The Departed

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<v SPEAKER_2>You're listening to THEY SHOOT FILMS with Ken Mercer and FT Kosempa.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Hey there, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of THEY SHOOT FILMS, the podcast where we talk about the movies that matter from California.

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<v SPEAKER_3>My name is Ken Mercer, and I'm here as always with the great FT.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Kosempa, who is currently and is always in the great state of New York.

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<v SPEAKER_3>FT., how are you?

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<v SPEAKER_4>I am well, Ken.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So we're here to talk about The Departed, and there's a big question about The Departed, which is, is The Departed a good movie?

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<v SPEAKER_3>And I would say, maybe, maybe not, maybe fuck yourself.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Of course, that is a lift from Mark Wahlberg, Sergeant Dignan in The Departed, who asked that question of an FBI agent.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, about whether it's a good movie or not.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Maybe if you feed it shit and keep it in the dark, it's going to be fine.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, just like FBI agents, keep them in the dark and feed them shit like mushrooms.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They're like mushrooms.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Let's talk about the origins of The Departed before we dive in and try to give it a typical They Shoot Films critical yet non-critical assessment.

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<v SPEAKER_3>What do you know about the origins of The Departed, FT?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Just that it is a vague remake of one or two films.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Were they Hong Kong films?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Infernal Affairs?

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<v SPEAKER_3>It was actually a trilogy.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Trilogy.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not sure when the American rights got bought and it turned into The Departed.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know if they had done all three, but clearly there was one film called Infernal Affairs, which is a Hong Kong film that I think came out in 2002.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And it got turned into a trilogy.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But keep going, FT., you're hot on the trail of the origins here.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Well, that's about it.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Then it was that's all I know.

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<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that was the origin of it.

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<v SPEAKER_4>And I think this was back when I first saw it, you know, when you were speaking before.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Wasn't Brad Pitt involved in this at one point?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But you're jumping ahead in the origin story.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So it was it was just a little bit ahead.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So 2002, Infernal Affairs came in and apparently it had a pretty big buzz being for a foreign film.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I had never seen it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And the rights actually generate the US rights actually generated somewhat of a bidding war between Plan B, the production company that was associated with Warner Brothers at that time, and the Weinstein Company.

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<v SPEAKER_3>FT, do you know the partners in Plan B?

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<v SPEAKER_4>I do not.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's Brad Pitt's production company at that at that time it was he was partnered with a woman named Jennifer Aniston.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Are you familiar with her?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Of course.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Of course.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Morning show now.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_3>His wife, his wife at the time was the partner in Plan B.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so they were bidding against the Weinstein Company and they dug deep and came up with 1.75 million to buy the US rights to this Hong Kong film Infernal Affairs and to develop it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They hired a writer, Bill Monahan, who was it was it had published a novel and then had had sold a screenplay to Ridley Scott that became the movie Kingdom of Heaven.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Have you ever seen that release?

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<v SPEAKER_5>I have not.

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<v SPEAKER_5>No, I have not.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I've not seen it either.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's not very well regarded.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But apparently they came out with a director's cut, which is added 45 minutes to it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And then apparently that actually has some some pretty good reviews.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But I've not I've not seen it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So Monahan kind of had a buzz in Hollywood.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Monahan was from Boston, and they hired him to write the script for what became The Departed.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They took it to Marty Scorsese, who signed on not knowing that it was a remake.

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<v SPEAKER_3>He read the script and had no idea it was a remake when he signed on.

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<v SPEAKER_4>How about that?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Interesting.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And I think when he found out that he had it was a remake, he was apparently not enthused.

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<v SPEAKER_3>He was not, he didn't want to be known for doing remakes.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And interestingly, did not watch the original film until after he had finally finished The Departed.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, that's a mistake because I would have enthused him, in my opinion, because I started watching it.

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<v SPEAKER_4>You did?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I did.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It just seems, no offense to, you know, a bit amateurish.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Although I was watching a Spanish dubbed version of a Hong Kong film, which made it really weird, you know, but.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, right, because, right, because you don't like to watch films that are in English, so you saw.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I see.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It's just proven to point, you know, and I turned the chroma off the TV to make it black and white.

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<v SPEAKER_4>So maybe that messed around with shit.

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<v SPEAKER_4>But yeah, no, it did feel amateurish, you know, but I saw I saw the bones of the structure there in about the first half hour.

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<v SPEAKER_4>You could see it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, I mean, it's the story.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So how much of it did you watch?

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<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, we're talking about Infernal Affairs, the Hong Kong film now.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Up until just the beginning, in a way, the first 20 minutes or so.

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<v SPEAKER_4>The last thing I was seeing when he was getting out of prison, you know, when as part of being the undercover cover story, yes, when he goes to prison, he was getting out of prison.

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<v SPEAKER_4>And then I was just like, this is, you know, it was kind of hard to watch in a bad dub.

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<v SPEAKER_4>And it just didn't look that good, you know.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_4>So in my opinion, Marty should have watched it and he would say, okay, this script deserves a better treatment, you know.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Because I, so I've watched The Departed many times.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I've always liked it a lot.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so I was always wanting to watch Infernal Affairs.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Criterion put it out as a trilogy, as a three-diss set of all three of the movies.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I couldn't wait to see it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But I signed up for a subscription to the Criterion channel and put on Infernal Affairs.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Was so excited to watch it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And I turned it off after 20 minutes.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I just, I thought it was not, we're probably going to piss off a lot of listeners here, which we can, we can't really afford to do.

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<v SPEAKER_3>We're probably going to piss off the majority of our Hong Kong audience, which unfortunately is 98% of our total audience.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But we've always said on THEY SHOOT FILMS that our job is to tell the truth, tell it like we see it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And yeah, it was not, I turned off Infernal Affairs and never went back to it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Just from my experience with it, it sounds like from your experience with it, Marty did what should happen if you remake a film, you remake it because you can make it a lot better.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

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<v SPEAKER_3>As opposed to so many remakes, which make things worse.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Worse, yes.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Psycho 2, for example.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I like Psycho 2.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Actually, as it came out of my mouth, I think that's Gus Van Zandt, and I think it is supposed to be pretty good.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Have you ever seen Psycho 2?

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<v SPEAKER_4>No, I just, no, but now, you know.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I think it's Gus Van Zandt.

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<v SPEAKER_3>By the way, did you catch the Psycho reference in The Departed?

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<v SPEAKER_4>I did not.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Hit me.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, this was not planned for this part.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So, yeah, so what happens is Matt Damon who plays Colin goes to take a shower.

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<v SPEAKER_3>He's in the apartment with Vera Farmiga, and he goes to take a shower when she gets this envelope that came from Leo, Billy, the William character, and opens it up and finds the CD and starts playing it while Leo is in the shower.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Do you remember that?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Of course.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, and there's tension there because we can see what's going on.

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<v SPEAKER_3>There's a lot of tension there, and so there's tension that he's in the shower, and Marty quotes Psycho cut up to the shower head.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I forget the three shots, but they're literally the three shots from the shower scene in Psycho.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Right, right.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I bet the director's cut will have the CD going down the drain.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It cut from his eyeball to the CD.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Farmiga is how you pronounce the name, apparently.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I was looking it up, and I wanted to make sure, because I was saying Famiglia too.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It's Farmiga.

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<v SPEAKER_4>She's Ukrainian.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, she is?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Wow.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Hmm.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So Marty, the reason Marty claims he signed on was because it reminded him of one of his all-time favorite films.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Do you know what that film is, FT?

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<v SPEAKER_4>So, it's going to be, you already tipped me, an undercover film maybe.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, you got it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You're out on the trail.

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<v SPEAKER_4>An earlier film than Supergoes, Mike is.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, way earlier.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Way earlier?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, who was under, all right, well, wasting valuable airtime.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Which one, what?

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<v SPEAKER_3>White Heat.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, Jesus, right.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Which, remember, in...

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<v SPEAKER_3>Oh my God, yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Cagney's in prison and there's an undercover cop in prison who befriends him, becomes his best friend, but is actually an undercover cop.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So Scorsese got excited about doing it for that reason.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And then in terms of the origins of this film, it was supposed to be the long-awaited Scorsese De Niro reunion.

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<v SPEAKER_3>De Niro was supposed to play the Frank Costello character that went to Nicholson.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I'm glad it was Jack.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I'll be honest with you.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, we're going to have a lot to talk about Jack and acting.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And I'll go with that.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, I'm glad it's Nicholson, too.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It was fresh.

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<v SPEAKER_4>In other words, I like the idea of having a crew working on together and a history and a tradition.

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<v SPEAKER_4>But it was fresh.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It would be, what, De Niro's a mob boss again?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Come on.

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<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, but it would have worked.

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<v SPEAKER_4>No doubt.

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<v SPEAKER_4>It would have worked just fine.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And De Niro turned it down because he wanted to direct The Good Shepherd.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So he turned down the role.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They then went out to Pacino to play Frank Costello.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Scorsese really wanted to work with Pacino, had never worked with him before.

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<v SPEAKER_4>That's what I was going to say, yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Pacino turned it down.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Nicholson.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They went out to Nicholson.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Nicholson turned it down, but they kept going back to him.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And then there was a meeting with Bill Monahan and Scorsese and I think DiCaprio, and Nicholson signed on.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But at that point, Monahan had to do a major rewrite on the script to beef up the role of Frank Costello.

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<v SPEAKER_3>In the script at that point, there was only three scenes with Frank Costello, the Nicholson part.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, so it completely got rewritten to beef up the part for Nicholson to play.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Interesting.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Nice.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Marty, like some other directors, when he starts a film, he brings together the cast and crew into a theater and screens films that he sees as influences or thinks it's important for the cast to see.

