
<v SPEAKER_3>So Evans is really tight with Hoffman.

00:26:19.758 --> 00:26:23.318
<v SPEAKER_3>And so Evans says, no, no, no, no Pacino, Hoffman.

00:26:23.318 --> 00:26:28.578
<v SPEAKER_3>Schlesinger fights that tooth and nail because Babe is supposed to be this kid.

00:26:28.578 --> 00:26:33.498
<v SPEAKER_3>He's a Columbia graduate student and Dustin Hoffman's pushing 40.

00:26:33.498 --> 00:26:37.138
<v SPEAKER_3>But Evans insists on Hoffman.

00:26:37.138 --> 00:26:39.138
<v SPEAKER_4>Hoffman was 40 at that point?

00:26:39.138 --> 00:26:40.378
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, I said pushing 40.

00:26:40.798 --> 00:26:41.418
<v SPEAKER_3>He was 29.

00:26:42.298 --> 00:26:45.218
<v SPEAKER_3>No, no, he was 36, I think, at the time.

00:26:45.218 --> 00:26:46.158
<v SPEAKER_4>How about that?

00:26:46.158 --> 00:26:46.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:26:46.758 --> 00:26:48.338
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, interesting.

00:26:49.298 --> 00:26:53.278
<v SPEAKER_3>And Evans is all over Olivier, but it was problematic.

00:26:53.278 --> 00:26:57.958
<v SPEAKER_3>But before we move on, I've got to ask you, how do you think Pacino would have been as Babe in Marathon Man?

00:26:57.958 --> 00:26:59.638
<v SPEAKER_4>He would have been great.

00:26:59.638 --> 00:27:00.718
<v SPEAKER_2>He would have been great.

00:27:00.778 --> 00:27:03.318
<v SPEAKER_3>Let me ask you another question, then.

00:27:03.318 --> 00:27:06.218
<v SPEAKER_3>Would Pacino have been better than Hoffman as Babe?

00:27:06.438 --> 00:27:07.418
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know.

00:27:08.978 --> 00:27:09.698
<v SPEAKER_3>I say yes.

00:27:09.698 --> 00:27:10.658
<v SPEAKER_3>We're going to get into the acting.

00:27:10.658 --> 00:27:13.318
<v SPEAKER_3>I had some problems with Hoffman's performance.

00:27:13.318 --> 00:27:18.838
<v SPEAKER_3>It may sound sacrilegious, but now Pacino is Mr.

00:27:18.838 --> 00:27:19.558
<v SPEAKER_3>Overactor.

00:27:19.558 --> 00:27:20.298
<v SPEAKER_3>Chew the curtains.

00:27:20.298 --> 00:27:25.478
<v SPEAKER_3>But Pacino back then was a lot more controlled, and I think.

00:27:25.478 --> 00:27:31.598
<v SPEAKER_4>It's always hard to tell who's what and where and in what circumstance, maybe.

00:27:31.598 --> 00:27:34.438
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, these hypotheticals are difficult, right?

00:27:35.358 --> 00:27:35.818
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:27:35.818 --> 00:27:37.778
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:27:37.778 --> 00:27:43.398
<v SPEAKER_3>Can you think of any Pacino performances from back then that are flawed?

00:27:43.398 --> 00:27:47.918
<v SPEAKER_4>I think there's a couple movies nobody saw that could be.

00:27:47.918 --> 00:27:49.298
<v SPEAKER_4>You know what I mean?

00:27:50.338 --> 00:27:51.838
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I can't really.

00:27:51.838 --> 00:27:52.698
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:27:52.698 --> 00:27:53.978
<v SPEAKER_4>But how about Dustin Hoffman?

00:27:53.978 --> 00:27:55.738
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know.

00:27:55.738 --> 00:27:59.418
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I'm interested to hear what you got to say what the the weak parts are.

00:27:59.418 --> 00:28:02.038
<v SPEAKER_4>But it does these performance when we get to that.

00:28:02.138 --> 00:28:02.438
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:28:02.438 --> 00:28:02.698
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:28:02.698 --> 00:28:06.318
<v SPEAKER_3>We'll wait on that to keep make sure people don't tune out.

00:28:06.318 --> 00:28:11.218
<v SPEAKER_3>They're hanging on the edge of their seat to hear my sacrilegious comments.

00:28:11.218 --> 00:28:21.978
<v SPEAKER_3>But what's not hypothetical is that they were able to get Olivier, which was incredibly difficult because Olivier was suffering from cancer.

00:28:21.998 --> 00:28:22.358
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:28:22.358 --> 00:28:22.698
<v SPEAKER_4>Sick.

00:28:22.698 --> 00:28:22.978
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:28:22.978 --> 00:28:23.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:28:23.758 --> 00:28:25.158
<v SPEAKER_3>He was uninsurable.

00:28:25.318 --> 00:28:28.158
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you know how insurance works for in the motion picture?

00:28:28.398 --> 00:28:29.518
<v SPEAKER_4>I do not.

00:28:29.518 --> 00:28:36.398
<v SPEAKER_3>So basically, if you're producing a motion picture and you have a star in it, you take out an insurance policy.

00:28:36.398 --> 00:28:45.498
<v SPEAKER_3>So if something happens to the star and they can't complete the picture, and you've got to now reshoot with somebody else, you've got an insurance policy that pays out.

00:28:45.538 --> 00:28:49.058
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, think about how much money they're, you know, worst case scenario.

00:28:49.058 --> 00:28:55.538
<v SPEAKER_3>Think about doing a picture where when you're close to the end of your shooting schedule, the star drops dead.

00:28:55.538 --> 00:28:57.378
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you can usually cut around that.

00:28:57.378 --> 00:29:00.458
<v SPEAKER_4>It's when halfway through would be my nightmare.

00:29:00.458 --> 00:29:01.618
<v SPEAKER_3>But how do you cut around it?

00:29:01.618 --> 00:29:02.538
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, let's say you're shooting.

00:29:02.538 --> 00:29:03.438
<v SPEAKER_4>Hasn't it been done?

00:29:03.438 --> 00:29:04.238
<v SPEAKER_4>Hasn't it been done?

00:29:04.238 --> 00:29:06.578
<v SPEAKER_4>No, people die before and then they...

00:29:07.018 --> 00:29:08.598
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't think I've ever heard that.

00:29:08.718 --> 00:29:14.578
<v SPEAKER_3>And again, especially if you're shooting in continuity, when you're saying you're cutting around it, but if you've never shot the ending.

00:29:15.458 --> 00:29:18.638
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, if you have shot the ending, if you're not doing continuity, yeah, yeah.

00:29:18.638 --> 00:29:19.978
<v SPEAKER_4>Who shoots in continuity?

00:29:19.978 --> 00:29:22.878
<v SPEAKER_4>Beginners.

00:29:22.878 --> 00:29:25.058
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, it's not just beginners.

00:29:25.058 --> 00:29:27.018
<v SPEAKER_3>There's been a lot of films where the director's said...

00:29:27.018 --> 00:29:28.318
<v SPEAKER_4>Can you name...

00:29:28.318 --> 00:29:28.838
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, I can.

00:29:29.258 --> 00:29:29.958
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not thinking...

00:29:29.958 --> 00:29:32.458
<v SPEAKER_4>John Singleton was a beginner when he did Boys in the Hood.

00:29:32.458 --> 00:29:33.998
<v SPEAKER_4>I just saw that.

00:29:35.158 --> 00:29:36.738
<v SPEAKER_4>He shot it in continuity.

00:29:38.018 --> 00:29:39.418
<v SPEAKER_4>Do people understand what this means?

00:29:39.418 --> 00:29:45.038
<v SPEAKER_4>To shoot the film in the sequence in which it's written, you follow the script page by page.

00:29:45.038 --> 00:29:50.118
<v SPEAKER_4>Whereas if you don't shoot in sequence or in continuity, you shoot by location.

00:29:50.118 --> 00:29:57.578
<v SPEAKER_4>So you shoot everything that's in the forest, everything that's in this apartment, beginning, middle, end, all the scenes, and it gets put together in the editing.

00:29:57.578 --> 00:29:58.218
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:29:58.958 --> 00:30:07.798
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's also a thing where, you know, like De Niro in Raging Bull where he's, you know, 50 pounds heavier at the end.

00:30:07.858 --> 00:30:15.278
<v SPEAKER_3>I think, I think they shot that fir, I forget how they did, did they shoot him heavy first and then, or how did they do that?

00:30:15.278 --> 00:30:17.478
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know, but it's a long weight between him.

00:30:17.478 --> 00:30:18.378
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:30:18.378 --> 00:30:19.658
<v SPEAKER_2>You know, yeah, yeah, you're right.

00:30:19.798 --> 00:30:22.978
<v SPEAKER_3>I guess, I guess maybe it's faster to gain 50 pounds.

00:30:22.978 --> 00:30:24.538
<v SPEAKER_3>So I don't know.

00:30:24.538 --> 00:30:26.218
<v SPEAKER_4>Me neither.

00:30:26.218 --> 00:30:27.798
<v SPEAKER_4>You should do that as an experiment.

00:30:27.798 --> 00:30:32.458
<v SPEAKER_3>No, you always want, I remember you did this on American Hustle, you wanted me to do weight experiments.

00:30:32.458 --> 00:30:33.818
<v SPEAKER_3>Stop, stop suggesting it.

00:30:35.098 --> 00:30:39.078
<v SPEAKER_3>So, so Olivier is uninsurable.

00:30:39.078 --> 00:30:42.878
<v SPEAKER_3>And so Schlesinger comes up with another casting idea for Christian Zell.

00:30:42.878 --> 00:30:45.358
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you know who that was, FT?

00:30:45.358 --> 00:30:47.138
<v SPEAKER_4>Richard Widmark.

00:30:47.138 --> 00:30:48.518
<v SPEAKER_3>Very good.

00:30:48.518 --> 00:30:49.938
<v SPEAKER_3>Very good.

00:30:50.338 --> 00:30:52.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Are you feeling pretty cocky right now that you got that correct?

00:30:53.358 --> 00:30:55.218
<v SPEAKER_3>There's another trivia question you're about to get.

00:30:55.218 --> 00:30:56.178
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:30:56.178 --> 00:30:57.338
<v SPEAKER_4>All right, hit me.

00:30:57.338 --> 00:30:58.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:30:59.838 --> 00:31:03.058
<v SPEAKER_3>Who was Richard Widmark's daughter married to?

00:31:04.438 --> 00:31:05.258
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, Jesus.

00:31:05.698 --> 00:31:10.678
<v SPEAKER_3>Put it another way, who is Richard Widmark's daughter's husband?

00:31:12.478 --> 00:31:15.598
<v SPEAKER_4>Just so they understood what being married to means.

00:31:18.478 --> 00:31:19.578
<v SPEAKER_4>I have no idea.

00:31:19.578 --> 00:31:20.538
<v SPEAKER_4>Who?

00:31:20.538 --> 00:31:24.538
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, before I answer that, I don't like your condescending tone.

00:31:24.598 --> 00:31:26.418
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't like your Thrasaurus attitude.

00:31:27.438 --> 00:31:32.818
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I don't like your condescending tone where you're like, I had to explain what being married to the husband was.

00:31:32.818 --> 00:31:39.398
<v SPEAKER_3>Because basically, when we were doing the 100 lines, you were so confused about what was better, what was worse.

00:31:39.398 --> 00:31:42.138
<v SPEAKER_3>So I mean, I need to really spell things out for you.

00:31:42.538 --> 00:31:43.398
<v SPEAKER_4>You should, you shouldn't.

00:31:43.398 --> 00:31:44.218
<v SPEAKER_4>I appreciate it.

00:31:44.218 --> 00:31:45.158
<v SPEAKER_4>I appreciate it.

00:31:45.178 --> 00:31:47.378
<v SPEAKER_3>So answer the question, stop beating around the bush.

00:31:47.378 --> 00:31:50.158
<v SPEAKER_3>Who was Richard Widmark's daughter married to?

00:31:50.158 --> 00:31:51.138
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know, I don't know.

00:31:51.138 --> 00:31:51.918
<v SPEAKER_3>Take a guess.

00:31:51.918 --> 00:31:52.958
<v SPEAKER_4>John Huston.

00:31:52.958 --> 00:31:55.338
<v SPEAKER_3>Correct.

00:31:55.338 --> 00:31:56.778
<v SPEAKER_3>No, Sandy Kofax.

00:31:58.278 --> 00:31:59.858
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, really?

00:31:59.858 --> 00:32:01.578
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, it's a pretty good trivia question, isn't it?

00:32:01.578 --> 00:32:02.878
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, it is a good one.

00:32:02.878 --> 00:32:07.918
<v SPEAKER_4>Hey, what college, didn't Richard Widmark go to Wake Forest?

00:32:07.918 --> 00:32:11.118
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, he's a college graduate, I believe.

00:32:11.118 --> 00:32:13.938
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, he was a college guy, I believe.

00:32:13.938 --> 00:32:16.278
<v SPEAKER_4>Somebody look it up and let me know if I'm wrong.

00:32:16.278 --> 00:32:21.418
<v SPEAKER_3>Was that a shout out to the Trump administration to stop all their plans to defund colleges?

00:32:21.418 --> 00:32:25.098
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh yeah, I was absolutely veiled, so veiled that I didn't even know it.

00:32:25.838 --> 00:32:30.518
<v SPEAKER_4>He might have taught, is what I thought I heard or read.

00:32:30.518 --> 00:32:33.578
<v SPEAKER_4>The man who tossed the poor woman down in the-

00:32:33.798 --> 00:32:35.278
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, the wheelchair.

00:32:35.278 --> 00:32:37.018
<v SPEAKER_4>The wheelchair down the stairs.

00:32:37.018 --> 00:32:37.578
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:32:37.578 --> 00:32:39.658
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:32:39.658 --> 00:32:46.738
<v SPEAKER_3>So no insurance, and again, you just insure your actors for the number of weeks they're going to be in the production.

00:32:46.738 --> 00:32:50.278
<v SPEAKER_3>So for Olivier's part, it was going to be six weeks of shooting.

00:32:50.558 --> 00:32:52.978
<v SPEAKER_3>None of the production insurance companies would insure.

00:32:54.478 --> 00:32:55.878
<v SPEAKER_3>That was the state of Olivier's health.

00:32:55.878 --> 00:33:02.298
<v SPEAKER_3>It was so dire that nobody would even give him six weeks of insurance.

00:33:02.298 --> 00:33:03.518
<v SPEAKER_4>Wow.

00:33:03.518 --> 00:33:13.518
<v SPEAKER_3>So Bob Evans does a Bob Evans, and he calls David Niven and Merle Oberon.

00:33:15.118 --> 00:33:18.818
<v SPEAKER_3>And he says, get me a meeting with the House of Lords in England.

00:33:19.238 --> 00:33:20.078
<v SPEAKER_3>And they do it.

00:33:20.078 --> 00:33:28.658
<v SPEAKER_3>He flies to the House of Lords, and he asks the House of Lords to lean on Lloyds of London to issue the insurance for Olivier.

00:33:28.658 --> 00:33:35.238
<v SPEAKER_3>Probably couched it as, you know, it's a British thing, and Olivier is Sir Lawrence Olivier, you're doing it for your country.

00:33:35.238 --> 00:33:42.098
<v SPEAKER_3>And Lloyds of London agrees to insure Olivier for six weeks, and he's able to do the film.

00:33:42.098 --> 00:33:45.398
<v SPEAKER_3>How much do you know about Lloyds of London, FT.?

00:33:45.398 --> 00:33:47.158
<v SPEAKER_4>Nothing.

00:33:47.158 --> 00:33:47.918
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, you know it's nothing.

00:33:47.918 --> 00:33:49.258
<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, I know two things.

00:33:49.258 --> 00:33:49.478
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:33:49.918 --> 00:33:54.018
<v SPEAKER_4>It's something to do with Lloyds, and it's based in London.

00:33:54.018 --> 00:33:55.018
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, so you do know.

00:33:55.138 --> 00:33:55.918
<v SPEAKER_4>I do know.

00:33:56.698 --> 00:33:57.818
<v SPEAKER_3>So it's an insurance company.

00:33:57.818 --> 00:33:59.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I know it's an insurance company.

00:33:59.618 --> 00:34:23.798
<v SPEAKER_3>But it's actually pretty interesting, because I believe the history of it, it started out, you know, it started out, I think in like the, I always get dates mixed up, but it's like the 16th century, the age would the British age of exploration, was that when British, Britain was sending, you know, ships sailing all over to explore, and bring back the 16th century or 17th century, something like that.

00:34:23.818 --> 00:34:26.798
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, the 1600s and 1700s, yes.

00:34:26.818 --> 00:34:28.378
<v SPEAKER_4>17th century and 18th century.

00:34:28.378 --> 00:34:33.418
<v SPEAKER_3>So it started out basically as a bar, as a pub.

00:34:33.418 --> 00:34:44.298
<v SPEAKER_3>And it was like a form of gambling, where everybody would gather at this pub, and they would have a list of ships that were sailing to Indonesia, South America.

00:34:44.298 --> 00:34:49.298
<v SPEAKER_3>And you would say, I think they're gonna make it back, or I think they're not gonna make it back.

00:34:49.298 --> 00:34:50.158
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, my God.

00:34:50.158 --> 00:34:50.558
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:34:50.558 --> 00:34:55.498
<v SPEAKER_3>And so it was basically an insurance business for these ships, but it was really gambling.

00:34:55.498 --> 00:34:58.378
<v SPEAKER_3>And then it formed, you know, the people were good at it.

00:34:58.378 --> 00:35:01.678
<v SPEAKER_3>They formed the, it's basically like a conglom-

00:35:01.678 --> 00:35:12.838
<v SPEAKER_3>or at least it was, was, Lloyds of London was basically like this big hall, where all that you would go in and, you know, people would, you know, if you wanted something insured, some person would say, oh yeah, I'll take 10% of that.

00:35:12.898 --> 00:35:14.718
<v SPEAKER_3>And somebody will say, oh, I'll get on that too.

00:35:14.718 --> 00:35:16.618
<v SPEAKER_3>And that was Lloyds of London.

00:35:16.618 --> 00:35:18.958
<v SPEAKER_3>And now they're insuring Lawrence Olivier.

00:35:18.958 --> 00:35:23.838
<v SPEAKER_3>This historical educational bit was brought to you by They Shoot Films.

00:35:23.838 --> 00:35:24.798
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, indeed.

00:35:24.798 --> 00:35:25.678
<v SPEAKER_4>That's a good one.

00:35:25.678 --> 00:35:33.518
<v SPEAKER_4>So wait, how does that work that you would bet, I'll bet it's going to come back from China.

00:35:33.518 --> 00:35:34.038
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:35:34.038 --> 00:35:34.778
<v SPEAKER_3>And so-

00:35:34.938 --> 00:35:38.498
<v SPEAKER_4>So I put up like 10,000 pounds.

00:35:38.498 --> 00:35:39.038
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:35:39.178 --> 00:35:45.678
<v SPEAKER_3>And so if it doesn't come back, I guess then the money goes to the person on the other side.

00:35:47.058 --> 00:35:50.598
<v SPEAKER_4>And the objects for the people that paid for whatever they were buying.

00:35:51.158 --> 00:35:52.478
<v SPEAKER_4>The tea in China.

00:35:52.498 --> 00:35:52.878
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:35:53.218 --> 00:35:54.278
<v SPEAKER_4>Half the tea in China.

00:35:54.278 --> 00:35:56.078
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:35:56.078 --> 00:35:58.298
<v SPEAKER_4>0.7.

00:35:58.338 --> 00:35:59.858
<v SPEAKER_3>For Elsa, sorry.

00:35:59.858 --> 00:36:05.718
<v SPEAKER_3>Elsa Schlesinger wanted, do you know who Schlesinger, you've been good at who Schlesinger wanted.

00:36:05.718 --> 00:36:06.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's see if you get this.

00:36:06.498 --> 00:36:12.238
<v SPEAKER_3>Who did Schlesinger want for the Elsa character that originally the part that went to Marthe Keller?

00:36:12.238 --> 00:36:15.318
<v SPEAKER_4>Now, this will be a test for our listeners.

00:36:15.318 --> 00:36:16.658
<v SPEAKER_4>Because you already said it.

00:36:16.658 --> 00:36:17.958
<v SPEAKER_4>Julie Christie.

00:36:21.218 --> 00:36:23.018
<v SPEAKER_3>That was excellent memory skills there.

00:36:24.318 --> 00:36:25.578
<v SPEAKER_4>But that was a ruse.

00:36:25.578 --> 00:36:26.298
<v SPEAKER_4>You were wrong.

00:36:26.298 --> 00:36:26.958
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I guess.

00:36:26.958 --> 00:36:28.878
<v SPEAKER_4>Jacqueline Bessette.

00:36:28.878 --> 00:36:29.478
<v SPEAKER_3>No, there was.

00:36:29.478 --> 00:36:29.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Good.

00:36:29.898 --> 00:36:33.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, there was so I don't know what happened to Julie Christie, but he wanted somebody else for Elsa.

00:36:33.898 --> 00:36:36.018
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's kind of interesting.

00:36:36.018 --> 00:36:37.198
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, besides Julie?

00:36:37.238 --> 00:36:37.458
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:36:37.478 --> 00:36:39.838
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, oh, I have no idea.

00:36:39.838 --> 00:36:41.098
<v SPEAKER_3>Charlotte Rampling.

00:36:41.098 --> 00:36:42.378
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, yeah, of course.

00:36:42.378 --> 00:36:43.218
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, wow.

00:36:43.218 --> 00:36:52.238
<v SPEAKER_3>But it's it's fascinating to ponder that it would it if she had taken the part, it would have probably changed film history.

00:36:52.818 --> 00:36:54.098
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you know what I'm getting at there after?

00:36:54.098 --> 00:36:55.018
<v SPEAKER_4>I do not.

00:36:55.018 --> 00:36:57.338
<v SPEAKER_3>So do you remember the film The Verdict?

00:36:57.338 --> 00:36:58.638
<v SPEAKER_3>This the Sidney Lumet film?

00:36:58.638 --> 00:37:00.438
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, yes, of course.

00:37:00.438 --> 00:37:08.018
<v SPEAKER_3>So that character, again, fulfills this role of the ally, the lover who's actually the spy who's working.

00:37:08.018 --> 00:37:09.078
<v SPEAKER_3>So it's the same.

00:37:09.078 --> 00:37:13.918
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the same archetype for a character as the Elsa character.

00:37:13.918 --> 00:37:25.438
<v SPEAKER_3>So I would have to think if she did play the Elsa character in 76, she would have had to turn down the part in Lumet's Verdict, which would be, I think, very sad because she's perfect in the Verdict.

00:37:25.438 --> 00:37:26.218
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, she's great in that.

00:37:26.218 --> 00:37:27.738
<v SPEAKER_4>Good catch there, Ken.

00:37:27.738 --> 00:37:29.398
<v SPEAKER_3>Wow.

00:37:29.398 --> 00:37:45.698
<v SPEAKER_3>Last story before we start digging into the film itself, the movie opens, and I think like three weeks later, a month later, Bill Goldman decides he wants to sneak into a theater and watch it with an audience.

00:37:45.738 --> 00:37:52.638
<v SPEAKER_3>So he goes into a, I don't know if you know, Goldman was always New York based, never was in Hollywood.

00:37:52.638 --> 00:37:58.618
<v SPEAKER_3>He sneaks into a theater in Manhattan, sits in his favorite place to watch the audience.

00:37:58.618 --> 00:38:02.998
<v SPEAKER_3>His favorite place to sit is like the last row, so he can get up and leave.

00:38:02.998 --> 00:38:10.318
<v SPEAKER_3>And he's watching the movie play, and people, the audience just starts streaming out.

00:38:11.478 --> 00:38:15.758
<v SPEAKER_3>And Goldman's just dying because he's like, I can't believe they're leaving, you know, it's going to live.

00:38:15.758 --> 00:38:21.878
<v SPEAKER_3>They're going to, there's so much great stuff in this movie, and they're just walking out on it, and he's just dying.

00:38:21.878 --> 00:38:22.778
<v SPEAKER_3>Huh.

00:38:22.778 --> 00:38:23.398
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:38:23.398 --> 00:38:27.778
<v SPEAKER_3>And then he just sits there, and he's completely bummed out.

00:38:27.778 --> 00:38:32.358
<v SPEAKER_3>And then everybody starts coming back in with popcorn and drinks.

00:38:33.938 --> 00:38:41.478
<v SPEAKER_3>And what he realized was the word of mouth on the picture about the dental scene, people just said, I'm not going to be able to take.

00:38:41.478 --> 00:38:50.178
<v SPEAKER_3>And so they had, everybody planned, okay, when the dental scene is going to happen, I'm going to walk out and go to the bathroom, get popcorn, I don't want to have to see that.

00:38:50.178 --> 00:38:51.138
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:38:51.158 --> 00:38:52.418
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh my God.

00:38:52.418 --> 00:38:55.718
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that was my initial concern about when you said, let's do this.

00:38:55.718 --> 00:38:57.578
<v SPEAKER_4>I was like, nope.

00:38:57.578 --> 00:39:03.458
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, I know you were very afraid to watch the film because the dental sequence.

00:39:03.458 --> 00:39:08.958
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's interesting that, well, I guess the question for you, I'll skip around here.

00:39:10.758 --> 00:39:17.398
<v SPEAKER_3>If this film didn't have the dental torture scene, would it be forgotten today?

00:39:17.578 --> 00:39:22.578
<v SPEAKER_3>Would it have been a, first of all, do you think the book would have even sold without the dental scene?

00:39:22.578 --> 00:39:25.398
<v SPEAKER_3>Would it have become a hit without the dental scene?

00:39:25.398 --> 00:39:27.858
<v SPEAKER_3>Would we be rewatching it today?

00:39:27.858 --> 00:39:31.898
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, the dental scene just seems like the hook for this film.

00:39:31.898 --> 00:39:33.018
<v SPEAKER_4>It is.

00:39:33.018 --> 00:39:33.138
<v SPEAKER_2>No?

00:39:33.138 --> 00:39:33.738
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:39:33.738 --> 00:39:36.358
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, it is the hook, so to speak.

00:39:36.358 --> 00:39:37.858
<v SPEAKER_4>It's to pick the hook.

00:39:38.438 --> 00:39:38.738
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:39:38.738 --> 00:39:39.698
<v SPEAKER_2>And to drill.

00:39:39.698 --> 00:39:40.638
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes.

00:39:40.638 --> 00:39:41.498
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I don't think so.

00:39:41.498 --> 00:39:47.698
<v SPEAKER_4>There's, you know, and it's interesting that when you really look at screen time, it's not really that long.

00:39:47.698 --> 00:39:50.138
<v SPEAKER_4>It's just, it's just pretty well done.

00:39:50.798 --> 00:39:53.738
<v SPEAKER_4>And the problem is, it's like Polanski's Tenet.

00:39:53.738 --> 00:40:00.058
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, when Polanski throws himself off the roof the first time, nobody believes that he's going to crawl back up and jump off the second time.

00:40:00.058 --> 00:40:10.878
<v SPEAKER_4>And so I forgot there were two sequences, you know, two times when the Vite Angle, Vice Angle drills him to dust his teeth.

00:40:10.878 --> 00:40:11.838
<v SPEAKER_4>And that's what shocked me.

00:40:11.838 --> 00:40:14.378
<v SPEAKER_4>I was just like, oh, it's over after the first one.

00:40:14.378 --> 00:40:15.518
<v SPEAKER_4>And he escapes.

00:40:15.518 --> 00:40:19.218
<v SPEAKER_4>I had forgotten that the whole Devane business, you know, is a double agent.

00:40:19.218 --> 00:40:19.778
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:40:19.778 --> 00:40:28.938
<v SPEAKER_3>That is again, because of this, you know, you know, the nature of fear is so much of it is the anticipation of what's about to happen.

00:40:28.938 --> 00:40:37.078
<v SPEAKER_3>And so the brilliance of that design, and I've got some quibbles with that whole, you know, Devane rescues him, brings him back.

00:40:37.078 --> 00:40:46.518
<v SPEAKER_3>But it's brilliant in terms of a suspense technique, because, you know, when he comes back, the audience is, you know, especially in an audience scene for the first time, is just, you know, he's back.

00:40:46.518 --> 00:40:55.118
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think in the book, the way Goldman writes it, you know, he writes that scene, the Janey character takes him in the car.

00:40:55.118 --> 00:41:01.238
<v SPEAKER_3>And then I think the chapter ends with Goldman saying, 12 minutes later, he was back in the chair.

00:41:01.238 --> 00:41:02.498
<v SPEAKER_3>And that's the end of the chapter.

00:41:02.498 --> 00:41:06.818
<v SPEAKER_3>So, you know, the notion is, he's, you know, we've gone through it once and now we're back to it again.

00:41:06.818 --> 00:41:15.098
<v SPEAKER_3>It's almost like it's a worse, you know, the prospect of the second time knowing what's gonna happen is worse probably than the first time.

00:41:15.538 --> 00:41:25.438
<v SPEAKER_3>And we know that because Babes' response to Zell, in the first, you know, he's like, you know, you're gonna have to be more specific about what, you know, is it safe?

00:41:27.258 --> 00:41:29.998
<v SPEAKER_3>You're gonna have to be more specific about what you're referring to, you know.

00:41:29.998 --> 00:41:36.598
<v SPEAKER_3>So he's light at the beginning, but I'm sure he's not gonna be so light the second time he goes back in the chair.

00:41:36.598 --> 00:41:43.098
<v SPEAKER_3>But playing on this fear of dentists was a brilliant idea for Goldman.

00:41:44.478 --> 00:41:49.798
<v SPEAKER_3>FT, do you have any idea what percentage of the population has a fear of going to the dentist?

00:41:49.898 --> 00:41:51.258
<v SPEAKER_4>63 percent.

00:41:51.258 --> 00:41:51.938
<v SPEAKER_3>Correct.

00:41:51.938 --> 00:41:54.978
<v SPEAKER_3>How do you know all the stuff off the top of your head?

00:41:54.978 --> 00:41:56.998
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's 30 percent of the population.

00:41:56.998 --> 00:41:57.758
<v SPEAKER_4>That's all?

00:41:57.758 --> 00:41:59.018
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, 30 percent.

00:41:59.018 --> 00:42:00.078
<v SPEAKER_4>That's bullshit.

00:42:00.078 --> 00:42:02.578
<v SPEAKER_4>Everybody's acting, they're lying.

00:42:02.578 --> 00:42:02.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:42:02.898 --> 00:42:06.098
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, can we jump to the opening scene?

00:42:06.098 --> 00:42:06.558
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:42:06.558 --> 00:42:07.178
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:42:07.178 --> 00:42:08.138
<v SPEAKER_4>The opening scene?

00:42:08.138 --> 00:42:10.058
<v SPEAKER_3>The opening sequence, really.

00:42:10.058 --> 00:42:10.718
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:42:10.718 --> 00:42:16.598
<v SPEAKER_3>My first question for you, my friend, does it work, the opening sequence?

00:42:17.138 --> 00:42:20.818
<v SPEAKER_4>Now, you're talking about the road rage chase.

00:42:20.818 --> 00:42:33.578
<v SPEAKER_4>Whereas that's really not the opening, because the actual, the exact opening is Klaus Zell at the safe deposit box, which is something you forget.

00:42:33.578 --> 00:42:34.758
<v SPEAKER_4>You forget, right?

00:42:34.758 --> 00:42:36.878
<v SPEAKER_4>And I wrote down a note about that.

00:42:36.878 --> 00:42:38.498
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't remember that.

00:42:38.498 --> 00:42:39.438
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:42:39.438 --> 00:42:39.818
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry.

00:42:39.818 --> 00:42:47.938
<v SPEAKER_3>Just to work clear, I'm saying the opening sequence, so yes, it includes Klaus Zell at the safe deposit box and ends with the explosion.

00:42:47.938 --> 00:42:51.198
<v SPEAKER_3>Actually, it doesn't end with the explosion of the oil truck.

00:42:51.198 --> 00:42:59.118
<v SPEAKER_3>It explodes, I'll say it officially ends with Dustin Hoffman running around the reservoir and seeing the explosion.

00:42:59.118 --> 00:42:59.878
<v SPEAKER_3>That's where it ends.

00:42:59.878 --> 00:43:01.078
<v SPEAKER_3>That whole sequence doesn't work.

00:43:01.258 --> 00:43:01.678
<v SPEAKER_3>Doesn't work.

00:43:01.678 --> 00:43:02.178
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:43:02.178 --> 00:43:02.578
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:43:02.578 --> 00:43:03.198
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, it does.

00:43:03.198 --> 00:43:04.198
<v SPEAKER_4>For me, it works.

00:43:04.198 --> 00:43:11.978
<v SPEAKER_4>But it actually also ends when he's back in his apartment where you hear that it's John Kipor on the television, which is Goldman's disclosure.

00:43:11.978 --> 00:43:17.958
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, we're going to get there in a second because I think that you're getting at what works for the scene.

00:43:17.958 --> 00:43:34.018
<v SPEAKER_3>For me, the scene, the sequence is flawed because the Jewish character and the German, Zell's brother, the German character, the road rage, I feel is so over the top and so unmotivated that I feel it's unfortunate.

00:43:35.578 --> 00:43:36.918
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

00:43:36.918 --> 00:43:39.758
<v SPEAKER_4>I guess there is a part of me is let it go.

00:43:40.298 --> 00:43:43.618
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, right now you let it go, but it is it's over the top.

00:43:43.618 --> 00:44:00.598
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think if you read the novel, it's a good it's a good example of the written written word novels versus film and the difficulty of adaptations and especially the the difficulty of a writer adapting their own works.

00:44:00.598 --> 00:44:03.618
<v SPEAKER_3>Because in this case, Goldman was adapting his own novel.

00:44:03.618 --> 00:44:07.698
<v SPEAKER_3>So in the book, it's it's all interior.

00:44:07.978 --> 00:44:11.658
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the Jewish character whose name Rosenbaum.

00:44:11.658 --> 00:44:20.198
<v SPEAKER_3>It's just inside his head about everything that's going on as he's driving that day and and it spins back into his life.