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<v SPEAKER_3>FT for $5.

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<v SPEAKER_3>What were the films that Scorsese screened for cast and crew to prep for The Departed?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Should I do it like Jeopardy?

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<v SPEAKER_4>What is White Heat?

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<v SPEAKER_3>No, I don't think he screened that.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, man.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, I know.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know why, because that was the thing that got him excited, but he did, as far as I know, he did not, I was not there, but he did not, as far as I know, screen White Heat.

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<v SPEAKER_3>What films did he screen?

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<v SPEAKER_4>What is?

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<v SPEAKER_4>I have no, Johnny, what's that name?

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<v SPEAKER_4>Donnie Brasco.

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<v SPEAKER_4>What is?

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<v SPEAKER_4>No, it was older stuff, no doubt.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, exactly.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Some Nick Rae film, I'll bet.

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<v SPEAKER_3>No, no, good guess, but no.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Hit me.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You want to give you some clues?

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<v SPEAKER_3>No, well, one clue.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Anthony Mann, Anthony Mann.

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<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, what the hell, Anthony Mann film.

00:12:37.035 --> 00:12:38.275
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm blanking, go ahead.

00:12:38.275 --> 00:12:39.615
<v SPEAKER_3>T-Man and Raw Deal.

00:12:39.615 --> 00:12:43.575
<v SPEAKER_3>He screened two Anthony Mann films, T-Man and Raw Deal.

00:12:43.695 --> 00:12:46.715
<v SPEAKER_3>Hopefully, he did it as a double feature as they should be.

00:12:46.715 --> 00:12:51.695
<v SPEAKER_3>Scarface, the Howard Hawks version, not the Brian DiPama version.

00:12:51.695 --> 00:12:54.575
<v SPEAKER_3>And Public Enemy, which was strange.

00:12:54.575 --> 00:12:58.155
<v SPEAKER_3>He didn't screen White Heat, but he chose Public Enemy.

00:12:58.155 --> 00:13:08.795
<v SPEAKER_3>The whole thing is weird to me because I don't see, I don't really feel the influence of those films in the version of The Departed that we got.

00:13:08.795 --> 00:13:10.195
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you, FT.?

00:13:10.195 --> 00:13:11.015
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I do not.

00:13:11.015 --> 00:13:14.995
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, I haven't seen T-Men in a long time.

00:13:15.195 --> 00:13:17.815
<v SPEAKER_4>I recall that being pretty stiff.

00:13:17.815 --> 00:13:19.295
<v SPEAKER_4>But I don't know.

00:13:19.475 --> 00:13:20.615
<v SPEAKER_4>I know I don't see anything.

00:13:20.615 --> 00:13:23.515
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, A, they're all black and white films.

00:13:24.915 --> 00:13:27.615
<v SPEAKER_4>And B, there's studio films.

00:13:27.615 --> 00:13:28.455
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I don't see it.

00:13:28.455 --> 00:13:30.155
<v SPEAKER_4>But what was he after?

00:13:30.155 --> 00:13:31.375
<v SPEAKER_4>Did he talk about this?

00:13:31.375 --> 00:13:31.775
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know.

00:13:31.775 --> 00:13:56.795
<v SPEAKER_3>But what's interesting to me is clearly what Marty saw here and I think he's talked about it, is that he was going to be making a B movie, you know, a real genre film, a B movie, which was great because I think it freed Marty, you know, since he saw it as a B movie, as a popcorn movie, whatever, I think it really freed him from, you know, and really allowed him to just tell the story which he did a fantastic job on.

00:13:56.795 --> 00:14:20.575
<v SPEAKER_3>It's interesting though because I wonder if Michael Bauhaus, the cinematographer, was asleep in those screenings because if Marty was showing T-Men and Raw Deal, which has such striking cinematography, you know, expressionistic, noir cinematography, Bauhaus did not pick up on those clues one iota in terms of the way he shot this film.

00:14:20.695 --> 00:14:21.495
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:14:21.495 --> 00:14:25.935
<v SPEAKER_3>Casting progressed in some of the other characters.

00:14:25.935 --> 00:14:33.555
<v SPEAKER_3>The part of Sergeant Dignan that went to Mark Wahlberg was supposed to be Ray Liotta, again, working with Scorsese.

00:14:33.555 --> 00:14:34.915
<v SPEAKER_3>He ended up turning it down.

00:14:34.915 --> 00:14:37.715
<v SPEAKER_3>He had another part that he wanted to take.

00:14:37.715 --> 00:14:48.795
<v SPEAKER_3>And FT Gino, who was originally, they originally wanted to play the part of, I think Lieutenant Ellerby, I think he was a lieutenant, the part that went to Alec Baldwin.

00:14:48.795 --> 00:14:49.935
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you know who that was?

00:14:49.935 --> 00:14:50.675
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I do not.

00:14:50.675 --> 00:14:51.795
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't.

00:14:51.795 --> 00:14:52.695
<v SPEAKER_3>They wanted Mel Gibson.

00:14:52.695 --> 00:14:53.755
<v SPEAKER_4>Holy Jesus.

00:14:53.755 --> 00:14:55.675
<v SPEAKER_4>Wow.

00:14:55.715 --> 00:14:56.615
<v SPEAKER_3>So I got to ask you a question.

00:14:56.615 --> 00:14:58.675
<v SPEAKER_3>I need you to take a deep breath and think.

00:14:59.915 --> 00:15:07.775
<v SPEAKER_3>There's a knee-jerk answer here, which is, but go deeper if you can, or go with your knee-jerk, or however you want to do it.

00:15:07.775 --> 00:15:11.415
<v SPEAKER_3>How would Mel Gibson have been in the part of Ellerby, your opinion?

00:15:11.415 --> 00:15:14.255
<v SPEAKER_4>Great.

00:15:14.255 --> 00:15:14.835
<v SPEAKER_3>That was nice.

00:15:14.835 --> 00:15:17.695
<v SPEAKER_3>Did you only do that because I told you not to go knee-jerk?

00:15:17.775 --> 00:15:18.015
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:15:18.015 --> 00:15:20.175
<v SPEAKER_4>I really admire Mel Gibson as an actor.

00:15:20.175 --> 00:15:22.175
<v SPEAKER_4>I do.

00:15:22.175 --> 00:15:22.435
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:15:22.435 --> 00:15:23.315
<v SPEAKER_3>And you're being very clear.

00:15:24.435 --> 00:15:30.035
<v SPEAKER_3>So just to be clear here, FT, because I don't want to lose our Jewish audience, which is...

00:15:30.415 --> 00:15:33.115
<v SPEAKER_3>You admire Mel Gibson as an actor.

00:15:33.115 --> 00:15:34.235
<v SPEAKER_4>Didn't I say that?

00:15:34.235 --> 00:15:34.535
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:15:34.675 --> 00:15:41.875
<v SPEAKER_3>I think Mel Gibson would have probably been better in the role of Ellerby, because we'll talk about acting later.

00:15:41.875 --> 00:15:51.935
<v SPEAKER_3>Alec Baldwin has a goofiness to him in this role that lightens the role, but I'm not quite sure was so right.

00:15:52.055 --> 00:16:00.435
<v SPEAKER_3>So I would have liked to see Gibson in the role, but it's funny to think about when you think about Gibson, Mel Gibson in the role, you're like, boy, Marty really missed a...

00:16:00.435 --> 00:16:04.275
<v SPEAKER_3>dodged a bullet because he would have had the Mel Gibson baggage.

00:16:04.275 --> 00:16:08.055
<v SPEAKER_3>But of course, now he's got the Alec Baldwin baggage.

00:16:08.055 --> 00:16:09.675
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, right, right.

00:16:09.675 --> 00:16:12.155
<v SPEAKER_4>And remember, Mel Gibson did play the beaver.

00:16:14.155 --> 00:16:14.575
<v SPEAKER_3>He did?

00:16:14.575 --> 00:16:16.755
<v SPEAKER_4>Isn't there a movie where he plays the...

00:16:16.755 --> 00:16:18.995
<v SPEAKER_4>He thinks he's a beaver?

00:16:18.995 --> 00:16:20.335
<v SPEAKER_4>Do you know that movie?

00:16:20.335 --> 00:16:21.415
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, is this a porn film?

00:16:22.115 --> 00:16:24.295
<v SPEAKER_4>No, he had a nice try.

00:16:24.295 --> 00:16:25.715
<v SPEAKER_4>No, like he has a hand puppet.

00:16:25.935 --> 00:16:28.455
<v SPEAKER_4>I saw that so long ago, but anyhow.

00:16:28.455 --> 00:16:32.935
<v SPEAKER_4>When you said goofiness, I was just like, hmm, well, okay, you know.

00:16:32.935 --> 00:16:35.175
<v SPEAKER_3>Anyhow.

00:16:35.755 --> 00:16:41.675
<v SPEAKER_3>I've never asked you about this, and it's not something I would want to ask you...

00:16:41.675 --> 00:16:42.595
<v SPEAKER_4>On air.

00:16:42.595 --> 00:16:43.755
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, on a podcast.

00:16:43.755 --> 00:16:47.855
<v SPEAKER_3>But unfortunately, I've never asked about it before, and I don't want to forget to ask you about it again.

00:16:48.295 --> 00:16:51.915
<v SPEAKER_3>What was your take on the Alec Baldwin shooting?

00:16:55.655 --> 00:16:58.995
<v SPEAKER_4>From what I know, the...