00:44:20.198 --> 00:44:31.878
<v SPEAKER_3>So his action, you know, ramming the German guy is is motivated in the book, whereas in the film, it's like it comes it's like comes out of nowhere almost when he rams the German guy.

00:44:32.098 --> 00:44:33.078
<v SPEAKER_4>No, no, no.

00:44:33.078 --> 00:44:35.018
<v SPEAKER_4>Here's the German accent.

00:44:35.018 --> 00:44:36.358
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, right.

00:44:36.358 --> 00:44:38.538
<v SPEAKER_4>It's more motivated than you think.

00:44:38.538 --> 00:44:40.378
<v SPEAKER_4>You're a goddamn menace.

00:44:40.378 --> 00:44:43.138
<v SPEAKER_7>You know that, you senile old cocker.

00:45:16.140 --> 00:45:21.240
<v SPEAKER_3>So, FT., every time you hear a German accent, do you ram the driver in front of you?

00:45:21.240 --> 00:45:23.020
<v SPEAKER_3>Is that motivation for what he did?

00:45:23.020 --> 00:45:24.080
<v SPEAKER_4>What if I do?

00:45:24.080 --> 00:45:33.220
<v SPEAKER_3>Even if he hears a German, even if he hears a German accent, to ram the guy, to chase him through the city, to me, it felt unmotivated because it's all interior in the book.

00:45:33.220 --> 00:45:42.200
<v SPEAKER_3>And I just feel like it, I could see, again, for Goldman, it's his work, not killing his darlings, for Schlesinger, oh boy, again.

00:45:42.600 --> 00:45:49.560
<v SPEAKER_3>But why not just have, you know, just set up Christian Zell's brother, you know, that he's got, and let him fucking die.

00:45:49.560 --> 00:45:50.440
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, he dies.

00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:53.380
<v SPEAKER_3>It doesn't have to be this car chase.

00:45:53.380 --> 00:45:55.800
<v SPEAKER_2>True.

00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:57.760
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, right.

00:45:57.980 --> 00:46:08.780
<v SPEAKER_3>But coming back to the opening sequence, what I think is good, which you pointed out, is the way that opening sequence ties all these elements together.

00:46:09.120 --> 00:46:25.860
<v SPEAKER_3>So, this random road rage and the death of Christian Zell's brother ties us into the protagonist, Gabe, sorry, Babe, because he's running around the reservoir, happens to see the aftermath of the explosion.

00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:35.720
<v SPEAKER_3>Then we're at Babe's apartment, and he turns on the news, and we learn that it's Christian, the famous Nazi, Christian Zell's brother who dies, right?

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:37.180
<v SPEAKER_3>Isn't that set up on the newscast?

00:46:37.180 --> 00:46:38.420
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, yeah, it is.

00:46:38.420 --> 00:46:45.900
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, so a lot of information there, and tying everything together, that works great.

00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:50.560
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, you have to say about the screenplay that it's an incredibly tight screenplay.

00:46:50.560 --> 00:46:51.180
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, it is.

00:46:51.360 --> 00:47:00.460
<v SPEAKER_3>And if you put a stopwatch on the first 30 minutes of this film, it's unbelievable how much information and how many things get set up in 30 minutes.

00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:05.200
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think even in the first 30 minutes, the other thing is we get the romance set up.

00:47:06.380 --> 00:47:09.880
<v SPEAKER_3>The romance is so efficient.

00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:19.060
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, it's much like my own marriage that, you know, I met my wife and then, you know, within minutes, married children, the whole deal.

00:47:20.580 --> 00:47:22.200
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, the romance is problematic.

00:47:22.200 --> 00:47:25.640
<v SPEAKER_4>But, I mean, yours is wonderful.

00:47:25.640 --> 00:47:28.260
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I didn't mean to say it was problematic.

00:47:28.260 --> 00:47:30.560
<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, you didn't mean to say it was not problematic.

00:47:31.560 --> 00:47:44.340
<v SPEAKER_3>I like the account, you know, too many writers, if they do the romance, you know, it's like, I gotta have this scene and this scene and they gotta have roses and they gotta take baths together and they have to, you know, soap up each other's backs.

00:47:44.340 --> 00:47:45.540
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you do.

00:47:45.540 --> 00:47:50.420
<v SPEAKER_4>But, you know, look at, like, you know, you've never seen a road rage maniacs in New York.

00:47:50.420 --> 00:47:54.100
<v SPEAKER_4>And although you lived in New York there for a while, you know, wait, can I inject one thing?

00:47:54.100 --> 00:47:55.540
<v SPEAKER_4>Can I say something?

00:47:55.560 --> 00:47:56.780
<v SPEAKER_4>You said two minutes and three.

00:47:56.780 --> 00:47:58.760
<v SPEAKER_3>Can I say something before you interrupt me?

00:47:58.760 --> 00:47:58.880
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:00.820
<v SPEAKER_3>Can I say something before you interrupt me?

00:48:00.820 --> 00:48:03.620
<v SPEAKER_3>I was a road rage maniac in New York.

00:48:03.620 --> 00:48:04.980
<v SPEAKER_4>Road rage.

00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:08.120
<v SPEAKER_3>I was a road rage maniac in New York, motherfucker.

00:48:08.120 --> 00:48:10.800
<v SPEAKER_4>I was a teenage road rage maniac in New York.

00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:11.560
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, what are you gonna say?

00:48:11.560 --> 00:48:12.460
<v SPEAKER_3>What were you gonna say?

00:48:12.460 --> 00:48:18.740
<v SPEAKER_4>At the beginning, when Klaus Zell is getting the safe, you know, he closes the box.

00:48:18.740 --> 00:48:22.400
<v SPEAKER_4>I noticed this, when I watched it the first time, I'm like, oh my God.

00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:29.360
<v SPEAKER_4>He stops, when the guard opens the gate up, he gives like a sort of a thank you, and it's a Nazi salute.

00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:30.180
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, really?

00:48:30.180 --> 00:48:32.080
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, because it's the only way.

00:48:32.080 --> 00:48:35.520
<v SPEAKER_3>It's like Elon Musk, Elon Musk.

00:48:35.520 --> 00:48:40.540
<v SPEAKER_4>It's the only way he knows how to like, respond to somebody in a uniform.

00:48:40.540 --> 00:48:42.080
<v SPEAKER_4>A thank you.

00:48:42.080 --> 00:48:44.140
<v SPEAKER_4>It was weird, I looked at it a couple of times.

00:48:44.140 --> 00:48:46.420
<v SPEAKER_3>That is a nice character, good one FT.

00:48:46.700 --> 00:48:51.180
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you were saying about economy of like, you know, disclosure of character stuff.

00:48:51.180 --> 00:48:57.740
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, it's missed, but boy, you know, when you're now, it's missed, but not by old eagle eyes Kosempa.

00:48:57.740 --> 00:49:04.920
<v SPEAKER_4>Old eagle eyes, you know, and now everybody will, you know, see it and go like, wow, I don't need to see the rest of the movie.

00:49:06.040 --> 00:49:08.700
<v SPEAKER_4>I gave it away, you know.

00:49:08.700 --> 00:49:10.360
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:14.180
<v SPEAKER_3>Can we move on to the Roy Scheider Paris attack scene?

00:49:14.180 --> 00:49:15.300
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes.

00:49:15.640 --> 00:49:21.120
<v SPEAKER_3>There's a couple of homages, as the French like to say, in this scene.

00:49:21.220 --> 00:49:23.840
<v SPEAKER_3>And can you name them?

00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:25.160
<v SPEAKER_4>In the...

00:49:26.240 --> 00:49:29.080
<v SPEAKER_3>In the Doc Paris attack.

00:49:29.080 --> 00:49:30.560
<v SPEAKER_4>The pink panther.

00:49:30.560 --> 00:49:31.620
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:49:32.220 --> 00:49:36.360
<v SPEAKER_4>And I'm going to be, I'm very interested in what you think are homages.

00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:36.680
<v SPEAKER_4>Go ahead.

00:49:36.680 --> 00:49:37.600
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:49:37.600 --> 00:49:41.620
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, so first of all, so this is a thriller.

00:49:41.620 --> 00:49:43.480
<v SPEAKER_3>We've already said that.

00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:49.040
<v SPEAKER_3>If John Schlesinger is directing his first thriller, who's he going to pay homage to?

00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:50.840
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:51.580
<v SPEAKER_4>Who?

00:49:51.580 --> 00:49:55.580
<v SPEAKER_3>Hitchcock, rear window, with the guy in the wheelchair witnessing the murder.

00:49:55.580 --> 00:49:56.580
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, cross the way.

00:49:56.580 --> 00:49:57.220
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:49:57.220 --> 00:49:57.740
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:49:57.740 --> 00:49:58.060
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:49:58.060 --> 00:49:58.740
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:49:58.740 --> 00:49:59.200
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:49:59.200 --> 00:50:00.240
<v SPEAKER_4>You're right.

00:50:00.240 --> 00:50:02.000
<v SPEAKER_3>And then it's very effective.

00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:02.400
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:03.040
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:50:03.040 --> 00:50:26.800
<v SPEAKER_3>No, because, yeah, the first time, when I was watching it, not for the first time, the use of the guy witnessing the crime from the wheelchair, just, it, you know, I was like, wow, that was great that he did that, because it totally opens up the whole thing, makes it seem more real, you know, adds context, and then I realized, oh, he's, it's really coming from Hitchcock, but so much stuff comes from Hitchcock.

00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:28.020
<v SPEAKER_3>But there's another kind of thing.

00:50:28.020 --> 00:50:29.700
<v SPEAKER_4>But wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:50:29.700 --> 00:50:36.800
<v SPEAKER_4>The important thing there is the point of view, that we're seeing it sort of, we're seeing him seeing it.

00:50:37.180 --> 00:50:42.840
<v SPEAKER_4>We're not at Scotty or whatever the name of the character was in Hitchcock, the James Stewart, in the Jimmy Stewart character.

00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:47.060
<v SPEAKER_4>We're not from his window, it's from Roy Scheider's window.

00:50:47.460 --> 00:50:54.300
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's both, when it goes to the guy in the wheelchair, we cut from across the street.

00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:56.800
<v SPEAKER_4>We cut to see the blood on the window, the blood on the curtains.

00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:59.280
<v SPEAKER_3>No, you cut from his point of view.

00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:01.980
<v SPEAKER_4>True, but it's not the same for me.

00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:05.180
<v SPEAKER_4>I hear what you're saying, but it's not the same.

00:51:05.180 --> 00:51:11.640
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, so I just want to, okay, once again, I want you to put it on the record, Frank, officially.

00:51:11.720 --> 00:51:13.900
<v SPEAKER_3>Is it exactly the same as Rear Window?

00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:15.860
<v SPEAKER_3>Or is it not exactly the same as Rear Window?

00:51:16.020 --> 00:51:16.840
<v SPEAKER_4>What do you want?

00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:17.700
<v SPEAKER_4>It's an illusion.

00:51:17.700 --> 00:51:21.640
<v SPEAKER_3>All right, there's another kind of quote homage to another film.

00:51:21.640 --> 00:51:24.400
<v SPEAKER_4>Don't say the baby carriage, please don't.

00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:27.120
<v SPEAKER_4>Say it, the baby carriage, what is it?

00:51:28.040 --> 00:51:33.500
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the killing of Johnny Ola in Godfather II, if you watch that.

00:51:33.500 --> 00:51:38.100
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the garrotting out on a balcony with the curtains.

00:51:38.420 --> 00:51:52.140
<v SPEAKER_3>Johnny Ola is the guy who, Michael Corleone finds out that his, Fredo betrayed him, worked with this guy, Johnny Ola, and kills him, and has one of his guys kill him in the hotel room with a garrot.

00:51:52.140 --> 00:51:53.800
<v SPEAKER_3>How do you say garrot, Garrett?

00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:55.480
<v SPEAKER_4>I have no idea what you're talking about.

00:51:55.480 --> 00:51:57.420
<v SPEAKER_4>You mean a wire?

00:51:57.420 --> 00:52:00.060
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, it's a wire with two handles, and you twist around somebody's neck.

00:52:01.040 --> 00:52:02.620
<v SPEAKER_4>What else is it for?

00:52:02.620 --> 00:52:04.140
<v SPEAKER_5>Meat?

00:52:04.140 --> 00:52:05.720
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I think it's for murder.

00:52:05.720 --> 00:52:06.680
<v SPEAKER_4>That's the purpose?

00:52:06.680 --> 00:52:08.840
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:11.620
<v SPEAKER_3>How would you feel about being garrotted?

00:52:14.260 --> 00:52:15.020
<v SPEAKER_3>Let me get the quiz.

00:52:15.020 --> 00:52:15.800
<v SPEAKER_4>Great.

00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:16.880
<v SPEAKER_3>Hold on.

00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:19.400
<v SPEAKER_4>Of all the ways to go.

00:52:19.700 --> 00:52:20.360
<v SPEAKER_3>Let me ask you.

00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:20.860
<v SPEAKER_3>How would you-

00:52:20.860 --> 00:52:23.540
<v SPEAKER_3>Dentistry or the garrot?

00:52:23.780 --> 00:52:25.180
<v SPEAKER_3>How would you feel about being garrotted?

00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:26.560
<v SPEAKER_3>A relaxed, B a little.

00:52:26.740 --> 00:52:28.940
<v SPEAKER_4>Slightly anxious.

00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:30.380
<v SPEAKER_3>No, seriously.

00:52:30.380 --> 00:52:34.440
<v SPEAKER_3>No, if you had to be murdered, how would you feel about that?

00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:36.900
<v SPEAKER_3>How do you feel about being garrotted?

00:52:36.900 --> 00:52:39.540
<v SPEAKER_4>I feel like-

00:52:39.580 --> 00:52:40.600
<v SPEAKER_3>Would you rather be shot?

00:52:40.600 --> 00:52:41.640
<v SPEAKER_3>Would you rather be shot?

00:52:41.900 --> 00:52:42.720
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:52:42.720 --> 00:52:45.300
<v SPEAKER_4>I would rather be murdered, be instant.

00:52:45.300 --> 00:52:47.180
<v SPEAKER_4>This seems to be pretty instant.

00:52:47.180 --> 00:52:48.940
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's not instant.

00:52:48.940 --> 00:52:49.300
<v SPEAKER_4>Isn't it?

00:52:49.300 --> 00:52:50.140
<v SPEAKER_4>When you did it right?

00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:50.580
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, no.

00:52:50.580 --> 00:52:51.560
<v SPEAKER_4>They fought like crazy.

00:52:51.560 --> 00:52:52.820
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, but even if-

00:52:52.820 --> 00:52:54.280
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, but he finally breaks his-

00:52:54.280 --> 00:52:54.800
<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, no, right.

00:52:56.160 --> 00:52:57.140
<v SPEAKER_3>Even if you're not-

00:52:57.320 --> 00:53:00.240
<v SPEAKER_3>It's obviously, it takes some time to choke you out.

00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:00.860
<v SPEAKER_3>So it's not-

00:53:00.860 --> 00:53:02.260
<v SPEAKER_3>So you'd rather be shot.

00:53:02.260 --> 00:53:03.980
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm just taking notes on what to arrange later.

00:53:03.980 --> 00:53:07.860
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm just taking notes on what to arrange later.

00:53:07.860 --> 00:53:10.240
<v SPEAKER_3>Nobody can get rid of you.

00:53:12.080 --> 00:53:12.620
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't want to.

00:53:13.020 --> 00:53:13.660
<v SPEAKER_4>I refuse to answer.

00:53:13.660 --> 00:53:14.520
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm going to talk to-

00:53:14.520 --> 00:53:17.300
<v SPEAKER_3>I got to go to a meeting with our producer, Anne-Marie De Palma.

00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:21.260
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, I tried to get Frank to leave to write books on Nazi sleuths.

00:53:21.260 --> 00:53:22.480
<v SPEAKER_2>He wouldn't do it.

00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:26.000
<v SPEAKER_3>But he doesn't want to be garroted, so you got to shoot him.

00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:27.120
<v SPEAKER_4>She's like, that's all right.

00:53:27.120 --> 00:53:28.400
<v SPEAKER_4>We're just building a case.

00:53:29.300 --> 00:53:29.600
<v SPEAKER_3>All right.

00:53:29.600 --> 00:53:30.800
<v SPEAKER_3>So, yeah, HR.

00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:31.780
<v SPEAKER_3>HR.

00:53:32.020 --> 00:53:36.720
<v SPEAKER_3>So FT, how about if you had to murder somebody, would you like to use a garrote?

00:53:36.720 --> 00:53:38.060
<v SPEAKER_4>I would not.

00:53:38.060 --> 00:53:40.080
<v SPEAKER_3>Why?

00:53:40.200 --> 00:53:42.420
<v SPEAKER_3>Does it make you uneasy?

00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:44.360
<v SPEAKER_4>Makes me slightly anxious.

00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:47.840
<v SPEAKER_4>I hate this.

00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:48.720
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh my God.

00:53:48.720 --> 00:53:50.460
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, how about you, Ken?

00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:51.060
<v SPEAKER_4>What?