00:16:58.995 --> 00:17:02.555
<v SPEAKER_4>All the actors are rehearsed by the gun people.

00:17:02.555 --> 00:17:03.795
<v SPEAKER_4>That's all I'm going to say.

00:17:03.795 --> 00:17:04.215
<v SPEAKER_3>What is that?

00:17:04.215 --> 00:17:05.235
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't even know what that means.

00:17:05.235 --> 00:17:05.975
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know what that means.

00:17:06.155 --> 00:17:09.555
<v SPEAKER_4>How to work a weapon and how to check a weapon.

00:17:09.555 --> 00:17:15.075
<v SPEAKER_4>And, you know, they're really careful about that on sets.

00:17:15.075 --> 00:17:17.835
<v SPEAKER_4>Tarantino said the same thing with Bill Mayer.

00:17:18.935 --> 00:17:22.335
<v SPEAKER_4>Bill Mayer, Bill Mayer, Bill Mayer, Bill Mayer, whatever, he asked him about that.

00:17:23.055 --> 00:17:24.015
<v SPEAKER_3>Go ahead.

00:17:24.115 --> 00:17:27.195
<v SPEAKER_4>Bill Mayer, Bill Mayer, Bill Mayer.

00:17:27.195 --> 00:17:28.955
<v SPEAKER_4>Go ahead, sorry.

00:17:28.955 --> 00:17:31.155
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, but Tarantino says that.

00:17:31.175 --> 00:17:35.875
<v SPEAKER_3>FT., I don't mean to be a jerk-off, but I'm just going to be Mayer.

00:17:36.135 --> 00:17:40.175
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I'm just trying to, again, we try to...

00:17:40.175 --> 00:17:41.775
<v SPEAKER_4>Elevate.

00:17:41.775 --> 00:17:43.735
<v SPEAKER_3>No, go with the audience's comment.

00:17:43.795 --> 00:17:50.115
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, we try to take the audience's comment seriously and we'll give an email address so you two can send in comments.

00:17:50.115 --> 00:17:53.995
<v SPEAKER_3>But constantly, the constant negative comments about your enunciation.

00:17:55.395 --> 00:17:57.435
<v SPEAKER_3>But go ahead, Bill Mayer, go ahead, go.

00:17:57.475 --> 00:17:58.635
<v SPEAKER_4>Mayer.

00:17:58.635 --> 00:18:03.995
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I just said it, that Tarantino says that, you know, there are experts on set with handling weapons.

00:18:03.995 --> 00:18:05.155
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, armors, armors.

00:18:05.155 --> 00:18:08.415
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah, he doesn't bullshit around with that stuff, as nobody said.

00:18:09.175 --> 00:18:10.275
<v SPEAKER_3>You can't bullshit around.

00:18:10.275 --> 00:18:15.275
<v SPEAKER_3>But I think the issue was the armor.

00:18:15.275 --> 00:18:19.795
<v SPEAKER_3>First of all, there should not be actual bullets on a set.

00:18:19.795 --> 00:18:28.135
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, there's blanks, but there's no reason you'd have a live bullet on a gun and on an inside set like that.

00:18:29.535 --> 00:18:38.475
<v SPEAKER_3>And so you would trust, and obviously trust is a dangerous word, as you've learned the hard way dealing with me, FT.

00:18:40.035 --> 00:18:50.775
<v SPEAKER_3>You trust when you're handed a gun on an indoor set that it's not going to have a live actual bullet in it.

00:18:50.775 --> 00:18:56.295
<v SPEAKER_3>That being said, I guess the textbook by the blow technique is you're supposed to check.

00:18:57.395 --> 00:18:59.395
<v SPEAKER_3>And again, I don't know what he would have checked for.

00:18:59.395 --> 00:19:02.055
<v SPEAKER_3>The only thing you would check is, I think it was a revolver.

00:19:02.055 --> 00:19:05.055
<v SPEAKER_3>You would open the cylinder and look, and you would see something in there.

00:19:05.055 --> 00:19:06.255
<v SPEAKER_3>You would have no idea.

00:19:06.255 --> 00:19:07.395
<v SPEAKER_3>You would assume it was a blank.

00:19:07.395 --> 00:19:17.295
<v SPEAKER_3>So even if he opened it up, I don't know what he would have seen unless, I don't know if the shell casings on blanks that they use are like orange, clearly marked.

00:19:19.655 --> 00:19:26.935
<v SPEAKER_3>So I think he got a bad, he was an easy mark at that time since he had played Donald Trump on Saturday Night Live.

00:19:28.195 --> 00:19:29.355
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I'm being serious.

00:19:29.355 --> 00:19:30.035
<v SPEAKER_4>I know, I know.

00:19:30.135 --> 00:19:34.135
<v SPEAKER_3>There are a lot of people gunning for him, no pun intended.

00:19:34.135 --> 00:19:35.215
<v SPEAKER_3>So to speak.

00:19:35.215 --> 00:19:48.615
<v SPEAKER_3>Unfortunately, a lot of the people who were gunning for him were gun owners who then all went on the internet and said, you always check that a gun is unloaded, which is true.

00:19:48.675 --> 00:19:51.255
<v SPEAKER_4>So I took that attack.

00:19:51.255 --> 00:19:52.795
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you mean you took it?

00:19:52.795 --> 00:19:55.055
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, you went with those people.

00:19:55.055 --> 00:19:57.135
<v SPEAKER_4>I just ran with Quentin Tarantino, that's all.

00:19:57.355 --> 00:19:59.335
<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't know it was going to be.

00:19:59.335 --> 00:20:00.675
<v SPEAKER_4>So yeah, isn't that something?

00:20:01.175 --> 00:20:12.795
<v SPEAKER_3>But, and it is true, you know, I think it's just common wisdom, but a cop had told me that the most dangerous gun is an unloaded gun.

00:20:12.795 --> 00:20:16.675
<v SPEAKER_3>And he said, Ken, you never have unloaded guns.

00:20:18.235 --> 00:20:31.235
<v SPEAKER_3>And the reason for that is if you sometimes keep, and we're talking about, let's say, again, for a cop who carries a gun, but for a homeowner, a home defense, if sometimes you keep your guns unloaded, like, oh, well, I'm going to keep them unloaded.

00:20:31.235 --> 00:20:37.235
<v SPEAKER_3>That's when it's dangerous, because then you could think when you pick up the gun, oh, it's unloaded when it's loaded.

00:20:37.235 --> 00:20:44.015
<v SPEAKER_3>But if your gun is always loaded 100% of the time, and you know it's always loaded, you're not going to, you're not going to make that mistake.

00:20:44.755 --> 00:20:48.115
<v SPEAKER_3>But I think Alec, you know, got railroaded.

00:20:49.135 --> 00:20:52.175
<v SPEAKER_3>Film sets are dangerous places.

00:20:53.615 --> 00:20:55.035
<v SPEAKER_3>And I don't think people realize that.

00:20:55.035 --> 00:20:58.335
<v SPEAKER_3>I think people look, oh, making movies are cushy jobs.

00:20:59.795 --> 00:21:01.015
<v SPEAKER_4>It's hard work.

00:21:01.015 --> 00:21:01.695
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:21:01.695 --> 00:21:06.815
<v SPEAKER_4>Especially when you're thrown out of a building and land on the street like Martin Sheen did, and he survived that.

00:21:06.815 --> 00:21:12.415
<v SPEAKER_3>But just in general, film sets are dangerous places.

00:21:14.095 --> 00:21:30.155
<v SPEAKER_3>And, you know, the good news is there's so many safety procedures in place that you rarely hear about people getting their heads lopped off with helicopter blades like Vic Morrow or the cinematographer in the Alec Baldwin incident.

00:21:30.155 --> 00:21:41.655
<v SPEAKER_3>But there are a lot, there were a lot of incidences, and the unions really try, when everything was being shot in, back in the day when everything was being shot in LA, the unions really had to come down.

00:21:41.655 --> 00:21:58.215
<v SPEAKER_3>The, one of the big dangers was accidents driving home, because, you know, shoots would run so late, and crews were booked so much that people would fall asleep at the wheel, driving home and driving home after night shoots.

00:21:58.215 --> 00:22:05.895
<v SPEAKER_3>I remember once a shoot that I was on where we had, we had explosion, we had pyrotechnics, no CGI, a big explosion.

00:22:05.895 --> 00:22:15.255
<v SPEAKER_3>It was supposed to be a car crash explosion, and the pyrotechnic guys were rigging the explosions down this hill from where I was.

00:22:15.255 --> 00:22:17.935
<v SPEAKER_3>I was, I was not the director, I was a writer.

00:22:17.935 --> 00:22:19.455
<v SPEAKER_3>I was standing with the director.

00:22:19.455 --> 00:22:20.695
<v SPEAKER_3>We were prepping the actor.

00:22:20.695 --> 00:22:25.895
<v SPEAKER_3>We were going over everything, getting ready for the shot, at which point there was a huge explosion.

00:22:26.975 --> 00:22:31.575
<v SPEAKER_3>The explosives went off, not when they were supposed to.

00:22:31.575 --> 00:22:37.815
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think that five seconds or ten seconds was like the longest five or ten seconds of my life.

00:22:38.915 --> 00:22:43.515
<v SPEAKER_3>When the assistant director is on the walkie talkie to those guys saying, are you okay?

00:22:44.835 --> 00:22:46.495
<v SPEAKER_3>And there was no answer.

00:22:46.495 --> 00:22:47.355
<v SPEAKER_3>Nothing came back.