00:53:51.100 --> 00:53:52.340
<v SPEAKER_4>Would you like to use one?

00:53:52.340 --> 00:53:55.180
<v SPEAKER_4>Would you prefer to use one if you were going to murder someone?

00:53:56.680 --> 00:53:57.200
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't think so, no.

00:53:57.200 --> 00:54:00.240
<v SPEAKER_4>I would never murder anybody, you know?

00:54:00.240 --> 00:54:02.260
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I wouldn't want to use a garrote on people.

00:54:02.260 --> 00:54:03.580
<v SPEAKER_4>No, yeah, no, it's terrible.

00:54:03.580 --> 00:54:04.160
<v SPEAKER_3>All right, cool.

00:54:05.580 --> 00:54:07.200
<v SPEAKER_3>That's why we're such good partners.

00:54:07.200 --> 00:54:08.520
<v SPEAKER_3>We both agree that-

00:54:08.580 --> 00:54:10.580
<v SPEAKER_4>Anti-Garrotted.

00:54:10.580 --> 00:54:12.740
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, we're firmly anti-Garrote.

00:54:12.740 --> 00:54:14.140
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, all right.

00:54:14.140 --> 00:54:17.660
<v SPEAKER_4>They Shoot Films, firmly anti-Garrote.

00:54:17.860 --> 00:54:34.300
<v SPEAKER_3>If I could say something before you interrupt me, can we move on to Doc being stabbed by Christian Zell and then staggering to, actually, this is gonna tie, no, it's not, and then he staggers to Babe's apartment.

00:54:34.300 --> 00:54:35.440
<v SPEAKER_4>It's ridiculous.

00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:36.060
<v SPEAKER_3>What's ridiculous?

00:54:37.520 --> 00:54:38.420
<v SPEAKER_4>Him making it there.

00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:40.460
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, let's talk about it.

00:54:40.680 --> 00:54:41.720
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's talk about it.

00:54:41.720 --> 00:54:47.980
<v SPEAKER_3>So you found it weird that he gets stabbed and that he goes to Babe's apartment.

00:54:49.040 --> 00:54:50.620
<v SPEAKER_4>I find it weird?

00:54:50.620 --> 00:54:52.400
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I find it impossible.

00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:57.740
<v SPEAKER_4>But, I mean, you see the size of that knife, that Robert De Niro, the taxi driver.

00:54:57.740 --> 00:55:00.560
<v SPEAKER_4>Was the taxi driver before this or after this?

00:55:00.580 --> 00:55:01.380
<v SPEAKER_4>Before, right?

00:55:01.380 --> 00:55:05.380
<v SPEAKER_3>I think strangely before, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

00:55:05.680 --> 00:55:08.980
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, with the gun coming down the device.

00:55:08.980 --> 00:55:09.740
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:55:09.740 --> 00:55:16.400
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, the Zell thing is weird because I can't figure out where that blade actually comes from.

00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:17.900
<v SPEAKER_3>I guess it is up his sleeve.

00:55:17.900 --> 00:55:22.000
<v SPEAKER_4>It's up his sleeve and it slides down like the right, like the pistol does in De Niro.

00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:25.560
<v SPEAKER_4>It's the same device, so it must have been around.

00:55:25.560 --> 00:55:33.980
<v SPEAKER_3>So, I think the problem here, again, just like my problem with the opening sequence, is in the novel, it's totally set up.

00:55:34.180 --> 00:55:41.820
<v SPEAKER_3>And basically, the set up is there's like a, Doc is much more developed in the novel until the point he dies.

00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:47.520
<v SPEAKER_3>And there's a scene where another, he witnesses the death of a fellow assassin in an airport.

00:55:47.520 --> 00:55:48.540
<v SPEAKER_2>Right.

00:55:48.540 --> 00:56:00.560
<v SPEAKER_3>And he vows, again, in his mind through, you know, interior monologue, which we can't have in a film, he vows that if he's going to die, he wants to die with someone he loves.

00:56:00.560 --> 00:56:16.400
<v SPEAKER_3>He doesn't want to die alone, which sets up the motivation for this impossible, you know, as you know, people who, people who suffer horrible accidents get, they can have a superhuman motivation to do something before they die.

00:56:16.400 --> 00:56:16.780
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:56:17.260 --> 00:56:26.180
<v SPEAKER_3>And so this was his, first of all, what we knew in the novel and even in the movie, we get to take, Doc is no, you know, he's a strong motherfucker.

00:56:26.180 --> 00:56:28.480
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, he's, he's, he's incredibly trained.

00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:30.300
<v SPEAKER_3>He's incredibly fit.

00:56:30.300 --> 00:56:30.540
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:56:30.540 --> 00:56:31.820
<v SPEAKER_4>His pushups on that bed.

00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:32.080
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:56:32.080 --> 00:56:32.360
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:33.040
<v SPEAKER_3>No.

00:56:33.040 --> 00:56:33.780
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh my God.

00:56:33.780 --> 00:56:34.160
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:51.980
<v SPEAKER_3>And the way, the way he takes on that, the asset, you know, again, even though you don't want to be garroted around the neck, I think if you were garroted around the neck, you would not be able to fight off someone the way he, you know, he sacrificed his hand and with, with the hand that's had a wire slice, he's fighting the guy off.

00:56:52.040 --> 00:56:54.760
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, garroted by the carotid.

00:56:55.860 --> 00:57:05.820
<v SPEAKER_3>But so, so I think it, with that motivation in the novel, if that's just the one thing he wants in life is not to die alone, but to die with a loved one, he could drag him.

00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:11.880
<v SPEAKER_3>So, you know, again, if he's stabbed in the gut, you know, a gut wound does take a long time, you bleed out.

00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:13.320
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not instantaneous.

00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:16.080
<v SPEAKER_3>I could see him getting to Babe's apartment.

00:57:16.080 --> 00:57:18.320
<v SPEAKER_3>But the question, let me finish here.

00:57:18.380 --> 00:57:23.660
<v SPEAKER_3>The question in the movie is we don't know why the fuck, why doesn't he go to a hospital?

00:57:23.660 --> 00:57:29.580
<v SPEAKER_3>Why does he drag himself to Babe's apartment, which doesn't make sense without the motivation.

00:57:29.580 --> 00:57:41.440
<v SPEAKER_3>Yet it's so important to the screenplay because when Babe goes to, sorry, when Doc goes to Babe's apartment, then Zell's got to think, oh fuck, the guy went and told his brother.

00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:44.340
<v SPEAKER_3>Now we got to find out if the brother's in on this whole thing.

00:57:44.340 --> 00:57:52.420
<v SPEAKER_3>So it's so crucial to the whole plot, but unmotivated the way it's handled in the movie from the late book.

00:57:52.420 --> 00:57:54.060
<v SPEAKER_4>But you don't care.

00:57:54.060 --> 00:57:56.360
<v SPEAKER_4>You don't care because it moves right along.

00:57:56.360 --> 00:58:01.980
<v SPEAKER_4>There is one possible, I thought about this, and I was, I didn't torture over it, as you would say, nor did I have a sleepless night.

00:58:01.980 --> 00:58:04.060
<v SPEAKER_4>Maybe I had a sleepless minute.

00:58:04.060 --> 00:58:16.620
<v SPEAKER_4>But part of me wanted to, part of me believes Doc wanted to tell Babe something about Elsa, because it's not until the end of the whole film we find out when she admits that she's a courier as well.

00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:21.860
<v SPEAKER_4>Remember, that whole lunch scene is really weird.

00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:22.240
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:23.500
<v SPEAKER_4>And that was before this.

00:58:23.500 --> 00:58:24.840
<v SPEAKER_4>That was right before this.

00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:29.160
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't think that, and again, that's the problem here.

00:58:29.160 --> 00:58:30.480
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm saying it's a possibility.

00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:33.080
<v SPEAKER_3>No, there's a world of possibilities.

00:58:33.080 --> 00:58:37.620
<v SPEAKER_3>But again, this is the difficulty for Goldman adapting his own work.

00:58:37.880 --> 00:58:43.560
<v SPEAKER_3>In the book where he's free to have go inside characters' heads, we know exactly what they're doing.

00:58:43.560 --> 00:58:45.580
<v SPEAKER_3>And he was not going there to talk about Elsa.

00:58:45.700 --> 00:58:47.780
<v SPEAKER_3>He was going there to die with his brother.

00:58:47.780 --> 00:58:54.640
<v SPEAKER_3>And all he does when he gets there, when he's dying, he doesn't tell, he has last words to Babe.

00:58:54.640 --> 00:58:58.460
<v SPEAKER_3>He doesn't say, Elsa, what does he say?

00:58:58.460 --> 00:58:59.480
<v SPEAKER_4>Babe.

00:58:59.740 --> 00:59:00.940
<v SPEAKER_3>He says his brother's name.

00:59:01.300 --> 00:59:09.300
<v SPEAKER_4>I know, I know, I know, but since they chose not to do voiceover, and so, thank God.

00:59:09.300 --> 00:59:12.060
<v SPEAKER_4>But the only motivation I could come up with is what I said.

00:59:12.120 --> 00:59:19.340
<v SPEAKER_4>And of course, because that scene, and we didn't talk about that, that's a troublesome scene.

00:59:19.520 --> 00:59:21.320
<v SPEAKER_4>That's the first troublesome scene.

00:59:21.500 --> 00:59:22.480
<v SPEAKER_3>What's the troublesome scene?

00:59:22.940 --> 00:59:26.340
<v SPEAKER_4>The lunch, the lunch, where he exposes who Elsa is, that she's a liar.

00:59:26.340 --> 00:59:28.760
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, why is it troublesome?

00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:33.000
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, because Babe goes, well, you know, stick your nose out of it, keep your nose out of it.

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:37.000
<v SPEAKER_1>That's right at the foot of Mount Rosa, isn't it?

00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:38.920
<v SPEAKER_1>He says it's some of the best skiing in the world.

00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:39.780
<v SPEAKER_1>Is that true?

00:59:39.780 --> 00:59:40.400
<v SPEAKER_1>Of course.

00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:41.280
<v SPEAKER_1>Is he 100% right?

00:59:43.380 --> 00:59:45.620
<v SPEAKER_1>You must know Claude Lasseur, the instructor there.

00:59:45.620 --> 00:59:46.800
<v SPEAKER_1>Have you skied with him?

00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:47.700
<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah.

00:59:47.700 --> 00:59:48.640
<v SPEAKER_1>Where is it?

00:59:48.640 --> 00:59:49.460
<v SPEAKER_1>Verbier.

00:59:49.460 --> 00:59:52.520
<v SPEAKER_6>Verbier.

00:59:52.520 --> 00:59:54.860
<v SPEAKER_1>I've made all this up.

00:59:54.860 --> 00:59:58.880
<v SPEAKER_1>There is no Mount Rosa in Verbier, and there is no Claude Lasseur.

00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:00.920
<v SPEAKER_1>You're not Swiss, what are you?

01:00:02.160 --> 01:00:03.560
<v SPEAKER_1>What are you?

01:00:04.600 --> 01:00:05.620
<v SPEAKER_3>Can't you guess?

01:00:05.620 --> 01:00:07.680
<v SPEAKER_1>Sure, German.

01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:08.660
<v SPEAKER_6>Anything else?

01:00:08.660 --> 01:00:10.020
<v SPEAKER_1>How long are your working papers good for?

01:00:10.020 --> 01:00:11.960
<v SPEAKER_2>Hey, wait a minute.

01:00:11.960 --> 01:00:13.160
<v SPEAKER_6>Wait a minute.

01:00:13.160 --> 01:00:13.780
<v SPEAKER_6>It's a joke.

01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:14.960
<v SPEAKER_6>It's just not funny.

01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:16.240
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't need work papers.

01:00:16.240 --> 01:00:17.920
<v SPEAKER_2>I'm a student here.

01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:18.880
<v SPEAKER_1>I don't know.

01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:19.500
<v SPEAKER_6>Whatever you're doing...

01:00:19.500 --> 01:00:24.280
<v SPEAKER_1>Many foreigners marry Americans to make things nice and legal, and all of a sudden the marriages don't work out.

01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:25.560
<v SPEAKER_3>Is that what you think of me?

01:00:25.560 --> 01:00:26.360
<v SPEAKER_6>Look, stop it.

01:00:26.360 --> 01:00:26.840
<v SPEAKER_1>Just stop it, man.

01:00:26.840 --> 01:00:28.280
<v SPEAKER_2>Why don't you ask me if I care for him?

01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:28.740
<v SPEAKER_1>Why bother?

01:00:28.740 --> 01:00:30.060
<v SPEAKER_1>You haven't told the truth so far.

01:00:30.060 --> 01:00:32.040
<v SPEAKER_6>But why don't you ask me if I love him?

01:00:32.040 --> 01:00:34.060
<v SPEAKER_7>Why don't you...

01:00:34.060 --> 01:00:34.760
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, wait a minute.

01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:35.180
<v SPEAKER_6>It's all right.

01:00:43.240 --> 01:00:44.500
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, which is ridiculous.

01:00:44.500 --> 01:00:47.120
<v SPEAKER_4>They wouldn't stop and go like, what the hell is going on?

01:00:47.120 --> 01:00:58.120
<v SPEAKER_4>And by the way, back at the apartment, how that whole business begins is, he's on the phone with Elsa, and she's giving him some bullshit lying about she was afraid to say she was German, blah, blah, blah.

01:00:58.120 --> 01:00:59.880
<v SPEAKER_4>And that's when Doc breaks down, the door and shows up bloody.

01:01:05.180 --> 01:01:12.080
<v SPEAKER_4>What the Ascension Sculpture is, that staircase, all the way to New York, with the stab wound, is fucking impossible, buddy.

01:01:12.080 --> 01:01:14.280
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, what FT is trying to say is the...

01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:15.200
<v SPEAKER_4>Trying to say?

01:01:15.200 --> 01:01:15.880
<v SPEAKER_4>I just said it.

01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:21.280
<v SPEAKER_3>They shot on location in LA and then Babe's apartment's in New York.

01:01:21.380 --> 01:01:22.520
<v SPEAKER_4>I wasn't trying to say it.

01:01:22.520 --> 01:01:23.120
<v SPEAKER_3>I said it.

01:01:23.260 --> 01:01:24.520
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm proud.

01:01:24.520 --> 01:01:26.040
<v SPEAKER_4>Successfully, I said it.

01:01:26.040 --> 01:01:27.180
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:01:27.180 --> 01:01:35.660
<v SPEAKER_3>But I am proud of you, FT, because usually you do nitpick, and this one you're like, you accepted it, you moved on, which again, I think, is what the filmmakers were counting on.

01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:44.220
<v SPEAKER_3>And what I've told you so many times before in thrillers, you know, they're held together with duct tape and a couple of staples.

01:01:44.220 --> 01:01:48.400
<v SPEAKER_3>And if you really start, no, and if you really start tolling them apart, they don't work.

01:01:48.400 --> 01:01:49.340
<v SPEAKER_3>So you need-

01:01:49.340 --> 01:01:52.360
<v SPEAKER_4>What did you use duct tape and staples on?

01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:54.120
<v SPEAKER_3>My novels.

01:01:54.120 --> 01:01:55.220
<v SPEAKER_3>My screen plays.

01:01:55.220 --> 01:01:57.020
<v SPEAKER_4>My neck, my neck wound.

01:01:57.080 --> 01:01:58.100
<v SPEAKER_4>My carotid.

01:01:58.100 --> 01:01:59.040
<v SPEAKER_4>My carotid.

01:02:00.100 --> 01:02:03.100
<v SPEAKER_3>We need to move on because tape is expensive.

01:02:05.120 --> 01:02:06.780
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, I'm not talking about scotch tape.

01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:08.240
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not saying-

01:02:08.240 --> 01:02:09.980
<v SPEAKER_4>You are talking about scotch tape.

01:02:09.980 --> 01:02:12.200
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I'm talking about recording tape.

01:02:12.200 --> 01:02:13.360
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, quarter inch.

01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:16.100
<v SPEAKER_3>We're going to move on to the bathroom scene.

01:02:16.100 --> 01:02:17.360
<v SPEAKER_4>Which one?

01:02:18.820 --> 01:02:23.640
<v SPEAKER_4>The one where he smartly, after being told, I'm going to use you as bait, I'm going to take a bath.

01:02:24.060 --> 01:02:27.740
<v SPEAKER_3>No, the one where he eats the, where baby eats the bad tamales.

01:02:29.660 --> 01:02:35.480
<v SPEAKER_3>No, the bath scene where he takes a, yes, he takes a bath and the henchmen break into his apartment.

01:02:35.640 --> 01:02:37.820
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, which is again ridiculous.

01:02:37.820 --> 01:02:39.680
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, why is that ridiculous?

01:02:39.680 --> 01:02:41.700
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, let me just say one general point.

01:02:41.700 --> 01:02:44.700
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't nitpick because you just go like, quit nitpicking.

01:02:44.700 --> 01:02:46.620
<v SPEAKER_4>It's like poetic license and all that.

01:02:46.620 --> 01:02:54.740
<v SPEAKER_4>But the reason why this bothers me is that when people allow this flow to go by, when things aren't making sense.