00:22:47.395 --> 00:22:50.035
<v SPEAKER_3>And then finally, they're like, we're okay.

00:22:50.035 --> 00:22:57.895
<v SPEAKER_3>But yeah, there's a lot of dangerous stuff that goes on in film sets, stunts, being the most obvious example.

00:22:57.895 --> 00:22:59.115
<v SPEAKER_4>There you go.

00:22:59.115 --> 00:23:01.275
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:23:01.275 --> 00:23:08.395
<v SPEAKER_3>Where for you FT does The Departed rank within the Scorsese canon?

00:23:08.455 --> 00:23:17.195
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I really, it's, I would only say it's up there, because, you know, I don't like the ordering thing.

00:23:17.195 --> 00:23:21.975
<v SPEAKER_4>And it was hard for me to say, well, you know, what is the best, you know, of everything we know.

00:23:21.975 --> 00:23:25.895
<v SPEAKER_4>It's been well established, but it is up there, because it is so well done.

00:23:25.895 --> 00:23:27.795
<v SPEAKER_4>It moves so, you know, smoothly.

00:23:27.795 --> 00:23:31.035
<v SPEAKER_4>The story is delivered in such an interesting way.

00:23:31.035 --> 00:23:32.635
<v SPEAKER_4>I would say top five.

00:23:32.635 --> 00:23:34.095
<v SPEAKER_4>That's the most I can say.

00:23:34.155 --> 00:23:34.655
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:23:35.135 --> 00:23:36.575
<v SPEAKER_3>So here's how's that?

00:23:36.575 --> 00:23:41.175
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, I'm going to hold your feet to the fire here and you answer quickly.

00:23:41.175 --> 00:23:43.795
<v SPEAKER_3>Goodfellas versus Departed.

00:23:43.795 --> 00:23:45.355
<v SPEAKER_2>Goodfellas.

00:23:45.355 --> 00:23:47.315
<v SPEAKER_3>Casino versus Departed.

00:23:47.315 --> 00:23:48.875
<v SPEAKER_4>Departed.

00:23:48.875 --> 00:23:49.535
<v SPEAKER_3>Really?

00:23:49.535 --> 00:23:50.195
<v SPEAKER_2>Wow.

00:23:50.195 --> 00:23:50.655
<v SPEAKER_2>Oh, yeah.

00:23:50.895 --> 00:23:53.335
<v SPEAKER_3>I'd go Casino, I think it's that.

00:23:53.335 --> 00:23:56.135
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, that's a, that's a tough call.

00:23:56.575 --> 00:23:57.495
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's go newer.

00:23:57.495 --> 00:23:59.315
<v SPEAKER_3>Irishman versus Departed.

00:23:59.315 --> 00:24:00.035
<v SPEAKER_4>Departed.

00:24:00.035 --> 00:24:00.355
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:24:00.355 --> 00:24:00.935
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm with you there.

00:24:02.015 --> 00:24:04.715
<v SPEAKER_3>Killers of the Flower Moon versus Departed.

00:24:04.715 --> 00:24:05.875
<v SPEAKER_4>Killers, no.

00:24:05.875 --> 00:24:07.155
<v SPEAKER_4>Killers of the Departed.

00:24:07.155 --> 00:24:07.935
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, Departed.

00:24:07.935 --> 00:24:08.515
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:24:08.515 --> 00:24:12.655
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, what about, you know, getting to the...

00:24:12.655 --> 00:24:13.855
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, I skipped over the big one.

00:24:13.855 --> 00:24:17.435
<v SPEAKER_3>I skipped over the big one and I was trying to let you off easy, but you brought it up.

00:24:17.435 --> 00:24:20.075
<v SPEAKER_3>Raging Bull versus Departed.

00:24:20.075 --> 00:24:22.175
<v SPEAKER_4>Raging Bull only because it was black and white.

00:24:22.175 --> 00:24:23.095
<v SPEAKER_4>And because...

00:24:23.095 --> 00:24:24.175
<v SPEAKER_4>No, seriously, because...

00:24:24.175 --> 00:24:25.615
<v SPEAKER_3>And before 1934.

00:24:25.775 --> 00:24:29.155
<v SPEAKER_4>And because it looked like it was before, and because I couldn't understand De Niro.

00:24:30.135 --> 00:24:31.835
<v SPEAKER_4>No, and De Niro's performance.

00:24:31.835 --> 00:24:32.775
<v SPEAKER_4>What was the movie?

00:24:32.775 --> 00:24:34.375
<v SPEAKER_4>Didn't he do The Last Emperor?

00:24:34.375 --> 00:24:34.935
<v SPEAKER_4>Was that him?

00:24:34.935 --> 00:24:35.635
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, yes.

00:24:35.635 --> 00:24:39.455
<v SPEAKER_4>It's one of those forgotten films, which I don't forget.

00:24:39.455 --> 00:24:39.655
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:24:39.655 --> 00:24:44.755
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, I think Martin's been a guy whose career is one for them, one for me, one for that.

00:24:44.755 --> 00:24:45.955
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, he does a studio film.

00:24:45.955 --> 00:24:46.895
<v SPEAKER_3>He does one for him.

00:24:46.895 --> 00:24:52.395
<v SPEAKER_3>So, you know, the more personal films, Last Emperor, Silence.

00:24:52.395 --> 00:24:52.835
<v SPEAKER_3>Have you ever...

00:24:52.835 --> 00:24:53.855
<v SPEAKER_3>I've never seen Silence.

00:24:53.855 --> 00:24:54.895
<v SPEAKER_3>Have you seen it, FT?

00:24:54.895 --> 00:24:56.535
<v SPEAKER_4>No, it's on my list.

00:24:57.335 --> 00:24:57.995
<v SPEAKER_3>It's hard to see.

00:24:58.315 --> 00:25:01.835
<v SPEAKER_3>It does not play that much unless you go out and pay for it.

00:25:01.835 --> 00:25:16.895
<v SPEAKER_3>So, it's interesting because Marty, when he, I think when he was accepting the Academy Award, said something about how he won for this film because he joked that this was the first film of his...

00:25:16.895 --> 00:25:17.775
<v SPEAKER_4>First movie, right.

00:25:17.775 --> 00:25:18.015
<v SPEAKER_3>What?

00:25:18.015 --> 00:25:18.515
<v SPEAKER_3>Go ahead, Sam.

00:25:18.515 --> 00:25:19.515
<v SPEAKER_4>I know the quote.

00:25:19.515 --> 00:25:20.455
<v SPEAKER_4>Go ahead, then do it.

00:25:20.455 --> 00:25:22.675
<v SPEAKER_4>It's the first movie I've done with a plot.

00:25:22.735 --> 00:25:24.915
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, which sounds...

00:25:24.915 --> 00:25:25.275
<v SPEAKER_3>False.

00:25:25.275 --> 00:25:40.435
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no, it sounds absurd, but then when you think about it, there's a lot of truth there because his big movies that you think about were all real life stories, which being Casino, Goodfellas, Raging Bull, were all real life stories.

00:25:40.435 --> 00:25:45.935
<v SPEAKER_3>And as we know about real life, as much as we think our lives have a plot, they don't.

00:25:45.955 --> 00:25:46.975
<v SPEAKER_4>Hey, watch it, buddy.

00:25:46.975 --> 00:25:50.575
<v SPEAKER_4>I've plotted my life from when I was seven years old, age of reason, eight.

00:25:50.675 --> 00:25:50.995
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:25:50.995 --> 00:25:51.175
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:25:51.535 --> 00:25:54.855
<v SPEAKER_3>From the time you were eight years old, you were plotting to do this podcast with me.

00:25:54.855 --> 00:25:58.455
<v SPEAKER_2>As soon as I learned sarcasm, I started plotting my life.

00:25:58.455 --> 00:26:01.815
<v SPEAKER_3>As soon as you learned sarcasm, you said, I'm going to become a podcaster.

00:26:03.115 --> 00:26:04.795
<v SPEAKER_4>I did not say that.

00:26:04.795 --> 00:26:06.735
<v SPEAKER_3>Put the sarcasm to use.

00:26:08.195 --> 00:26:09.595
<v SPEAKER_3>FT trivia question for you.

00:26:09.595 --> 00:26:10.175
<v SPEAKER_3>This is a hard one.

00:26:10.175 --> 00:26:10.755
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm ready.

00:26:10.755 --> 00:26:11.155
<v SPEAKER_4>Second one.

00:26:11.295 --> 00:26:12.115
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not even trivia.

00:26:12.115 --> 00:26:14.195
<v SPEAKER_3>It's just a general question.

00:26:14.195 --> 00:26:14.915
<v SPEAKER_4>What is life?

00:26:14.915 --> 00:26:16.555
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's an IQ test.

00:26:17.775 --> 00:26:18.875
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, okay.

00:26:18.875 --> 00:26:21.315
<v SPEAKER_3>Where is the Departed set?

00:26:21.315 --> 00:26:22.395
<v SPEAKER_3>Where is the movie set?

00:26:22.395 --> 00:26:24.915
<v SPEAKER_3>Where does it take place?

00:26:24.915 --> 00:26:26.415
<v SPEAKER_4>United States.

00:26:26.415 --> 00:26:28.995
<v SPEAKER_3>Correct, but specifically in Boston.

00:26:29.015 --> 00:26:30.715
<v SPEAKER_4>Not Quincy.

00:26:30.715 --> 00:26:31.375
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:26:31.375 --> 00:26:32.455
<v SPEAKER_4>Not Cambridge.

00:26:32.455 --> 00:26:34.435
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:26:34.435 --> 00:26:36.075
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't think Cambridge is in it.