01:02:54.740 --> 01:02:55.940
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, why doesn't it make sense?

01:02:55.940 --> 01:02:58.900
<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:02:58.900 --> 01:03:01.400
<v SPEAKER_4>It affects our perception of reality.

01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:02.700
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, but why doesn't it make sense?

01:03:02.700 --> 01:03:03.740
<v SPEAKER_3>It made sense to me.

01:03:03.760 --> 01:03:14.420
<v SPEAKER_4>That he would take a bath after his brother's dead and after he's being told that some bad people are after you.

01:03:14.500 --> 01:03:18.120
<v SPEAKER_4>It put him and himself in this defenseless position.

01:03:18.120 --> 01:03:22.240
<v SPEAKER_4>I sat there and went, get the fuck out of here, man.

01:03:22.240 --> 01:03:25.540
<v SPEAKER_3>So how do you feel about The Big Lebowski, then?

01:03:25.540 --> 01:03:28.300
<v SPEAKER_3>You dismiss that as well?

01:03:28.300 --> 01:03:29.280
<v SPEAKER_4>What?

01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:29.960
<v SPEAKER_2>I forget.

01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:30.400
<v SPEAKER_2>I forget.

01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:32.040
<v SPEAKER_4>There's a bathroom scene there?

01:03:32.040 --> 01:03:32.720
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, there is.

01:03:32.720 --> 01:03:38.120
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, after Jeff Bridges' car gets stolen with his Credence tape, what does he do?

01:03:38.260 --> 01:03:42.620
<v SPEAKER_3>And believe me, I think the Coen brothers were doing a homage to this film.

01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:47.280
<v SPEAKER_3>So remember Jeff Bridges' car gets stolen with the Credence tape.

01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:53.420
<v SPEAKER_3>He gives the police report and then he goes home and we see him in the bathtub smoking a joint.

01:03:53.420 --> 01:03:54.660
<v SPEAKER_3>And these guys break in.

01:03:54.660 --> 01:03:55.660
<v SPEAKER_4>That's when he's attacked.

01:03:55.660 --> 01:03:57.000
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:02.740
<v SPEAKER_3>The nihilists break into his apartment and he delivers the line.

01:04:02.740 --> 01:04:04.000
<v SPEAKER_3>Remember what he says to them?

01:04:04.740 --> 01:04:05.480
<v SPEAKER_3>He's in the bathtub.

01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:12.440
<v SPEAKER_3>He hears the door being broken down and he says, Hey, this is a private resonance man.

01:04:15.040 --> 01:04:17.100
<v SPEAKER_3>And then they come in and he says, nice marmot.

01:04:17.100 --> 01:04:19.800
<v SPEAKER_3>And then they throw the marmot in the tub.

01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:26.960
<v SPEAKER_3>And so FT, I find it less plausible about marmots being thrown in the bathtub than the fact that Babe would take a bath in this movie.

01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:28.000
<v SPEAKER_4>Good for you.

01:04:28.060 --> 01:04:36.480
<v SPEAKER_3>No, his brother, his brother's, you know, he thinks, you know, he's been through a lot, so he takes a bath to relax.

01:04:38.060 --> 01:04:40.600
<v SPEAKER_4>So do you take a bath after each podcast?

01:04:40.600 --> 01:04:42.680
<v SPEAKER_2>Since you've been through a lot.

01:04:42.680 --> 01:04:43.380
<v SPEAKER_3>No, but-

01:04:43.380 --> 01:04:44.400
<v SPEAKER_4>See, that's my argument.

01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:45.520
<v SPEAKER_4>That's why it's ridiculous.

01:04:45.520 --> 01:04:47.320
<v SPEAKER_4>Next, move on.

01:04:48.340 --> 01:04:52.380
<v SPEAKER_3>But I think, well, do you think-

01:04:52.380 --> 01:04:53.220
<v SPEAKER_4>See, you're speechless.

01:04:53.220 --> 01:04:55.720
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you think the bathroom should win an award?

01:04:55.720 --> 01:04:56.480
<v SPEAKER_3>Babe's bathroom.

01:04:56.900 --> 01:04:58.540
<v SPEAKER_4>For design, decoration?

01:04:58.540 --> 01:05:00.680
<v SPEAKER_3>For the grossest bathroom.

01:05:00.680 --> 01:05:02.300
<v SPEAKER_4>I've seen those in New York, haven't you?

01:05:02.300 --> 01:05:02.760
<v SPEAKER_4>You ever seen them?

01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:06.400
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, I was wondering, when was the last time you saw Midnight Cowboy?

01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:07.340
<v SPEAKER_4>Yesterday.

01:05:07.340 --> 01:05:07.900
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

01:05:08.860 --> 01:05:10.280
<v SPEAKER_3>Are there gross bathrooms in that?

01:05:10.540 --> 01:05:12.420
<v SPEAKER_3>Is that, I guess, Schlesinger Hallmark?

01:05:12.680 --> 01:05:14.500
<v SPEAKER_4>It's the whole place where they live.

01:05:14.500 --> 01:05:15.140
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

01:05:15.140 --> 01:05:16.400
<v SPEAKER_4>That's what I watched last night.

01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:21.560
<v SPEAKER_4>I said, I'm going to watch this one because it was a similar experience I haven't seen in 25 years.

01:05:21.580 --> 01:05:21.880
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

01:05:22.180 --> 01:05:23.100
<v SPEAKER_3>How did it work for you?

01:05:23.100 --> 01:05:23.680
<v SPEAKER_3>How did you like it?

01:05:23.940 --> 01:05:25.640
<v SPEAKER_4>Really, it held up.

01:05:25.640 --> 01:05:28.500
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought it held up quite a bit.

01:05:28.500 --> 01:05:31.360
<v SPEAKER_4>Again, the performances were excellent.

01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:32.280
<v SPEAKER_4>It's a weirder film.

01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:34.060
<v SPEAKER_4>It's a much weirder film.

01:05:34.060 --> 01:05:38.720
<v SPEAKER_4>Psychedelic elements that we're missing in this one.

01:05:39.560 --> 01:05:40.380
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's move on.

01:05:40.820 --> 01:05:43.340
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's accept that he needs to relax.

01:05:43.340 --> 01:05:50.380
<v SPEAKER_3>He takes a bath and when he takes a bath, he wants to put a washcloth over his eyes so he can't see.

01:05:52.220 --> 01:05:57.260
<v SPEAKER_3>How do you feel about when the goons break into the apartment?

01:05:57.260 --> 01:05:58.220
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, it's great.

01:05:59.060 --> 01:06:01.760
<v SPEAKER_4>It's really well directed.

01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:03.720
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, you get the sense.

01:06:03.720 --> 01:06:05.660
<v SPEAKER_4>It's such a closed space.

01:06:05.680 --> 01:06:06.400
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:06.660
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:06:07.060 --> 01:06:10.340
<v SPEAKER_4>It's just a great, great disclosure of the whole thing.

01:06:10.340 --> 01:06:15.860
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, back and forth by him in the window, trying to smash those impossible little New York windows.

01:06:15.860 --> 01:06:16.200
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:06:16.680 --> 01:06:21.100
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, which don't open, 15 coats of paint, right?

01:06:21.100 --> 01:06:21.780
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:25.240
<v SPEAKER_4>And then the crowbar with the molding, which you know is going to happen.

01:06:25.240 --> 01:06:25.760
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:06:25.760 --> 01:06:27.560
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, oh God, it was great.

01:06:27.560 --> 01:06:32.380
<v SPEAKER_4>That was one of the best, I think, edited and shot scenes in the film for me.

01:06:32.380 --> 01:06:32.600
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:38.940
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, for Schlesinger, for a not, you know, again, a documentary director, never directed anything like this.

01:06:39.940 --> 01:06:44.520
<v SPEAKER_3>The way he shot and also, as you said, credit to the editor.

01:06:45.020 --> 01:06:53.360
<v SPEAKER_3>Really the design from Schlesinger's point, the brilliance is never leaving the bathroom.

01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:56.880
<v SPEAKER_3>As to the way the Coen brothers handle the Marmot Nihilus scene.

01:06:56.880 --> 01:07:03.860
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, in that you see outside the door, you see the Nihilus here, we just hear it and we just see the crowbar coming at the hinges.

01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:14.020
<v SPEAKER_3>And again, it's what you don't see where your mind, so that fear, and also by not leaving the bathroom, as you said, it's so claustrophobic in there.

01:07:14.020 --> 01:07:22.060
<v SPEAKER_3>And then the way the scene plays out, and credit to Hoffman in this scene, the dilemma he faces, what do you do?

01:07:22.060 --> 01:07:23.360
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, the window, I'll try the window.

01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:24.760
<v SPEAKER_3>No, that doesn't work.

01:07:24.760 --> 01:07:25.600
<v SPEAKER_3>What do I do next?

01:07:26.100 --> 01:07:31.480
<v SPEAKER_3>And then the final choice left is to just run at him head on.

01:07:31.480 --> 01:07:33.260
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, open the door, yeah, yeah.

01:07:33.740 --> 01:07:35.440
<v SPEAKER_4>Hey, look at, by the way, I disagree with you.

01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:49.560
<v SPEAKER_4>I think it's because of his documentary filmmaking that he was able to think about what the details were to shoot, you know, the, you know, so we shot, he had one set up where Hoffman's trying to get out of the window, then he exits the frame, you know, then the other shot of the window.

01:07:49.560 --> 01:07:53.680
<v SPEAKER_4>It's kind of simple, but it's, you know, that's, I think, in editing.

01:07:53.680 --> 01:07:57.720
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't think it's a major, you know, design in the shooting standpoint.

01:07:57.720 --> 01:08:03.060
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it's like, let's shoot this and we're going to cut it right, you know, but that's just my opinion.

01:08:03.060 --> 01:08:05.220
<v SPEAKER_4>And I only looked at it 14 times, so.

01:08:05.220 --> 01:08:11.700
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, but again, the main decision, and maybe he shot coverage of the goons outside the bathroom.

01:08:11.700 --> 01:08:15.660
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, well then, again, hats off to Schlesinger for saying no.

01:08:15.660 --> 01:08:16.980
<v SPEAKER_3>We're just going to be inside the bathroom.

01:08:16.980 --> 01:08:19.220
<v SPEAKER_3>It's all going to be from Dustin's POV.

01:08:20.400 --> 01:08:22.260
<v SPEAKER_4>In his situation, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:22.260 --> 01:08:22.860
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's cut to the torture.

01:08:22.860 --> 01:08:23.480
<v SPEAKER_4>How does that end?

01:08:23.480 --> 01:08:27.500
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, right, so he runs out the door, then they, right, then they drown him.

01:08:27.500 --> 01:08:28.600
<v SPEAKER_4>They try to drown him.

01:08:28.600 --> 01:08:29.560
<v SPEAKER_4>They waterboard him, right?

01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:31.860
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, yes, that's right.

01:08:31.860 --> 01:08:32.700
<v SPEAKER_4>Well done.

01:08:32.700 --> 01:08:36.640
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's cut to the torture scene with Lawrence Olivier.

01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:38.560
<v SPEAKER_3>Your thoughts on that, FT.?

01:08:39.520 --> 01:08:41.780
<v SPEAKER_3>The first one, let's deal with them separately.

01:08:41.780 --> 01:08:42.720
<v SPEAKER_3>The first one.

01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:44.420
<v SPEAKER_4>It's torturous.

01:08:44.420 --> 01:08:45.700
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:08:45.700 --> 01:08:47.600
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I don't want you to say.

01:08:47.820 --> 01:08:50.860
<v SPEAKER_4>I think you hinted at that.

01:08:51.020 --> 01:08:55.880
<v SPEAKER_4>I think Hoffman's great in that, by the way, where it's just like, what the hell's going on here?

01:08:55.880 --> 01:08:57.480
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, it's safe.

01:08:57.480 --> 01:08:58.320
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, it's safe.

01:08:58.320 --> 01:08:59.040
<v SPEAKER_4>It's definitely safe.

01:08:59.180 --> 01:08:59.620
<v SPEAKER_3>It's very safe.

01:08:59.940 --> 01:09:00.840
<v SPEAKER_4>Then he goes, it's not safe.

01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:02.280
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, it's extremely safe.

01:09:02.280 --> 01:09:04.900
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, you won't believe how safe it is, you know.

01:09:07.380 --> 01:09:08.740
<v SPEAKER_5>Is it safe?

01:09:10.380 --> 01:09:12.100
<v SPEAKER_6>They're talking to me.

01:09:12.100 --> 01:09:13.800
<v SPEAKER_5>Is it safe?

01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:14.980
<v SPEAKER_3>What's safe?

01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:18.340
<v SPEAKER_5>Is it safe?

01:09:18.340 --> 01:09:20.520
<v SPEAKER_6>I don't know what you mean.

01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:26.940
<v SPEAKER_6>I can't tell you if something is safe or not, unless I know specifically what you're talking about.

01:09:28.820 --> 01:09:30.320
<v SPEAKER_5>Is it safe?

01:09:30.320 --> 01:09:32.000
<v SPEAKER_6>Tell me what it refers to.

01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:33.520
<v SPEAKER_1>Is it safe?

01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:34.160
<v SPEAKER_6>Yes, it's safe.

01:09:34.160 --> 01:09:34.900
<v SPEAKER_6>It's very safe.

01:09:34.900 --> 01:09:36.880
<v SPEAKER_6>So safe you wouldn't believe it.

01:09:39.320 --> 01:09:40.940
<v SPEAKER_1>Is it safe?

01:09:40.940 --> 01:09:42.260
<v SPEAKER_2>No, it's not safe.

01:09:42.260 --> 01:09:44.260
<v SPEAKER_6>It's very dangerous.

01:09:44.260 --> 01:09:44.740
<v SPEAKER_2>Be careful.

01:09:51.452 --> 01:09:51.792
<v SPEAKER_6>That hurt?

01:09:51.792 --> 01:09:54.152
<v SPEAKER_5>No, I should think it would.

01:09:54.152 --> 01:09:55.972
<v SPEAKER_5>Should take better care of your teeth.

01:09:55.972 --> 01:09:59.412
<v SPEAKER_5>You have quite a cavity here.

01:10:00.632 --> 01:10:01.832
<v SPEAKER_2>Is it safe?

01:10:01.912 --> 01:10:02.872
<v SPEAKER_6>Look, I tell you, I can't do it.

01:10:09.967 --> 01:10:10.747
<v SPEAKER_5>I don't think he knows.

01:10:10.747 --> 01:10:14.327
<v SPEAKER_5>Of course he knows he's being very stubborn.

01:10:14.327 --> 01:10:17.107
<v SPEAKER_6>Oh, oh.

01:10:20.327 --> 01:10:22.667
<v SPEAKER_5>Is it not remarkable?

01:10:22.667 --> 01:10:27.307
<v SPEAKER_5>Simple oil of cloves, and how amazing the results.

01:10:27.307 --> 01:10:29.447
<v SPEAKER_5>Life can be that simple.

01:10:29.447 --> 01:10:32.727
<v SPEAKER_5>Relief, discomfort.

01:10:32.727 --> 01:10:37.247
<v SPEAKER_5>Now which of these I next apply, that decision is in your hands.

01:10:37.247 --> 01:10:37.387
<v SPEAKER_5>So...

01:10:44.212 --> 01:10:45.552
<v SPEAKER_2>Is it safe?

01:10:45.552 --> 01:10:49.472
<v SPEAKER_4>But the scene sort of struck me as artificial though.

01:10:49.472 --> 01:10:50.932
<v SPEAKER_4>Is it safe?

01:10:50.932 --> 01:11:00.932
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it bothered me this time, to be honest with you, because I didn't know what possible answer he could give.

01:11:01.572 --> 01:11:05.632
<v SPEAKER_4>It struck me as needless torture.

01:11:05.772 --> 01:11:07.152
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you mean?

01:11:07.152 --> 01:11:09.132
<v SPEAKER_4>What answer could he give?

01:11:09.132 --> 01:11:11.872
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, either yes, it's safe, or no, it's not safe.

01:11:11.912 --> 01:11:12.232
<v SPEAKER_4>He did.

01:11:12.232 --> 01:11:12.812
<v SPEAKER_3>It's binary.

01:11:14.272 --> 01:11:17.472
<v SPEAKER_3>But he did, but he had no way he did not have not.

01:11:17.472 --> 01:11:18.192
<v SPEAKER_3>It didn't.

01:11:18.192 --> 01:11:18.532
<v SPEAKER_3>It was not.

01:11:18.532 --> 01:11:19.232
<v SPEAKER_4>What did he lack?

01:11:19.232 --> 01:11:19.892
<v SPEAKER_4>What did he lack?

01:11:19.892 --> 01:11:20.592
<v SPEAKER_4>Conviction?

01:11:20.592 --> 01:11:20.812
<v SPEAKER_3>Can.

01:11:20.812 --> 01:11:22.792
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, well, you clearly didn't know.

01:11:22.792 --> 01:11:24.572
<v SPEAKER_3>It was not convincing.

01:11:24.572 --> 01:11:24.792
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:11:24.792 --> 01:11:27.532
<v SPEAKER_4>But what's how would you how would you convince him?

01:11:27.532 --> 01:11:30.512
<v SPEAKER_4>So in other words, they thought that Dustin Hoffman was holding back.

01:11:30.512 --> 01:11:35.032
<v SPEAKER_4>It's not safe because my brother told me such and such.

01:11:35.032 --> 01:11:35.632
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

01:11:35.812 --> 01:11:43.152
<v SPEAKER_4>I was trying to run this through, you know, I was running scenarios, as they say, you know, when I was after watching this, I was like, what could he have said?

01:11:43.152 --> 01:11:43.512
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

01:11:43.512 --> 01:11:52.552
<v SPEAKER_3>So again, Zell thinks because Doc went to Babes' apartment as he was dying, that Babe is in on the plan.

01:11:52.552 --> 01:12:05.112
<v SPEAKER_3>The plan being, Babes' member, the whole thing, which he said is shot in LA between Zell and Doc, when Zell kills him is, you know, I have to go to the bank.

01:12:05.112 --> 01:12:11.552
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, maybe I've been there already, you know, are you going to, you know, trying to find out if Doc's going to rip him off.

01:12:11.572 --> 01:12:16.992
<v SPEAKER_3>And, and Zell definitely thinks Doc's going to rip him off, which is why he kills him.

01:12:16.992 --> 01:12:23.912
<v SPEAKER_3>But now that Doc goes to Babe, he's got to find out, is Doc in on, is it safe for me to go to the bank?

01:12:23.912 --> 01:12:26.972
<v SPEAKER_3>Again, I'm a fucking Nazi in America.

01:12:26.972 --> 01:12:28.972
<v SPEAKER_3>I've got to get there.

01:12:28.972 --> 01:12:30.552
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't want to get ripped off.

01:12:30.552 --> 01:12:32.512
<v SPEAKER_3>And I know Doc was trying to make sense.

01:12:32.512 --> 01:12:34.032
<v SPEAKER_4>Forget it.

01:12:34.072 --> 01:12:36.652
<v SPEAKER_4>What kind of a, by the way, let's move on.

01:12:36.652 --> 01:12:37.332
<v SPEAKER_3>No, you're-

01:12:37.332 --> 01:12:39.692
<v SPEAKER_4>Frank doesn't often present no threat.

01:12:39.692 --> 01:12:45.452
<v SPEAKER_3>You're saying this from your hoity, you're saying this from your hoity-toity position as a non-Nazi.

01:12:45.452 --> 01:12:47.752
<v SPEAKER_4>That's right.

01:12:47.752 --> 01:12:48.272
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, Mr.

01:12:48.272 --> 01:12:50.912
<v SPEAKER_4>Hoity-Toyty as a non-paranoid Nazi.

01:12:50.912 --> 01:12:52.212
<v SPEAKER_4>That's correct.

01:12:52.212 --> 01:12:53.692
<v SPEAKER_4>Blue-eyed that I am.

01:12:53.692 --> 01:12:55.372
<v SPEAKER_4>Whoops-a-daisy.

01:12:55.372 --> 01:12:57.212
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I just didn't, I didn't buy it.

01:12:57.212 --> 01:13:02.112
<v SPEAKER_3>You cannot tell how a Nazi would act unless you've walked a mile in their shoes, FT.

01:13:02.112 --> 01:13:03.492
<v SPEAKER_4>Unless you goose-stepped a mile.

01:13:03.792 --> 01:13:07.192
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, so basically, here's where we're at now, FT.

01:13:07.192 --> 01:13:08.152
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:13:08.152 --> 01:13:11.972
<v SPEAKER_3>Earlier you said that this film wouldn't work without the dental scene.

01:13:11.972 --> 01:13:13.872
<v SPEAKER_3>Now you're saying you hate the dental scene.

01:13:13.872 --> 01:13:15.312
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I'm not, no, look at you.

01:13:15.312 --> 01:13:17.452
<v SPEAKER_4>Just reduce things down, you reductionist.

01:13:17.452 --> 01:13:18.592
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I'm saying it wouldn't work.

01:13:18.592 --> 01:13:20.752
<v SPEAKER_4>It's just a torture that makes it work.

01:13:20.752 --> 01:13:22.672
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, people just go, oh my God.

01:13:22.672 --> 01:13:25.552
<v SPEAKER_4>But when you really ask, what could Baybiff possibly said?

01:13:25.552 --> 01:13:26.252
<v SPEAKER_4>He's in on it.

01:13:26.252 --> 01:13:27.712
<v SPEAKER_3>He can say nothing because he doesn't know.

01:13:27.712 --> 01:13:28.872
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, he did say nothing.

01:13:28.872 --> 01:13:30.552
<v SPEAKER_4>There's nothing he could say to stop the torture.

01:13:31.992 --> 01:13:32.272
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

01:13:32.952 --> 01:13:35.652
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's not ridiculous.

01:13:35.652 --> 01:13:36.672
<v SPEAKER_3>That is the whole point.

01:13:36.672 --> 01:13:41.472
<v SPEAKER_3>That's why Zell eventually says, he doesn't know anything, just get rid of him.

01:13:41.472 --> 01:13:41.792
<v SPEAKER_3>Of course.

01:13:41.792 --> 01:13:42.912
<v SPEAKER_3>That's the whole point of this.

01:13:42.912 --> 01:13:46.272
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, but he could have concluded that from the first time.

01:13:46.272 --> 01:13:46.872
<v SPEAKER_4>Whatever.

01:13:48.812 --> 01:13:52.852
<v SPEAKER_4>Anyhow, continue with, where do you want to go with this?

01:13:52.852 --> 01:13:53.332
<v SPEAKER_4>Nowhere.

01:13:53.892 --> 01:13:54.512
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm tired.

01:13:54.512 --> 01:13:55.672
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't want to go anywhere.

01:13:55.672 --> 01:13:59.132
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I want to talk about that scene with Olivier.

01:14:00.032 --> 01:14:06.872
<v SPEAKER_3>The brilliance of that scene, which I could enjoy without going down these rabbit holes of nitpicking.

01:14:07.072 --> 01:14:09.552
<v SPEAKER_4>A rabbit hole of nitpicking.

01:14:10.972 --> 01:14:12.732
<v SPEAKER_4>A rabbit hole of mixed metaphors.

01:14:15.172 --> 01:14:21.092
<v SPEAKER_3>The brilliance, the lighting, everything in that scene with Hoffman, after being drowned, he's now in this chair.

01:14:21.092 --> 01:14:23.432
<v SPEAKER_3>What the hell is going on?

01:14:23.432 --> 01:14:30.092
<v SPEAKER_3>The way Olivier comes into that room with his briefcase, and I think a trench coat.

01:14:30.092 --> 01:14:39.472
<v SPEAKER_3>And takes off his trench coat, sets down his briefcase, goes over to the sink and thoroughly washes his hands.

01:14:39.472 --> 01:14:42.552
<v SPEAKER_3>Because of course he wouldn't want Bave to get any kind of infection.

01:14:42.552 --> 01:14:44.552
<v SPEAKER_4>Absolutely not.

01:14:44.552 --> 01:14:46.032
<v SPEAKER_4>He's a doctor.

01:14:46.032 --> 01:14:57.692
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, I mean, I think there's, again, you can argue about what he was interrogating, but I think the proof is in the pudding that, you know, that scene.

01:14:57.692 --> 01:14:59.832
<v SPEAKER_4>The proof is in the rabbit hole.

01:14:59.832 --> 01:15:02.912
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, the pudding's in the rabbit hole.

01:15:03.172 --> 01:15:05.072
<v SPEAKER_3>It's a legendary scene.

01:15:05.132 --> 01:15:07.252
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, it works so well.

01:15:07.252 --> 01:15:08.172
<v SPEAKER_4>That's torture.

01:15:08.172 --> 01:15:10.432
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, absolutely, yes.

01:15:10.432 --> 01:15:11.612
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

01:15:11.612 --> 01:15:16.832
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's get to the diamond district scene where Zell tries to find out what his diamonds are worth.

01:15:16.832 --> 01:15:18.432
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you think of that scene?

01:15:18.432 --> 01:15:21.672
<v SPEAKER_4>I remembered it completely differently.

01:15:21.672 --> 01:15:22.072
<v SPEAKER_4>I did.

01:15:22.932 --> 01:15:25.352
<v SPEAKER_4>When it happened, I said, all right.

01:15:25.352 --> 01:15:32.672
<v SPEAKER_4>I remembered, I thought that he gets, that a lot more people were survivors than the one woman.

01:15:32.672 --> 01:15:34.112
<v SPEAKER_4>You know what I mean?

01:15:34.112 --> 01:15:35.432
<v SPEAKER_4>And then the other fellow.

01:15:35.852 --> 01:15:38.332
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, the appraisers, you know.

01:15:38.332 --> 01:15:39.392
<v SPEAKER_3>Yep.

01:15:39.872 --> 01:15:46.492
<v SPEAKER_3>I think the sequence in the diamond district is really, is one of the best parts of the movie for me.

01:15:46.492 --> 01:15:47.952
<v SPEAKER_3>It sounds like for you too.

01:15:47.952 --> 01:15:48.572
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:15:48.612 --> 01:15:56.712
<v SPEAKER_4>Particularly how, you know, Olivier character handles the whole business of, you know, he sees the tattoo and he immediately has a backstory.

01:15:56.712 --> 01:15:59.892
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that he has a small shop in London and he pulls it off.

01:15:59.892 --> 01:16:01.132
<v SPEAKER_4>He's believable.

01:16:01.132 --> 01:16:03.432
<v SPEAKER_5>I know you.

01:16:03.432 --> 01:16:04.992
<v SPEAKER_7>Perhaps you do.

01:16:04.992 --> 01:16:07.072
<v SPEAKER_7>I'm pretty good at faces myself.

01:16:07.072 --> 01:16:07.932
<v SPEAKER_7>I know this.

01:16:07.932 --> 01:16:09.972
<v SPEAKER_7>Christopher Hess, how do you do?

01:16:09.972 --> 01:16:12.612
<v SPEAKER_7>Christopher Hess, how do you do?

01:16:12.612 --> 01:16:14.992
<v SPEAKER_7>Wait, wait, let me think.

01:16:16.052 --> 01:16:23.692
<v SPEAKER_7>I think surely you came to our antique shop in London.

01:16:23.692 --> 01:16:24.992
<v SPEAKER_5>No, that wasn't it.

01:16:24.992 --> 01:16:26.732
<v SPEAKER_7>No, but you've been to London.

01:16:26.732 --> 01:16:28.332
<v SPEAKER_2>Sure, but I don't think...

01:16:28.332 --> 01:16:29.872
<v SPEAKER_7>Hess of Golders Green.

01:16:29.872 --> 01:16:35.632
<v SPEAKER_7>We've been there since 33 when we got out of Germany, my wife and I.

01:16:35.632 --> 01:16:37.812
<v SPEAKER_7>Our little shop is quite fashionable now.

01:16:37.812 --> 01:16:39.772
<v SPEAKER_6>I always wanted to visit London.

01:16:39.772 --> 01:16:43.672
<v SPEAKER_7>Well, I suggest you hurry while it's still there.

01:16:44.512 --> 01:16:50.232
<v SPEAKER_7>Well, I thank you for your time, and I'm sorry 90,000 is far too high for me.

01:16:50.232 --> 01:16:52.412
<v SPEAKER_7>Our little shop isn't that fashionable.

01:16:52.412 --> 01:16:52.832
<v SPEAKER_1>Thank you.

01:17:11.860 --> 01:17:12.920
<v SPEAKER_7>Oh my God.

01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:14.180
<v SPEAKER_7>Stop him!

01:17:14.180 --> 01:17:15.560
<v SPEAKER_1>Stop him!

01:17:20.160 --> 01:17:23.300
<v SPEAKER_3>Here's a blasphemy from me.

01:17:23.560 --> 01:17:24.500
<v SPEAKER_4>Blasphemy.

01:17:24.500 --> 01:17:30.560
<v SPEAKER_3>And it doesn't work unless you'd have to figure out how to make it work.

01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:36.160
<v SPEAKER_3>But I kind of wish the Jews killed Zell in the Diamond District.

01:17:36.160 --> 01:17:39.000
<v SPEAKER_4>That's what I remember, I thought he was mugged.

01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:40.740
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought he was attacked there.

01:17:40.740 --> 01:17:42.460
<v SPEAKER_3>That's so funny, I thought the same thing.

01:17:42.460 --> 01:17:44.240
<v SPEAKER_3>I thought that's where it was going.

01:17:44.240 --> 01:17:44.960
<v SPEAKER_4>That's where it ends.

01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:46.340
<v SPEAKER_3>That's so weird.

01:17:46.500 --> 01:17:47.200
<v SPEAKER_3>And it would have been-

01:17:47.280 --> 01:17:48.460
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought it did.

01:17:48.680 --> 01:17:54.380
<v SPEAKER_3>Because I do not like the ending of this movie, and we're going to talk about that when we get there.

01:17:54.380 --> 01:17:58.980
<v SPEAKER_3>But I wish it could have ended with the Jews getting the revenge in the Diamond District.

01:17:58.980 --> 01:18:05.720
<v SPEAKER_3>Of course, it doesn't really work structurally because it leaves the protagonist out of the resolution.

01:18:06.940 --> 01:18:09.240
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you could have worked it out.

01:18:09.240 --> 01:18:16.160
<v SPEAKER_4>Somebody could have written a version where Dustin Hoffman shows up and he is not given the chance for revenge.

01:18:16.220 --> 01:18:16.960
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:17.980
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:18:18.040 --> 01:18:20.980
<v SPEAKER_4>Because there is a greater revenge that is taken.

01:18:20.980 --> 01:18:24.020
<v SPEAKER_4>No, that's the way I would have done it instead of stupid Robert Downey.

01:18:24.020 --> 01:18:27.640
<v SPEAKER_3>We are being just like Billy Wilder and IAL Diamond right now.

01:18:27.640 --> 01:18:27.920
<v SPEAKER_4>Good job.

01:18:27.920 --> 01:18:29.560
<v SPEAKER_4>Except you are typing.

01:18:29.560 --> 01:18:30.100
<v SPEAKER_3>Exactly.

01:18:30.100 --> 01:18:31.160
<v SPEAKER_4>I am on the couch.

01:18:31.160 --> 01:18:32.300
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, that's the way they do it.

01:18:32.300 --> 01:18:33.520
<v SPEAKER_3>They switch.

01:18:34.640 --> 01:18:36.020
<v SPEAKER_4>No swallowing jokes.

01:18:36.080 --> 01:18:37.580
<v SPEAKER_4>That was the last show.

01:18:38.880 --> 01:18:39.540
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:18:40.620 --> 01:19:02.620
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's go to the farmhouse scene where Dustin Hoffman goes with Elsa and I guess calls Devane and they all come to meet him at this farmhouse and there's the showdown between Devane and the evil characters and Dustin Hoffman.

01:19:02.700 --> 01:19:14.920
<v SPEAKER_3>Question for you FT, why does Janey kill his own henchmen and give Babe the address where Zell is going to be at the bank?

01:19:15.960 --> 01:19:19.180
<v SPEAKER_3>Why does Devane help Babe out?

01:19:20.320 --> 01:19:21.480
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

01:19:21.480 --> 01:19:23.980
<v SPEAKER_4>Covering his tracks to...

01:19:24.960 --> 01:19:25.880
<v SPEAKER_3>How does that cover his tracks?

01:19:25.880 --> 01:19:31.020
<v SPEAKER_3>That wouldn't cover, it would be the reverse because he could have killed Babe right in the farmhouse.

01:19:31.020 --> 01:19:32.100
<v SPEAKER_3>That's covering his tracks.

01:19:32.100 --> 01:19:35.100
<v SPEAKER_3>Now Babe's walking around alive, so it's the reverse of covering his tracks.

01:19:35.100 --> 01:19:38.100
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, but he tries to kill Babe, he shoots at him.

01:19:38.100 --> 01:19:39.720
<v SPEAKER_4>Doesn't he?

01:19:39.740 --> 01:19:40.900
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't think so.

01:19:40.900 --> 01:19:41.600
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, he does.

01:19:42.860 --> 01:19:48.600
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, he shoots the other guys because he wants, I think he does, but he gets shot.

01:19:48.600 --> 01:19:49.860
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know about that.

01:19:49.860 --> 01:19:51.780
<v SPEAKER_4>So he just lets him go is what you're saying?

01:19:51.780 --> 01:19:52.360
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't think so.

01:19:52.620 --> 01:19:58.200
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no, yeah, no, he gives him, he gives babe the, Zell's gonna be at this bank at this time.

01:19:58.200 --> 01:19:58.800
<v SPEAKER_3>He gives him the answer.

01:19:58.800 --> 01:19:59.920
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, that's true, he does, why?

01:19:59.920 --> 01:20:01.120
<v SPEAKER_3>And he kills his own henchman.

01:20:01.120 --> 01:20:03.020
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm asking you why.

01:20:03.020 --> 01:20:04.320
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know why.

01:20:04.320 --> 01:20:07.280
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, to me, it's one of the lamest scenes in the entire film, by the way.

01:20:07.280 --> 01:20:22.280
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, well again, this comes back to the book, the book versus film, the book versus film conundrum, but I'm gonna let you answer it yourself by a closer reading of the film, an FT Kosempa style close read of the film, okay?