00:26:36.115 --> 00:26:39.135
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, they say Worcester at one point.

00:26:39.295 --> 00:26:41.855
<v SPEAKER_3>That's not even close.

00:26:41.855 --> 00:26:43.275
<v SPEAKER_4>Clark College is.

00:26:43.715 --> 00:26:44.575
<v SPEAKER_3>Where does...

00:26:44.695 --> 00:26:57.735
<v SPEAKER_3>You just tried, and by the way, I want to commend you for doing such an actual job ranking Departed within the Scorsese pantheon, and actually going along with it instead of saying, I don't rank things.

00:26:57.735 --> 00:26:58.835
<v SPEAKER_3>That's beneath me to rank.

00:26:58.835 --> 00:27:00.315
<v SPEAKER_4>I rank generally.

00:27:00.315 --> 00:27:00.815
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:27:00.955 --> 00:27:01.595
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:27:01.595 --> 00:27:01.875
<v SPEAKER_3>All right.

00:27:01.875 --> 00:27:08.855
<v SPEAKER_3>So where do you rank Departed within the genre of Boston movies?

00:27:08.855 --> 00:27:10.415
<v SPEAKER_4>Number two.

00:27:10.415 --> 00:27:10.795
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:27:10.795 --> 00:27:11.055
<v SPEAKER_3>Cool.

00:27:11.055 --> 00:27:12.515
<v SPEAKER_3>What's number one for you?

00:27:12.515 --> 00:27:13.735
<v SPEAKER_4>Love story.

00:27:15.695 --> 00:27:17.035
<v SPEAKER_3>Is that Boston?

00:27:17.055 --> 00:27:17.675
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:27:17.675 --> 00:27:18.115
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, good.

00:27:18.115 --> 00:27:18.995
<v SPEAKER_3>And that's your favorite?

00:27:18.995 --> 00:27:19.935
<v SPEAKER_4>Harvard.

00:27:19.935 --> 00:27:22.055
<v SPEAKER_3>That's your favorite?

00:27:22.055 --> 00:27:24.775
<v SPEAKER_4>That's my favorite joke of the day.

00:27:24.835 --> 00:27:25.615
<v SPEAKER_4>No, no, no.

00:27:25.615 --> 00:27:26.615
<v SPEAKER_4>I think, you know...

00:27:26.615 --> 00:27:28.975
<v SPEAKER_3>Love story means never having to say you're sorry, FT.

00:27:28.975 --> 00:27:31.855
<v SPEAKER_4>No, always having to say you're sorry.

00:27:31.855 --> 00:27:32.055
<v SPEAKER_3>All right.

00:27:32.055 --> 00:27:36.455
<v SPEAKER_3>So where does Departed rank within Boston movies?

00:27:36.455 --> 00:27:39.975
<v SPEAKER_4>It's interesting because I found it tied...

00:27:39.975 --> 00:27:43.275
<v SPEAKER_3>Before you answer, should I just list some Boston movies to make sure you don't understand?

00:27:43.275 --> 00:27:43.455
<v SPEAKER_3>No, no, no.

00:27:44.475 --> 00:27:45.395
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, one of you listen.

00:27:45.395 --> 00:27:45.755
<v SPEAKER_3>Listen.

00:27:45.755 --> 00:27:47.215
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's get a list before you answer.

00:27:47.215 --> 00:27:48.595
<v SPEAKER_3>What are Boston movies?

00:27:48.595 --> 00:27:54.915
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, the other one, Matt Damon, you know, Goodwill, Goodwill, Goodwill, Film Symposium Days, Goodwill Hunting.

00:27:54.915 --> 00:27:56.655
<v SPEAKER_4>Keep going.

00:27:56.655 --> 00:27:58.055
<v SPEAKER_4>What's the marathon movie?

00:27:58.055 --> 00:28:02.775
<v SPEAKER_4>The Boston Marathon with Patriot Day, Patriot Day with Wahlberg.

00:28:02.775 --> 00:28:03.115
<v SPEAKER_4>You've seen that?

00:28:03.115 --> 00:28:03.835
<v SPEAKER_4>Wahlberg is in that.

00:28:03.835 --> 00:28:04.375
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah.

00:28:04.375 --> 00:28:05.015
<v SPEAKER_3>You've seen that?

00:28:05.015 --> 00:28:06.295
<v SPEAKER_4>No, no, it's on my list.

00:28:06.295 --> 00:28:07.475
<v SPEAKER_4>Last week, I was going to watch it.

00:28:07.475 --> 00:28:08.535
<v SPEAKER_4>I got sidetracked.

00:28:08.535 --> 00:28:10.195
<v SPEAKER_3>I actually actually like that movie a lot.

00:28:10.195 --> 00:28:14.255
<v SPEAKER_3>But again, when I say again, there's a pantheon of Boston movies.

00:28:14.255 --> 00:28:16.035
<v SPEAKER_3>So Goodwill is one of them.

00:28:16.035 --> 00:28:17.135
<v SPEAKER_4>The Fighter, The Fighter.

00:28:17.135 --> 00:28:17.435
<v SPEAKER_3>All right.

00:28:17.435 --> 00:28:19.155
<v SPEAKER_3>I forgot about The Fighter, the David O.

00:28:19.155 --> 00:28:19.715
<v SPEAKER_3>Russell movie.

00:28:20.195 --> 00:28:23.775
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, I like that one a lot because it felt like working class Boston.

00:28:23.775 --> 00:28:24.295
<v SPEAKER_3>Keep going.

00:28:24.295 --> 00:28:24.735
<v SPEAKER_3>List them.

00:28:24.735 --> 00:28:26.195
<v SPEAKER_3>List the big ones.

00:28:26.195 --> 00:28:27.935
<v SPEAKER_3>That's about where I am.

00:28:27.935 --> 00:28:30.835
<v SPEAKER_4>The Verdict is Boston, right?

00:28:30.835 --> 00:28:31.795
<v SPEAKER_4>And Mystic River.

00:28:32.135 --> 00:28:33.675
<v SPEAKER_3>Mystic River.

00:28:33.675 --> 00:28:35.115
<v SPEAKER_3>So let's keep that as the pantheon.

00:28:35.115 --> 00:28:36.815
<v SPEAKER_3>There's other ones, Gone Baby Gone and stuff.

00:28:36.815 --> 00:28:37.955
<v SPEAKER_3>But those are the big ones.

00:28:37.955 --> 00:28:40.975
<v SPEAKER_3>Where does Departed rank in Boston movies?

00:28:45.335 --> 00:28:47.755
<v SPEAKER_3>Mystic River versus Departed, Frank.

00:28:47.755 --> 00:28:49.335
<v SPEAKER_3>Departed.

00:28:49.335 --> 00:28:51.355
<v SPEAKER_3>Good Will Hunting versus The Departed.

00:28:51.355 --> 00:28:52.595
<v SPEAKER_4>Departed.

00:28:52.595 --> 00:28:54.635
<v SPEAKER_3>The Verdict versus Departed.

00:28:54.635 --> 00:28:56.015
<v SPEAKER_4>Tie.

00:28:56.015 --> 00:28:56.595
<v SPEAKER_3>Interesting, yeah.

00:28:56.595 --> 00:28:59.675
<v SPEAKER_3>I would take Verdict over Departed for me.

00:28:59.675 --> 00:29:01.655
<v SPEAKER_3>But that was a good rank.

00:29:01.655 --> 00:29:08.295
<v SPEAKER_3>See, for somebody who says they don't like ranking, you've become one of the top, top rankers in the US.

00:29:08.295 --> 00:29:08.815
<v SPEAKER_3>Rank.

00:29:09.595 --> 00:29:12.275
<v SPEAKER_2>You're the most ranked person.

00:29:12.315 --> 00:29:14.955
<v SPEAKER_3>No, no, you're ranked as one of the top rankers.

00:29:14.955 --> 00:29:17.175
<v SPEAKER_3>You're ranked as one of the top rankers.

00:29:17.175 --> 00:29:17.995
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:29:17.995 --> 00:29:19.275
<v SPEAKER_4>You're a canker.

00:29:20.355 --> 00:29:24.275
<v SPEAKER_3>One of the big issues with Boston set movies is-

00:29:24.275 --> 00:29:25.035
<v SPEAKER_4>Let me guess.

00:29:25.035 --> 00:29:26.415
<v SPEAKER_3>The Boston accents.

00:29:26.415 --> 00:29:29.335
<v SPEAKER_2>The parking, the one-way streets.

00:29:29.335 --> 00:29:30.475
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, exactly.

00:29:30.475 --> 00:29:35.755
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no, the actor's feeling like they have to throw on a Boston accent.

00:29:35.755 --> 00:29:42.615
<v SPEAKER_3>Seth Meyers on a show did a fantastic bit where he did a trailer for a fictitious movie called Boston Accent.

00:29:42.615 --> 00:29:44.455
<v SPEAKER_3>I hope we can put it up, Anne Marie.

00:29:44.455 --> 00:29:46.875
<v SPEAKER_3>I hope you can run that one down.

00:29:46.875 --> 00:29:58.695
<v SPEAKER_7>In a town where loyalty is king, where the line between right and wrong is blurred, and justice is anything but blind, one thing reigns supreme.

00:29:58.695 --> 00:30:00.175
<v SPEAKER_1>You all know me.

00:30:00.175 --> 00:30:02.075
<v SPEAKER_1>I'm not just a cop.

00:30:02.075 --> 00:30:08.315
<v SPEAKER_1>I'm a father, I'm a son, and above all, I'm from Boston.

00:30:09.595 --> 00:30:11.995
<v SPEAKER_7>Boston Accent.

00:30:11.995 --> 00:30:20.415
<v SPEAKER_7>Critics are calling the film Boston Accent gritty, emotional, and the movie with the most Boston accents this year.

00:30:20.415 --> 00:30:27.675
<v SPEAKER_7>Vanity Fair calls Boston Accent a tour de force of dropped Rs and a brilliant showcase of the words wicked and pisser.

00:30:27.675 --> 00:30:39.355
<v SPEAKER_7>The New York Times says, As with all movies set in Boston, I spent less time paying attention to the plot and more time thinking, That accent is good or yikes, what's that guy doing?

00:30:39.355 --> 00:30:44.795
<v SPEAKER_7>I kept wondering if the director ever stepped in and asked, Where do you think your character is from?

00:30:44.795 --> 00:30:46.875
<v SPEAKER_1>I can meet you in an hour in Worcester.

00:30:46.875 --> 00:30:48.775
<v SPEAKER_1>How about Medford?

00:30:48.775 --> 00:30:50.755
<v SPEAKER_1>How about Dorchester?

00:30:50.755 --> 00:30:52.095
<v SPEAKER_1>How about Bloster?

00:30:53.415 --> 00:30:54.735
<v SPEAKER_1>How about taunting?

00:30:54.735 --> 00:30:56.115
<v SPEAKER_1>Ah, because it acts from taunting.

00:30:56.115 --> 00:30:57.335
<v SPEAKER_1>Wicked.

00:30:57.335 --> 00:30:58.375
<v SPEAKER_5>Wicked.

00:30:58.375 --> 00:31:03.775
<v SPEAKER_7>See the movie that is being hailed as chock-full of aerial shots of Fenway Park.

00:31:04.895 --> 00:31:12.355
<v SPEAKER_7>And Boston accent would not be complete without people talking about loyalty and Southie and all that other Boston stuff.

00:31:12.355 --> 00:31:17.835
<v SPEAKER_1>I mean, in, you know, Southie, loyalty is more important than a gun, you know.

00:31:17.875 --> 00:31:28.775
<v SPEAKER_1>Don't take my word for it, you know, just watch THE DEPARTED, THE TOWN, you know, BLACK MASK, MYSTIC RIVER.

00:31:29.915 --> 00:31:34.915
<v SPEAKER_7>Boston accent, probably a Ben Affleck film.

00:31:34.915 --> 00:31:38.895
<v SPEAKER_3>It plagues Boston set movies with actors laying on heavy Boston accents.

00:31:38.895 --> 00:31:49.375
<v SPEAKER_3>So what I'd next like you to do, Frank, now that you're on a roll of ranking, is rank the various Boston accents used by the actors in THE DEPARTED go.

00:31:49.375 --> 00:31:50.275
<v SPEAKER_4>I need some ticking.

00:31:50.275 --> 00:31:51.555
<v SPEAKER_4>I need some ticking.

00:31:51.555 --> 00:31:52.135
<v SPEAKER_3>I'll just give you some.

00:31:52.355 --> 00:31:53.215
<v SPEAKER_4>Ready?

00:31:53.215 --> 00:31:53.975
<v SPEAKER_4>Ready?

00:31:53.975 --> 00:31:56.295
<v SPEAKER_4>Wahlberg won because he's from Boston.

00:31:56.295 --> 00:31:56.915
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:31:56.915 --> 00:31:57.635
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, it's interesting.

00:31:57.635 --> 00:31:59.675
<v SPEAKER_3>Wahlberg is from Boston.

00:31:59.675 --> 00:32:01.115
<v SPEAKER_4>And it's mild.

00:32:01.115 --> 00:32:03.375
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, it's not really mild.

00:32:03.375 --> 00:32:06.875
<v SPEAKER_3>He kind of, you know, since he moved to LA, his accent has faded.

00:32:07.415 --> 00:32:12.415
<v SPEAKER_3>He laid it back on, but obviously he's from Boston, so it's kind of rekindling his Boston accent.

00:32:12.515 --> 00:32:15.235
<v SPEAKER_3>But he was good with his Boston accent.

00:32:16.115 --> 00:32:17.935
<v SPEAKER_3>I'll just give you the characters, and you can respond.

00:32:17.935 --> 00:32:19.015
<v SPEAKER_3>Matt Damon.

00:32:19.015 --> 00:32:19.755
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:32:20.235 --> 00:32:20.995
<v SPEAKER_3>He's from Boston.

00:32:21.115 --> 00:32:21.935
<v SPEAKER_3>He's from Boston.

00:32:21.935 --> 00:32:23.435
<v SPEAKER_3>So it was natural for him.

00:32:23.435 --> 00:32:23.695
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:32:23.695 --> 00:32:25.375
<v SPEAKER_3>Here's where it gets a little tougher.

00:32:25.375 --> 00:32:26.275
<v SPEAKER_3>Leo.

00:32:26.275 --> 00:32:27.575
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought Leo was okay.

00:32:27.575 --> 00:32:31.555
<v SPEAKER_3>He was great because he's not from Boston.

00:32:31.555 --> 00:32:34.315
<v SPEAKER_3>And, you know, they all work with dialect coaches.

00:32:34.315 --> 00:32:38.015
<v SPEAKER_3>And I would think Leo probably had one of the best ones.

00:32:38.015 --> 00:32:39.195
<v SPEAKER_3>He felt Boston.

00:32:39.195 --> 00:32:45.155
<v SPEAKER_3>He felt like he could be in Boston, but it didn't, you know, it was not like an actor doing a Boston accent.

00:32:45.155 --> 00:32:47.395
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, there's a story element there too, isn't there?

00:32:47.395 --> 00:32:54.775
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, well, when he's being interviewed at the beginning, right, there's all the talk about, oh, on weekends, you were Southie.

00:32:54.775 --> 00:32:58.655
<v SPEAKER_4>And the rest of the time, you were like a suburb, which I didn't really catch.

00:32:58.655 --> 00:33:04.095
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, his parents, you know, there had been some separations with his parents.

00:33:04.095 --> 00:33:09.095
<v SPEAKER_3>And he lived with his mother, who I guess got remarried, who lived on the North Shore, Hody-Torrey.

00:33:09.095 --> 00:33:12.835
<v SPEAKER_3>But he was with his father, who was a Southie guy.

00:33:12.875 --> 00:33:13.355
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:33:13.355 --> 00:33:14.635
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, so.

00:33:14.635 --> 00:33:18.195
<v SPEAKER_4>So I think even Mark Wahlberg even says, so you put it on and put it off.

00:33:18.195 --> 00:33:19.155
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, yes.

00:33:19.155 --> 00:33:28.615
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, which was interesting, you know, which also kind of would cover whatever, you know, some, yeah, but I thought he was, Leo was great, but that helped, you know, to have that cover.

00:33:28.615 --> 00:33:28.955
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:33:28.955 --> 00:33:30.535
<v SPEAKER_4>Plot cover, story cover, yeah.

00:33:30.535 --> 00:33:31.435
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:33:31.435 --> 00:33:34.535
<v SPEAKER_3>Nicholson.

00:33:34.535 --> 00:33:35.255
<v SPEAKER_4>Jack is Jack.

00:33:35.835 --> 00:33:38.775
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, no, and that, no, and that, He was all right.

00:33:38.775 --> 00:33:45.475
<v SPEAKER_3>No, but it's, he did not try to dupe, and it's just like Paul Newman in The Verdict.

00:33:45.475 --> 00:34:03.835
<v SPEAKER_3>He didn't, for some reason, if you're, you know, if you feel like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I gotta try hard, I gotta win an Academy Award, you do the fucking Boston accent, but when you're Jack or Newman, you're like, okay, I'm a guy, you know, you don't feel like you have to lay it on, which brings us to one Vera, say her last name, please.

00:34:04.235 --> 00:34:05.115
<v SPEAKER_4>Farmiga.

00:34:05.115 --> 00:34:06.695
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, Vera Farmiga.

00:34:06.695 --> 00:34:08.635
<v SPEAKER_3>What did you think of her accent?

00:34:08.635 --> 00:34:09.335
<v SPEAKER_4>Mild.

00:34:09.335 --> 00:34:10.575
<v SPEAKER_4>You didn't like it?

00:34:10.575 --> 00:34:12.755
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I thought it was too overt.

00:34:12.755 --> 00:34:18.755
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it was too obvious that he, she felt like a Ukrainian woman doing a Boston accent.

00:34:18.755 --> 00:34:19.055
<v SPEAKER_3>No.

00:34:19.055 --> 00:34:19.915
<v SPEAKER_4>Which is what she was.

00:34:19.915 --> 00:34:21.195
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I'm just kidding.

00:34:21.195 --> 00:34:27.195
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I felt her is working, which is the bad thing with Boston accents.

00:34:27.195 --> 00:34:29.875
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, the truth is, not everybody from Boston talks that way.

00:34:29.875 --> 00:34:30.755
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:34:30.795 --> 00:34:31.515
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, I'm glad.

00:34:31.515 --> 00:34:32.835
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, the North Shore people.

00:34:32.835 --> 00:34:34.075
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, and you're right.

00:34:34.075 --> 00:34:36.395
<v SPEAKER_4>She should have not, she should not have.

00:34:36.395 --> 00:34:38.095
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that was Marty's choice though.

00:34:38.095 --> 00:34:40.735
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, Marty went with it, you know, and right.

00:34:40.735 --> 00:34:41.675
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, did.