01:20:25.240 --> 01:20:26.040
<v SPEAKER_3>All right, ready?

01:20:26.040 --> 01:20:27.800
<v SPEAKER_3>I'll help you, I'll guide you there.

01:20:27.800 --> 01:20:30.840
<v SPEAKER_3>So go back to the, go back to, what?

01:20:30.840 --> 01:20:32.300
<v SPEAKER_4>Nothing.

01:20:32.300 --> 01:20:32.920
<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you.

01:20:33.100 --> 01:20:40.860
<v SPEAKER_3>Go back to the first scene with Roy Scheider in the Paris hotel room.

01:20:40.860 --> 01:20:41.840
<v SPEAKER_3>He gets on the phone.

01:20:41.840 --> 01:20:43.700
<v SPEAKER_3>Who does he call?

01:20:43.700 --> 01:20:48.480
<v SPEAKER_4>He wants to have a triest with Janie, William Devane.

01:20:49.000 --> 01:20:49.520
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:20:50.640 --> 01:20:52.000
<v SPEAKER_3>So, Devane is...

01:20:52.000 --> 01:20:52.860
<v SPEAKER_4>They're lovers.

01:20:52.860 --> 01:20:53.640
<v SPEAKER_3>They're lovers.

01:20:54.260 --> 01:21:06.120
<v SPEAKER_3>So that's why he wants, so he knows that Zell has killed his lover, Doc, and so he wants Babe to go kill Zell.

01:21:06.120 --> 01:21:07.340
<v SPEAKER_3>He can kill Zell, right?

01:21:07.340 --> 01:21:13.020
<v SPEAKER_3>Because his job is protecting Zell for the division or what?

01:21:13.020 --> 01:21:13.660
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

01:21:13.720 --> 01:21:14.620
<v SPEAKER_3>No what?

01:21:15.580 --> 01:21:17.600
<v SPEAKER_4>Anyhow, continue with your theory, but it's...

01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:18.600
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's not my theory.

01:21:18.900 --> 01:21:20.040
<v SPEAKER_3>It's in the book.

01:21:20.220 --> 01:21:20.840
<v SPEAKER_3>They're lovers.

01:21:20.840 --> 01:21:23.100
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, it's different in the movie, then.

01:21:23.100 --> 01:21:25.140
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no, it's just not explained.

01:21:25.140 --> 01:21:26.520
<v SPEAKER_3>In the movie, it's very subtle.

01:21:26.980 --> 01:21:28.940
<v SPEAKER_3>You think he's on the phone with a woman named Janie.

01:21:28.940 --> 01:21:29.980
<v SPEAKER_3>Hey, come on over here.

01:21:29.980 --> 01:21:31.720
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, at the beginning, you do, right?

01:21:31.720 --> 01:21:35.200
<v SPEAKER_3>But they're lovers, and Devane...

01:21:35.200 --> 01:21:45.440
<v SPEAKER_3>Janie cannot kill Zell because the division has to keep Zell alive, but he can sure help Babe to hopefully kill Zell.

01:21:45.440 --> 01:21:46.240
<v SPEAKER_4>True.

01:21:46.300 --> 01:21:51.380
<v SPEAKER_4>Now, the only problem with that reading is that at the end of the torture scene, Yes.

01:21:51.380 --> 01:21:56.600
<v SPEAKER_4>when Olivier, when Zell says, you know, get rid of him, he doesn't know anything.

01:21:56.820 --> 01:21:59.900
<v SPEAKER_4>Devane then says, we don't need you anymore, you're obsolete.

01:21:59.900 --> 01:22:00.540
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:22:00.540 --> 01:22:00.820
<v SPEAKER_3>No.

01:22:00.820 --> 01:22:01.900
<v SPEAKER_4>He gets rid of him.

01:22:02.380 --> 01:22:05.500
<v SPEAKER_3>No, wait, he gets rid of Zell?

01:22:05.500 --> 01:22:06.220
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:22:06.220 --> 01:22:07.140
<v SPEAKER_3>No, he doesn't get rid of him.

01:22:07.180 --> 01:22:19.200
<v SPEAKER_3>He's like, no, no, he says, and again, this is another convention of thrillers, which I don't know if Goldman invented, but it was pretty early on, the ticking clock thing.

01:22:19.200 --> 01:22:22.800
<v SPEAKER_3>So he says, you've got till one o'clock tomorrow and you got to be out of the country.

01:22:22.800 --> 01:22:25.880
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm done babysitting you here.

01:22:25.880 --> 01:22:26.480
<v SPEAKER_3>You're gonna leave.

01:22:26.940 --> 01:22:28.840
<v SPEAKER_4>You're of no use to us anymore.

01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:31.160
<v SPEAKER_3>Which sets the clock in motion.

01:22:31.540 --> 01:22:31.780
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

01:22:31.780 --> 01:22:31.940
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

01:22:31.940 --> 01:22:32.140
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

01:22:32.380 --> 01:22:34.240
<v SPEAKER_3>But he's not authorized to kill Zell.

01:22:34.240 --> 01:22:37.240
<v SPEAKER_3>He just, you know, gets him out of the country.

01:22:37.240 --> 01:22:40.740
<v SPEAKER_3>But he can use Babe to kill Zell, which is what happens.

01:22:40.740 --> 01:22:53.880
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it's interesting, because what I thought about when you were saying this was, you know, as brilliant as the, as really good as the bathroom scene was, that's how poorly planned, I think, the farmhouse living room scene was.

01:22:53.880 --> 01:22:58.360
<v SPEAKER_4>There were so many people crammed in that room and the distances were just so bad.

01:22:58.360 --> 01:22:59.340
<v SPEAKER_4>The eye lines were off.

01:22:59.980 --> 01:23:02.620
<v SPEAKER_4>It was a couple of cases where his eye lines were off, you know.

01:23:02.620 --> 01:23:12.620
<v SPEAKER_4>And I mean, he's, you know, my whole thinking was that he's going to cover himself, the double agent pack, that he's going to kill the Nazis because they're of no use anymore.

01:23:12.620 --> 01:23:14.960
<v SPEAKER_4>There's no more Nazis to get.

01:23:14.960 --> 01:23:16.100
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that's what I was thinking.

01:23:16.260 --> 01:23:18.560
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, I think you're overthinking it.

01:23:18.560 --> 01:23:23.540
<v SPEAKER_3>And you're right, Schlesinger violated a couple of the key rules of…

01:23:23.540 --> 01:23:24.700
<v SPEAKER_4>I think you're under thinking it.

01:23:26.800 --> 01:23:29.760
<v SPEAKER_3>But Schlesinger did violate a couple of the key rules of directing.

01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:34.340
<v SPEAKER_3>Number one being never work with animals, two, never shoot in a farmhouse.

01:23:34.340 --> 01:23:36.540
<v SPEAKER_2>Never shoot a bad scene, you know, yeah.

01:23:36.540 --> 01:23:37.420
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:23:37.420 --> 01:23:38.900
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

01:23:39.260 --> 01:23:40.960
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's go to the ending, ending.

01:23:40.960 --> 01:23:47.900
<v SPEAKER_3>And of course, I refer to the scene in The Water Works, which apparently took six months to build that friggin set.

01:23:47.900 --> 01:23:49.120
<v SPEAKER_5>It looked it.

01:23:49.180 --> 01:23:49.700
<v SPEAKER_3>You love that?

01:23:49.700 --> 01:23:50.580
<v SPEAKER_3>You love the scene in The Water Works?

01:23:50.580 --> 01:23:51.360
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I said it looked it.

01:23:51.360 --> 01:23:51.880
<v SPEAKER_4>It looked it.

01:23:51.880 --> 01:23:52.460
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, okay.

01:23:52.900 --> 01:23:57.480
<v SPEAKER_3>It was a good set, but what did you think of the scene in The Water Works, FT Go?

01:23:57.480 --> 01:23:59.280
<v SPEAKER_3>And I'm not gonna tell you whether to shit on it or not.

01:23:59.280 --> 01:24:00.300
<v SPEAKER_3>You're on your own.

01:24:00.300 --> 01:24:01.080
<v SPEAKER_4>Poop on it.

01:24:01.080 --> 01:24:02.340
<v SPEAKER_4>You put it down.

01:24:02.340 --> 01:24:04.720
<v SPEAKER_4>It's not too much shit.

01:24:04.720 --> 01:24:06.020
<v SPEAKER_4>It was interesting.

01:24:07.620 --> 01:24:09.500
<v SPEAKER_4>No, it was interesting.

01:24:09.500 --> 01:24:10.240
<v SPEAKER_4>You know what I'm saying?

01:24:10.240 --> 01:24:12.200
<v SPEAKER_4>Did I like it?

01:24:12.440 --> 01:24:23.800
<v SPEAKER_4>I found, of course, I found it interesting that Hoffman's solution, instead of just shooting him, was to make him swallow the diamonds.

01:24:23.800 --> 01:24:25.600
<v SPEAKER_4>Now, this is Robert Towne's ending, right?

01:24:25.600 --> 01:24:29.260
<v SPEAKER_4>Apparently, what people think, you know, that was tacked on.

01:24:29.260 --> 01:24:30.920
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it's different than the book.

01:24:30.920 --> 01:24:33.280
<v SPEAKER_3>No, let's clarify.

01:24:33.280 --> 01:24:36.200
<v SPEAKER_3>Robert Towne rewrote the ending.

01:24:36.200 --> 01:24:39.360
<v SPEAKER_3>And so I guess my question is, did Robert Towne fuck up the ending?

01:24:40.520 --> 01:24:42.880
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, I don't know.

01:24:42.880 --> 01:24:43.840
<v SPEAKER_4>What's the other ending?

01:24:43.840 --> 01:24:47.960
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, you know, Goldman's ending is Babe, you know, babe shoots them.

01:24:47.960 --> 01:24:51.300
<v SPEAKER_3>I think they walk, you know, at gunpoint, he takes them around Central Park.

01:24:51.300 --> 01:24:55.480
<v SPEAKER_3>And, you know, they have a, you know, the typical thing, you know, this you did.

01:24:55.480 --> 01:24:56.700
<v SPEAKER_3>And then shoots them.

01:24:56.700 --> 01:25:00.560
<v SPEAKER_3>And then the police come in and lead away Dustin Hoffman.

01:25:00.560 --> 01:25:00.960
<v SPEAKER_4>All right.

01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:07.560
<v SPEAKER_4>Let me ask you this, then, because that's one of my problems with this ending is, what happens to the diamonds in Goldman's ending?

01:25:10.420 --> 01:25:11.660
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

01:25:11.660 --> 01:25:12.820
<v SPEAKER_3>They did shoot that.

01:25:12.820 --> 01:25:13.500
<v SPEAKER_3>It was cut out.

01:25:13.500 --> 01:25:18.340
<v SPEAKER_3>So basically, I think they, I don't know why they used it again.

01:25:18.340 --> 01:25:21.340
<v SPEAKER_3>So I think the end, they shot, unfortunately didn't do it.

01:25:21.340 --> 01:25:25.160
<v SPEAKER_3>I think they used, which is weird, because it was in Butch Cassidy.

01:25:25.240 --> 01:25:29.000
<v SPEAKER_3>It's basically a montage over raindrops keep falling on my head.

01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:33.860
<v SPEAKER_3>And it just shows New Yorkers turning on their taps and diamonds coming out and they, you know, they smile.

01:25:34.080 --> 01:25:41.960
<v SPEAKER_3>And there's like, there's a, and there's rainbows and special effects where, you know, people would get a diamond and smile on it and their glint would come off.

01:25:42.660 --> 01:25:46.580
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, eyeballs, yes, star filters all galore.

01:25:46.580 --> 01:25:50.060
<v SPEAKER_3>But to your question, in the novel, I assume what happened.

01:25:50.060 --> 01:25:54.000
<v SPEAKER_3>So again, Hoffman shoots Zell in Central Park and the police take him away.

01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:57.900
<v SPEAKER_3>So I assume the diamonds are still in the briefcase at that point.

01:25:57.900 --> 01:25:59.960
<v SPEAKER_4>Who gets a briefcase?

01:25:59.960 --> 01:26:01.480
<v SPEAKER_4>Unknown, or you don't know.

01:26:01.940 --> 01:26:04.840
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, what struck me was two things.

01:26:04.840 --> 01:26:09.600
<v SPEAKER_4>I did find it clever that he makes him eat it or try to.

01:26:09.600 --> 01:26:12.480
<v SPEAKER_3>Essen, Essen, Essen.

01:26:12.480 --> 01:26:17.240
<v SPEAKER_4>Delica, undelica Essen, yes.

01:26:17.240 --> 01:26:23.140
<v SPEAKER_4>And I did like the tension there where the Nazi refuses it.

01:26:23.140 --> 01:26:26.620
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm the one that should be doing this torture, not you.

01:26:27.100 --> 01:26:39.920
<v SPEAKER_3>There's another interesting little twist on stereotypes there that we should take note of is that the the Jew doesn't care about riches and the the German is all about the money.

01:26:39.920 --> 01:26:43.000
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, true.

01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:57.900
<v SPEAKER_4>Also then, well, interestingly enough, it's so weird because, you know, that's what I wrote a note saying like, oh, I'm an idealist, you know, remember, he says, I'm the idealist, my father, you know, died for a cause, you know, a free speech.

01:26:58.180 --> 01:27:00.100
<v SPEAKER_4>So I'm not going to take the money at all.

01:27:00.100 --> 01:27:02.380
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm not going to take the diamonds and do good with it.

01:27:02.380 --> 01:27:13.560
<v SPEAKER_4>No way, which I found to be like fucking bullshit, you know, but technically that scene, the diamonds spill all over the place when Zell falls down the stairs.

01:27:13.760 --> 01:27:18.540
<v SPEAKER_4>And then there's still many of them in the briefcase when it's open at the bottom.

01:27:18.540 --> 01:27:21.700
<v SPEAKER_4>It was just so poorly done.

01:27:21.800 --> 01:27:25.180
<v SPEAKER_4>It's not, the briefcase is not emptied at the bottom.

01:27:25.180 --> 01:27:26.480
<v SPEAKER_4>And that would have been impossible.

01:27:27.340 --> 01:27:36.980
<v SPEAKER_4>But anyhow, you know, so, but I think it's a more effective, be honest with you, it's a more effective scene than Dusty just shooting Zell.

01:27:36.980 --> 01:27:38.820
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, what's, what's kind of good about it?

01:27:38.960 --> 01:27:53.260
<v SPEAKER_3>What's kind of good about town's ending is it's, it's, it's, it's kind of based on tragedy, even though Zell is not the protagonist, Zell brings about, you know, his greed for the diamonds has brought about his own downfall.

01:27:53.260 --> 01:28:01.380
<v SPEAKER_3>It's what brings him out of safety, it brings him to New York and then going after these diamonds would cause him to trip and fall and, and die.

01:28:01.380 --> 01:28:02.080
<v SPEAKER_4>So he brings about his own-

01:28:02.080 --> 01:28:04.180
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, he gets impaled on his own knife too, right?

01:28:04.180 --> 01:28:06.360
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, hoisted on his own petard.

01:28:06.360 --> 01:28:09.560
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, which is, yes, right.

01:28:09.560 --> 01:28:12.100
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's move on to acting, FT.

01:28:12.100 --> 01:28:16.900
<v SPEAKER_3>Two principal actors, Dustin Hoffman, Sir Lawrence Olivier.

01:28:16.900 --> 01:28:19.340
<v SPEAKER_3>Why don't we start with Hoffman, your thoughts?

01:28:19.580 --> 01:28:21.160
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought he was really believable.

01:28:21.160 --> 01:28:27.140
<v SPEAKER_4>There were times where I think there were script problems, but I think you had issues with Dustin's performance.

01:28:27.140 --> 01:28:28.000
<v SPEAKER_4>You said so.

01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:30.200
<v SPEAKER_4>What did you find unbelievable about it?

01:28:30.200 --> 01:28:40.900
<v SPEAKER_3>I felt, and I think it might have been strangely spotlighted by the contrast with Olivier's approach.

01:28:42.180 --> 01:28:45.820
<v SPEAKER_3>Was so different than Hoffman with the method approach.

01:28:45.820 --> 01:28:56.220
<v SPEAKER_3>So, but for instance, the scene where he's being questioned by the cops and then Janeway after his brother's death.

01:28:56.220 --> 01:29:00.360
<v SPEAKER_3>His, he's, it felt false to me.

01:29:01.180 --> 01:29:04.580
<v SPEAKER_3>His, his emotion, you know, his, you know.

01:29:04.580 --> 01:29:05.440
<v SPEAKER_4>What do you want?

01:29:05.440 --> 01:29:06.900
<v SPEAKER_4>What are you brothering me for?

01:29:07.140 --> 01:29:10.220
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:10.220 --> 01:29:13.220
<v SPEAKER_2>You look at me like I'm doing something wrong.

01:29:13.220 --> 01:29:14.400
<v SPEAKER_2>Like I did something wrong.

01:29:14.400 --> 01:29:15.160
<v SPEAKER_6>I don't understand it.