00:34:41.675 --> 00:34:46.355
<v SPEAKER_4>But Baldwin was not, you could tell Baldwin was a New Yorker probably.

00:34:46.355 --> 00:34:46.615
<v SPEAKER_4>He didn't.

00:34:46.615 --> 00:34:46.915
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:34:46.915 --> 00:34:47.635
<v SPEAKER_4>Boston it up.

00:34:47.635 --> 00:34:49.015
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, he was FBI.

00:34:49.175 --> 00:34:57.735
<v SPEAKER_3>He did a little bit, but Boston and New York, you know, that kind of Long Island accent he has, wherever he's from, kind of is a little bit like Boston.

00:34:57.735 --> 00:35:05.235
<v SPEAKER_3>But you brought up an excellent point, which is, as I said in a previous podcast, I went to college in Massachusetts.

00:35:06.695 --> 00:35:10.955
<v SPEAKER_3>And so went to a lot of, you know, day trips to Boston.

00:35:12.115 --> 00:35:14.515
<v SPEAKER_3>And I was from New Jersey.

00:35:14.515 --> 00:35:18.435
<v SPEAKER_3>I didn't, you know, it wasn't like I was saying, oh, listen to these accents.

00:35:18.435 --> 00:35:21.695
<v SPEAKER_3>Again, it didn't really seem like a big deal to me.

00:35:21.755 --> 00:35:27.995
<v SPEAKER_3>And I know you can parody Boston accents with Caw and Departed and stuff like that.

00:35:27.995 --> 00:35:37.335
<v SPEAKER_3>But I really didn't notice it as much in real life as people seem to think you've got to do it if you're acting in a Boston movie.

00:35:37.335 --> 00:35:39.295
<v SPEAKER_4>Particularly if you're a Southie, you know.

00:35:39.295 --> 00:35:43.975
<v SPEAKER_4>I always had the feeling that it was more like on the coast also.

00:35:43.975 --> 00:35:47.175
<v SPEAKER_4>It was something that, on Cape Cod, you know, more of the fishing.

00:35:48.895 --> 00:35:54.915
<v SPEAKER_4>And sometimes I want to hear Irish fellows and some women off the boat, so to speak.

00:35:54.915 --> 00:35:59.835
<v SPEAKER_4>I hear a little bit of that coming out of the Irish, the ah, you know, and all that.

00:35:59.835 --> 00:36:01.915
<v SPEAKER_4>But anyhow, yeah.

00:36:01.915 --> 00:36:04.195
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, yes.

00:36:04.195 --> 00:36:11.555
<v SPEAKER_3>So The Departed is part of a subgenre, the undercover cop subgenre.

00:36:13.775 --> 00:36:21.135
<v SPEAKER_3>Your thoughts about that subgenre FT, and I'm not going to ask you to rank it, because you're probably exhausted today from so much work.

00:36:21.135 --> 00:36:25.015
<v SPEAKER_4>Actually, I sharpened my, it was flinched down for, I'm ready to rank everything.

00:36:25.015 --> 00:36:31.475
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm ready to rank what I'm even going to say, as be among the top five things I'm going to say in the next five minutes.

00:36:32.735 --> 00:36:36.415
<v SPEAKER_4>The, they make me anxious, usually.

00:36:36.415 --> 00:36:42.055
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think that's, sorry, I didn't mean to jump on you, but you hit the nail on the head, as you often do.

00:36:42.095 --> 00:36:43.995
<v SPEAKER_4>I was thinking about this.

00:36:43.995 --> 00:36:54.175
<v SPEAKER_4>As you know, too much to your dismay, I don't think suspense, old Alfred Hitchcock, old Al, I don't think suspense is the be-all and end-all of telling an interesting story.

00:36:54.515 --> 00:36:56.075
<v SPEAKER_4>I think it's interesting.

00:36:56.075 --> 00:37:03.775
<v SPEAKER_4>But this is all suspense, because the whole point is, as the audience already knows, the viewer already knows the key thing.

00:37:03.775 --> 00:37:16.335
<v SPEAKER_4>Now, what oddly with this film is, is that for some reason, having two people doubling it up, double plus, it sort of neutralized the anxiety for me.

00:37:16.335 --> 00:37:16.835
<v SPEAKER_3>Interesting.

00:37:16.835 --> 00:37:23.555
<v SPEAKER_4>It was odd that I was thinking about this, we were talking, I'm like, why wasn't I feeling super crazy?

00:37:25.235 --> 00:37:32.855
<v SPEAKER_4>But what was interesting about just the story in this particular case, it gets diluted with surprise or it gets added to surprise.

00:37:32.855 --> 00:37:33.275
<v SPEAKER_3>Sure.

00:37:33.275 --> 00:37:34.215
<v SPEAKER_4>Do you know what I mean by that?

00:37:34.215 --> 00:37:34.775
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:37:34.775 --> 00:37:35.015
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:37:35.015 --> 00:37:47.595
<v SPEAKER_4>Because there's a key point where Jack tells, what's his name, Matt Damon, it's revealed in the porn theater that there's another undercover person.

00:37:47.595 --> 00:37:48.175
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:37:48.175 --> 00:37:53.135
<v SPEAKER_4>So it's interesting that we know there's two and now we don't know.

00:37:53.135 --> 00:37:56.895
<v SPEAKER_4>Now we're in the shoes of Matt Damon, we don't know who the other undercover is.

00:37:57.555 --> 00:38:00.715
<v SPEAKER_4>So it sort of diluted all that anxiety for me a little bit.

00:38:00.715 --> 00:38:08.715
<v SPEAKER_4>Because you know me, I hate hostage films and I would say, undercover films like Serbico, I don't think I could watch it again.

00:38:08.715 --> 00:38:09.595
<v SPEAKER_3>Really?

00:38:09.595 --> 00:38:10.055
<v SPEAKER_4>I could.

00:38:10.355 --> 00:38:13.735
<v SPEAKER_4>I guess I could, but it would just to watch Young Ale.

00:38:14.715 --> 00:38:15.255
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:38:15.255 --> 00:38:15.775
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:38:15.775 --> 00:38:17.215
<v SPEAKER_4>So that's my take.

00:38:18.575 --> 00:38:34.495
<v SPEAKER_3>And it was a grand take that's what I wanted to get to is the under, it's such a ripe subgenre for tension and suspense.

00:38:34.495 --> 00:38:38.935
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's interesting, Sidney Lumet went to that well twice.

00:38:39.095 --> 00:38:43.035
<v SPEAKER_3>You named one film that was an undercover cop film Serbico.

00:38:43.035 --> 00:38:44.175
<v SPEAKER_3>What was Lumet's other?

00:38:44.175 --> 00:38:50.495
<v SPEAKER_3>And maybe he did more, but I know he did a second undercover cop film, name it FT.

00:38:50.495 --> 00:38:52.695
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know, he didn't do Prince of the City, did he?

00:38:52.695 --> 00:38:53.215
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, he did.

00:38:53.215 --> 00:38:53.935
<v SPEAKER_3>You got it.

00:38:53.935 --> 00:38:56.195
<v SPEAKER_3>Frank, you're on fire today, buddy.

00:38:57.275 --> 00:39:00.295
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, so Prince of the City, but interesting.

00:39:00.295 --> 00:39:02.935
<v SPEAKER_3>And I just had rewatched Prince of the City a couple months ago.

00:39:02.935 --> 00:39:04.135
<v SPEAKER_3>I'd been dying to see it.

00:39:04.135 --> 00:39:07.515
<v SPEAKER_3>I didn't love it, although I liked it.

00:39:07.515 --> 00:39:14.015
<v SPEAKER_3>But Lumet and I think I remember Serbico having a lot of suspense, but I haven't watched it in quite a while.

00:39:14.815 --> 00:39:16.555
<v SPEAKER_3>He went a different way with Prince of the City.

00:39:16.555 --> 00:39:21.315
<v SPEAKER_3>He did not use, I think it's all told from Treat William's point of view pretty much.

00:39:21.315 --> 00:39:27.575
<v SPEAKER_3>So he didn't dial up the suspense, even though the situations are full of suspense naturally.

00:39:27.575 --> 00:39:32.775
<v SPEAKER_3>It became more of a character study about Treat William's character, which was-

00:39:32.775 --> 00:39:34.135
<v SPEAKER_4>And the gang, right?

00:39:34.135 --> 00:39:35.695
<v SPEAKER_4>His original, yeah.

00:39:35.695 --> 00:39:36.015
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:39:36.015 --> 00:39:48.795
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you were the one that mentioned Prince of the City, those many months ago, and that's what occurred to me, you know, when you came up with this sub-genre, you know, talking about the parallels with Serpico, and the differences.

00:39:48.795 --> 00:39:49.255
<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't-

00:39:49.375 --> 00:39:51.155
<v SPEAKER_4>I forgot it was both Sidney Lamatt.

00:39:51.155 --> 00:39:51.875
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:39:51.875 --> 00:39:52.315
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:39:52.435 --> 00:39:54.455
<v SPEAKER_3>I've been wanting to watch Serpico again.

00:39:54.455 --> 00:39:56.135
<v SPEAKER_3>But there's this suspense.

00:39:56.135 --> 00:40:06.115
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, FT, I know you've had a lot of varied career before finding what you were always meant to be, which was a podcaster.

00:40:08.715 --> 00:40:13.955
<v SPEAKER_3>Would you have ever been an undercover cop?

00:40:13.955 --> 00:40:19.635
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, see, the answer is an undercover person in the podcast is not to answer that.