01:29:17.980 --> 01:29:19.940
<v SPEAKER_6>I'm trying to tell you, I don't know anything.

01:29:19.940 --> 01:29:20.640
<v SPEAKER_2>Your name, please.

01:29:20.640 --> 01:29:22.160
<v SPEAKER_3>I told you my name.

01:29:22.160 --> 01:29:23.000
<v SPEAKER_2>Take it easy, will you?

01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:25.040
<v SPEAKER_6>My name is Thomas Babington Levy.

01:29:25.040 --> 01:29:25.820
<v SPEAKER_2>You're a student.

01:29:25.820 --> 01:29:27.520
<v SPEAKER_6>I come from a family of historians.

01:29:27.520 --> 01:29:30.160
<v SPEAKER_6>Here, here's my card, and that's the proof.

01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:33.320
<v SPEAKER_6>Please put those papers down.

01:29:33.320 --> 01:29:36.120
<v SPEAKER_5>Please tell them to put the papers down.

01:29:36.120 --> 01:29:36.920
<v SPEAKER_3>Take it easy.

01:29:36.920 --> 01:29:38.740
<v SPEAKER_3>What's in the papers?

01:29:38.840 --> 01:29:41.600
<v SPEAKER_6>They have to do with the paper that I'm writing.

01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:43.040
<v SPEAKER_5>Would you tell me who this is?

01:29:43.680 --> 01:30:00.760
<v SPEAKER_3>It felt false, and it felt like, you know, I was watching an actor who was doing, you know, dipping into memories and getting more, and it seemed like whatever he was working from was the wrong, the wrong things.

01:30:00.760 --> 01:30:04.080
<v SPEAKER_3>It was, you know, of course, there's gonna be grief there.

01:30:04.080 --> 01:30:05.480
<v SPEAKER_3>There's gonna be shock.

01:30:05.480 --> 01:30:08.820
<v SPEAKER_3>But again, the way he, it just felt false to me.

01:30:08.960 --> 01:30:15.400
<v SPEAKER_3>And again, we all have our own things, but if I was directing him there or editing, I would have picked a different take there.

01:30:15.400 --> 01:30:21.640
<v SPEAKER_3>And I felt so much that he was doing, you know, he was doing too much.

01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:26.600
<v SPEAKER_3>And this, you know, his, the stories from the set, you're probably aware of them.

01:30:26.700 --> 01:30:34.820
<v SPEAKER_3>And the big, you know, the big myth and controversy about Hoffman and Olivier, you know, are part of this whole thing.

01:30:35.040 --> 01:30:37.220
<v SPEAKER_3>You're aware of the big, the big myth and controversy.

01:30:37.220 --> 01:30:39.760
<v SPEAKER_4>The famous line, the famous line.

01:30:39.760 --> 01:30:53.520
<v SPEAKER_3>So Hoffman, for instance, whenever he was supposed to be out of breath, went out, would go out and run a half mile to come out of breath, because he would say, you know, he'd say, you can't fake being out of breath.

01:30:53.520 --> 01:31:02.740
<v SPEAKER_3>And Bob Evans talked about, you know, they waited for him for an hour, you know, it might have been an hour Hoffman deciding whether he should take his shirt on or shirt off.

01:31:02.740 --> 01:31:12.000
<v SPEAKER_3>And then where the story comes from is, you know, Hoffman told Olivier that he had stayed up for three nights, you know, to look tired.

01:31:12.000 --> 01:31:17.360
<v SPEAKER_3>And Olivier says, maybe you should just try, why don't you just try acting?

01:31:17.360 --> 01:31:32.080
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's become kind of infamous, and that Hoffman has gone on inside the actor's studio and said, oh, no, no, it was all just, you know, I was out at Studio 54, I was partying then I was just up and, you know, it was all in good fun.

01:31:33.300 --> 01:31:38.600
<v SPEAKER_3>But Evans, Evans telling of it, and from what I heard, they did get along very well.

01:31:38.600 --> 01:31:48.880
<v SPEAKER_3>So if Olivier said it, it was, you know, with a lifted eyebrow about the way Hoffman was preparing.

01:31:48.880 --> 01:31:59.520
<v SPEAKER_3>Apparently, Devane and Scheider were endlessly mocking, you know, making fun of Olivier, calling him a sir of this, and so I think there was a lot of joking around.

01:31:59.520 --> 01:32:11.120
<v SPEAKER_3>So it wasn't like an animosity thing, but it was telling, and Hoffman was infamous for, like I said, every time he had to be out of breath, they had to go wait for him to run around the block.

01:32:11.120 --> 01:32:24.020
<v SPEAKER_3>Evan said that whenever Hoffman, you know, whenever he asked Hoffman, you know, how do you like acting with Lawrence Olivier, Hoffman would always say, he's marvelous in the theater.

01:32:24.020 --> 01:32:25.160
<v SPEAKER_4>Huh.

01:32:25.160 --> 01:32:26.000
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:26.900
<v SPEAKER_4>Whatever, yeah.

01:32:26.900 --> 01:32:38.640
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, so kind of cutting, a little bit cutting there, but for me, and, you know, I'm an uneducated, you know, I don't know Shakespeare.

01:32:38.640 --> 01:32:46.920
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know, so coming into this, I'd be like, yeah, I'm not gonna, I don't like, you know, I'm not gonna like the classical training that Olivier's had.

01:32:46.920 --> 01:32:58.580
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm gonna be all about the method and Hoffman, but watching these actors in this movie, I come out on, you know, whatever Olivier was doing, worked much better for me.

01:32:58.820 --> 01:33:10.900
<v SPEAKER_3>And it was interesting, we've talked about, in previous podcasts were, you know, in my acting training with, and I'm sorry, in the last podcast, I think I said Jean Shelton, the teacher I had, was a member of the actors.

01:33:10.900 --> 01:33:16.280
<v SPEAKER_3>She was actually, she was in the group theater, so all the way back.

01:33:16.520 --> 01:33:24.880
<v SPEAKER_3>And, you know, in the master class, she revealed that it was all about script analysis, which I love to hear, because I was like, I can do that.

01:33:24.940 --> 01:33:29.480
<v SPEAKER_3>And these, mostly I was studying acting to be a better writer and a better director.

01:33:29.480 --> 01:33:35.620
<v SPEAKER_3>And what I found out about Olivier's technique is it is all about the script.

01:33:35.620 --> 01:33:44.500
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, he's so precise in the, you know, when he comes into that room for the torture screen, his physical actions are so precise and perfect.

01:33:44.500 --> 01:33:51.300
<v SPEAKER_3>The way he takes Dustin Hoffman's head to put the dental tools in is like gentle.

01:33:51.360 --> 01:34:07.680
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, he's come, he, he, and what's, what's interesting, you know, he does not condesce, he doesn't play the villain as a villain, which is precisely the way you have to play a villain, because villains never think they're villains.

01:34:07.680 --> 01:34:10.700
<v SPEAKER_3>Villains always think they're, you know, good guys.

01:34:10.700 --> 01:34:12.620
<v SPEAKER_3>They never think they're villainous.

01:34:12.620 --> 01:34:14.780
<v SPEAKER_4>They often, they often don't think, right.

01:34:14.780 --> 01:34:18.300
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's interesting because he's playing Joseph Mengele.

01:34:18.820 --> 01:34:26.800
<v SPEAKER_3>And if you've read any of the stuff about Mengele, he never felt he was doing anything wrong.

01:34:26.800 --> 01:34:37.760
<v SPEAKER_3>In fact, so Mengele, one of Mengele's main jobs was to stand on the platforms at the rail station and the rail cars would come in loaded with Jews.

01:34:38.840 --> 01:34:45.620
<v SPEAKER_3>And Mengele would just stand on the platform in uniform and just as they came off point.

01:34:46.700 --> 01:34:52.460
<v SPEAKER_3>And if he pointed one way, the people were sent to the gas chambers to die.

01:34:52.460 --> 01:34:55.400
<v SPEAKER_3>If he pointed the other way, they were sent to the camps to work.

01:34:55.420 --> 01:34:57.800
<v SPEAKER_4>And so the angel part, life and death.

01:34:57.940 --> 01:34:58.280
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

01:34:58.280 --> 01:35:04.740
<v SPEAKER_3>And so Mengele's son, Rolf, talked about his father.

01:35:04.740 --> 01:35:09.380
<v SPEAKER_3>And Mengele to the end never said he never did anything wrong.

01:35:09.540 --> 01:35:19.680
<v SPEAKER_3>And his son, Rolf, summarized his father, Joseph Mengele's words, quote, He couldn't help anyone on the platform, for instance.

01:35:19.680 --> 01:35:23.920
<v SPEAKER_3>What was he to do when the half dead and infected people arrived?

01:35:23.920 --> 01:35:28.680
<v SPEAKER_3>His job was to clarify only able to work and unable to work.

01:35:28.680 --> 01:35:31.960
<v SPEAKER_3>He thinks he saved the lives of thousands of people in that way.

01:35:31.960 --> 01:35:35.460
<v SPEAKER_3>He hasn't ordered the extermination and he's not doing the extermination.

01:35:35.520 --> 01:35:37.080
<v SPEAKER_3>He's not responsible.

01:35:37.080 --> 01:35:41.180
<v SPEAKER_3>Also the twins owe their lives to him.

01:35:41.180 --> 01:35:42.100
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you know what that refers to?

01:35:42.680 --> 01:35:45.800
<v SPEAKER_4>No, it's just ringing a bell.

01:35:46.720 --> 01:35:48.100
<v SPEAKER_3>He wanted to experiment.

01:35:48.100 --> 01:35:50.780
<v SPEAKER_3>He's fascinated by twins because of his eugenics work.

01:35:51.520 --> 01:35:54.980
<v SPEAKER_3>So, again, that's why he's so twisted here.

01:35:54.980 --> 01:35:59.940
<v SPEAKER_3>In his mind, he saved the lives of all these twins by doing...

01:35:59.940 --> 01:36:01.120
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, I don't mean to...

01:36:01.120 --> 01:36:06.580
<v SPEAKER_3>He saved the lives of all these twins by saying, oh yeah, let's take them and experiment on them.

01:36:06.580 --> 01:36:09.000
<v SPEAKER_3>And he saved the lives of all these people.

01:36:09.100 --> 01:36:12.420
<v SPEAKER_3>He said, oh, you know, you can, you know, I'll spare you.

01:36:12.420 --> 01:36:15.140
<v SPEAKER_3>But the people who died, that wasn't him.

01:36:15.140 --> 01:36:17.000
<v SPEAKER_3>He wasn't doing the exterminating.

01:36:17.000 --> 01:36:27.880
<v SPEAKER_3>So, again, this was my point here is, and that's what was so great about Olivier's performance here is, again, he's a guy doing what he has to do, you know?

01:36:27.880 --> 01:36:29.480
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:36:29.480 --> 01:36:31.380
<v SPEAKER_3>It doesn't see himself as an evil person.

01:36:31.380 --> 01:36:33.260
<v SPEAKER_3>He's not condescending to that.

01:36:33.260 --> 01:36:34.760
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, interesting.

01:36:34.760 --> 01:36:36.120
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, good point.

01:36:36.120 --> 01:36:41.500
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, the usual Nazi excuse was that it was legal, by the way.

01:36:41.500 --> 01:36:43.240
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, or following orders, right.

01:36:43.240 --> 01:36:46.920
<v SPEAKER_4>No, no, no, no, not just following orders.

01:36:46.920 --> 01:36:49.820
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that's the, Nuremberg came out of that.

01:36:49.820 --> 01:36:51.260
<v SPEAKER_4>That's the bullshit.

01:36:51.260 --> 01:36:52.280
<v SPEAKER_4>It was legal.

01:36:52.280 --> 01:36:54.040
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, it was the law.

01:36:55.300 --> 01:37:00.800
<v SPEAKER_4>And so when you're saying following orders, well, are we following the orders by, you know, following the laws in the United States?

01:37:00.860 --> 01:37:09.200
<v SPEAKER_4>I guess so, but anyhow, it was interesting that he had that argument that wasn't that he was just following the law, you know.

01:37:09.200 --> 01:37:10.620
<v SPEAKER_4>But it was legally set up.

01:37:10.620 --> 01:37:15.600
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, it was all legal, you know, the extermination and the labor camps.

01:37:15.600 --> 01:37:17.500
<v SPEAKER_4>That was the law.

01:37:17.500 --> 01:37:18.520
<v SPEAKER_4>Yep.

01:37:18.520 --> 01:37:19.560
<v SPEAKER_4>Jesus.

01:37:19.560 --> 01:37:22.180
<v SPEAKER_3>We are running way, we are running way over here.

01:37:22.180 --> 01:37:29.020
<v SPEAKER_3>So unless anything left to talk about for the supporting actors, I don't really have anything specific to say on the supporting cast.

01:37:29.020 --> 01:37:29.640
<v SPEAKER_3>How about you, FT.?

01:37:30.300 --> 01:37:31.480
<v SPEAKER_4>Nope.

01:37:31.480 --> 01:37:37.620
<v SPEAKER_3>Anything specific to say about the director of photography, Conrad Elhull?

01:37:37.620 --> 01:37:40.820
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm surprised that you didn't bring up the use of Steadicam in this film.

01:37:40.820 --> 01:37:42.620
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, that's where I'm going next.

01:37:42.620 --> 01:37:44.280
<v SPEAKER_4>You usually hate Steadicam.

01:37:44.280 --> 01:37:44.720
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, I do.

01:37:44.920 --> 01:37:46.340
<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't even notice it here.

01:37:46.360 --> 01:37:48.140
<v SPEAKER_4>I did notice Steadicam.

01:37:48.140 --> 01:37:48.420
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:37:48.840 --> 01:37:54.420
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what makes me sad about this film.

01:37:54.420 --> 01:37:57.240
<v SPEAKER_3>I think this is the second film to ever use Steadicam.

01:37:57.340 --> 01:38:01.420
<v SPEAKER_3>So this is where the world starts coming to an end for it.

01:38:01.580 --> 01:38:03.100
<v SPEAKER_3>I detest Steadicams.

01:38:03.100 --> 01:38:08.520
<v SPEAKER_3>And the reason why I think it worked here is they were not really sure what they could do with them.

01:38:08.520 --> 01:38:10.320
<v SPEAKER_3>They used them in a limited way.

01:38:10.320 --> 01:38:11.040
<v SPEAKER_4>Where did they use them?

01:38:11.040 --> 01:38:12.400
<v SPEAKER_4>Do you know?

01:38:12.800 --> 01:38:19.320
<v SPEAKER_3>I would think of the running sequence, which I think that motivates, if you're going to use a Steadicam, use it in a running sequence like that.

01:38:19.320 --> 01:38:25.060
<v SPEAKER_3>But my problem with Steadicams now is like, okay, why bother setting up track?

01:38:25.160 --> 01:38:28.600
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, let's just Steadicam, you know?

01:38:28.600 --> 01:38:34.880
<v SPEAKER_3>But yeah, it didn't bother me in this film, but it bothered me knowing that this was the beginning of the...

01:38:34.880 --> 01:38:35.340
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, right.

01:38:35.340 --> 01:38:38.440
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, well, but it's interesting that you......the beginning of the Steadicam era.

01:38:38.440 --> 01:38:43.440
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, but it's interesting that you said it didn't bother you at the beginning, you know, it's what it led to.

01:38:43.440 --> 01:38:44.500
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, sure.

01:38:44.500 --> 01:38:48.260
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, because you could certainly shoot Dusty running just from a truck.

01:38:48.260 --> 01:38:50.400
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, yes.

01:38:50.400 --> 01:38:57.440
<v SPEAKER_3>All right, so FT, talking about running, we have run out of time.

01:38:57.440 --> 01:38:58.660
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry about that one.

01:38:58.660 --> 01:39:03.180
<v SPEAKER_3>I want to thank everybody for listening to They Shoot Films.

01:39:03.180 --> 01:39:07.160
<v SPEAKER_3>If you haven't already, please give us a rating.

01:39:07.160 --> 01:39:08.760
<v SPEAKER_3>Please give us a review if you can do it.

01:39:08.760 --> 01:39:12.120
<v SPEAKER_3>Please tell your friends to listen to They Shoot Films.

01:39:12.120 --> 01:39:15.560
<v SPEAKER_3>Thank you all for listening to They Shoot Films.

01:39:15.560 --> 01:39:18.340
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm going to say goodbye to you, FT.

01:39:18.340 --> 01:39:22.260
<v SPEAKER_4>And I'm going to say farewell to you, Ken.

01:39:22.440 --> 01:39:23.620
<v SPEAKER_3>Farewell to arms.

01:39:23.620 --> 01:39:25.540
<v SPEAKER_3>Farewell to arms and legs and heads.

01:39:25.540 --> 01:39:27.180
<v SPEAKER_4>And other body parts.

01:39:27.180 --> 01:39:28.160
<v SPEAKER_3>Have a good one, FT.

01:39:28.160 --> 01:39:30.400
<v SPEAKER_4>You too, buddy.

01:39:30.400 --> 01:39:38.980
<v SPEAKER_2>They Shoot Films is a production of Film Symposium West, produced by Anne-Marie De Palma, studio announcer, Roy Blumenfeld.