00:40:19.635 --> 00:40:20.355
<v SPEAKER_3>I understand that.

00:40:20.355 --> 00:40:20.955
<v SPEAKER_3>But would you-

00:40:21.035 --> 00:40:21.915
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:40:21.915 --> 00:40:22.535
<v SPEAKER_3>Why?

00:40:22.535 --> 00:40:23.455
<v SPEAKER_3>Why?

00:40:23.455 --> 00:40:25.855
<v SPEAKER_4>Just the anxiety, the tension of being caught.

00:40:25.855 --> 00:40:27.775
<v SPEAKER_4>It takes a special-

00:40:27.775 --> 00:40:40.195
<v SPEAKER_4>On the other hand, whenever you're in a situation where you're holding what you really feel, we've all been in that, work situations, particularly, where you're in family, emotional situations.

00:40:40.195 --> 00:40:41.115
<v SPEAKER_4>Podcast situations.

00:40:41.115 --> 00:40:41.855
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, exactly.

00:40:41.855 --> 00:40:49.855
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, there's things that you sometimes want to say and you can't say it, so that gives you a touch of being undercover.

00:40:49.855 --> 00:40:58.715
<v SPEAKER_4>But it's deception and it's dishonesty and lying, which brings us to one of the points of this whole film.

00:40:58.715 --> 00:40:59.575
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:41:00.315 --> 00:41:15.195
<v SPEAKER_3>But there's that, which has its issues, but then there's the constant tension that if you say the wrong thing, or even if you don't say the wrong thing, even if somebody inside the department gives up the information, you're fucking dead.

00:41:15.195 --> 00:41:25.535
<v SPEAKER_3>And if you're dead, you're dealing with people who murder and do those kinds of things and will murder you to save their ass.

00:41:25.535 --> 00:41:26.575
<v SPEAKER_4>And the rest of their bodies.

00:41:26.575 --> 00:41:27.555
<v SPEAKER_3>The real life tension.

00:41:27.735 --> 00:41:56.475
<v SPEAKER_3>And yeah, in researching my novels, you know, got to know a lot of cops and corrections officers and stuff, but for obvious reasons didn't get to sit down with undercover agents, but I'd read, there's a couple, I think Mark, the guy who wrote the book of Black Hawk Down, if I'm not mixing him up, wrote an excellent book about an undercover agent.

00:41:56.475 --> 00:42:03.875
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's just, it's, when you read about it, it is just so nerve-racking and hard to imagine who would, who would do this.

00:42:03.875 --> 00:42:13.635
<v SPEAKER_3>And of course, what's great about this screenplay, the idea that you're so far undercover that only, and that they've destroyed your identity.

00:42:13.635 --> 00:42:20.875
<v SPEAKER_3>And so the only way you can be proved that you're actually a cop and were undercover is these two, these ways with these two guys.

00:42:21.315 --> 00:42:31.475
<v SPEAKER_3>And if somebody deletes your record as, as Matt Damon's character does in the movie, there's no way, there's no way out of this undercover hole.

00:42:31.475 --> 00:42:33.475
<v SPEAKER_4>It's, it's, it's, yeah, yeah, you're right.

00:42:33.475 --> 00:42:34.555
<v SPEAKER_4>There's no way out of it.

00:42:34.555 --> 00:42:37.155
<v SPEAKER_4>You know what's interesting about that, though?

00:42:37.155 --> 00:42:42.695
<v SPEAKER_4>Mark Wahlberg hints at that, prophesizes that early on.

00:42:42.695 --> 00:42:43.475
<v SPEAKER_4>Did you catch that?

00:42:43.475 --> 00:42:43.975
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:42:43.975 --> 00:42:45.155
<v SPEAKER_4>When, yeah, yeah.

00:42:45.155 --> 00:42:49.115
<v SPEAKER_4>When Leo was having doubts and he's there with Martin Sheen.

00:42:49.115 --> 00:42:52.275
<v SPEAKER_4>And he goes, look at, you know, the only thing between us, we could just wipe your way.

00:42:52.275 --> 00:42:54.335
<v SPEAKER_4>You can wipe your identity away.

00:42:54.335 --> 00:43:00.255
<v SPEAKER_4>And all you'd be doing is going to jail for like 15 murders and whatever, you know, which I found to be interesting.

00:43:00.255 --> 00:43:02.535
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, I was like, wow, isn't that because I forgot.

00:43:02.535 --> 00:43:04.095
<v SPEAKER_4>I go, isn't that what happens?

00:43:04.115 --> 00:43:04.495
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:43:04.495 --> 00:43:06.475
<v SPEAKER_4>And then I was like, then the movie moves on.

00:43:06.475 --> 00:43:07.755
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:43:07.755 --> 00:43:08.255
<v SPEAKER_4>But you know what?

00:43:08.255 --> 00:43:11.455
<v SPEAKER_4>There has to be, you know, obviously, there's some people are real thrill seekers.

00:43:11.455 --> 00:43:15.335
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, the trivial example is some people love roller coasters.

00:43:15.335 --> 00:43:16.175
<v SPEAKER_4>I can't stand them.

00:43:16.175 --> 00:43:18.535
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, I mean, and it just the thought freaks me out.

00:43:18.535 --> 00:43:22.175
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, I think some people really get off on it.

00:43:22.515 --> 00:43:27.175
<v SPEAKER_3>I only like roller coasters if I've eaten something that doesn't agree with me.

00:43:27.175 --> 00:43:27.615
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:43:27.615 --> 00:43:29.195
<v SPEAKER_3>I need to get it out of my system.

00:43:29.235 --> 00:43:35.075
<v SPEAKER_4>A couple of Nathan's chili dogs, three of them, and a corn dog on top of it.

00:43:35.075 --> 00:43:47.875
<v SPEAKER_3>Actually, that brings up a good idea because I think, you know, the Nathan's hot dog eating contents has become bigger and bigger as it, you know, now it's, it's covered by ESPN now and they paid a lot.

00:43:47.875 --> 00:43:49.495
<v SPEAKER_3>So it gets a lot of viewership.

00:43:49.495 --> 00:43:51.895
<v SPEAKER_3>But I think FT, you're a genius.

00:43:51.895 --> 00:44:04.835
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it would be so much better if it's, if it's actually more of a biathlon kind of thing where it's hot dog eating contest and then onto the roller coaster and see who doesn't throw, if you throw up, then you lose.

00:44:04.835 --> 00:44:05.175
<v SPEAKER_2>True.

00:44:05.175 --> 00:44:15.495
<v SPEAKER_4>But even the best, the coupe de grace, it would be, you put a platter of hot dogs on each car of the roller coaster and they eat them while the roller coaster is going.

00:44:15.495 --> 00:44:22.775
<v SPEAKER_4>And so A, if you throw up, you're disqualified and B, whoever eats them all, then you keep going to somebody's throw.

00:44:22.775 --> 00:44:24.835
<v SPEAKER_2>If it's a tie, you just keep going to somebody.

00:44:25.375 --> 00:44:29.675
<v SPEAKER_3>You forgot the officials throwing the flags if you drop a hot dog.

00:44:33.135 --> 00:44:35.295
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you think of the script of The Departed?

00:44:35.295 --> 00:44:36.675
<v SPEAKER_4>It's a great script.

00:44:38.575 --> 00:44:48.215
<v SPEAKER_4>And with any film period, you've got to figure out or you've got to distinguish between what is the script and what did Marty do.

00:44:48.215 --> 00:44:50.855
<v SPEAKER_3>Actually, you can break it down from a metaphysical basis.

00:44:50.855 --> 00:44:53.455
<v SPEAKER_3>You can really break it down to what is the script.

00:44:53.455 --> 00:44:54.275
<v SPEAKER_4>And what is life.

00:44:54.275 --> 00:44:55.935
<v SPEAKER_3>What is not the script.

00:44:58.315 --> 00:44:59.055
<v SPEAKER_3>Keep going.

00:44:59.055 --> 00:44:59.735
<v SPEAKER_3>Keep going, FT.

00:44:59.735 --> 00:45:00.655
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry.

00:45:00.655 --> 00:45:01.855
<v SPEAKER_4>That's, I don't know.

00:45:01.855 --> 00:45:03.255
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, you have something more to say.

00:45:03.255 --> 00:45:05.315
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, say what you got.

00:45:05.715 --> 00:45:09.255
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I just, I feel bad because some of the audience now is-

00:45:09.255 --> 00:45:09.835
<v SPEAKER_4>They're leaving.

00:45:09.875 --> 00:45:18.155
<v SPEAKER_3>The audience feels like every time you're about to say something completely brilliant, I interrupt you with a joke.

00:45:18.335 --> 00:45:26.815
<v SPEAKER_3>And they feel like that in terms of people's ranking your brilliance level, it's hurting your ranking on the brilliance scale.

00:45:27.055 --> 00:45:31.935
<v SPEAKER_3>I think the script is a fantastic script on a couple of levels.

00:45:32.295 --> 00:45:39.015
<v SPEAKER_3>The first one is, it is, I think you'd have to agree with me, it's a very complex tale.

00:45:39.015 --> 00:45:39.395
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:45:39.395 --> 00:45:42.415
<v SPEAKER_3>It's a complex yarn, as we say in the business.

00:45:42.415 --> 00:45:43.235
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:45:43.235 --> 00:45:52.635
<v SPEAKER_3>Yet, yet it's structured in a way where even after the first time seeing it, you know, and then feel like, oh, what was-

00:45:53.115 --> 00:45:57.615
<v SPEAKER_3>I feel like you get everything, every loop is closed, everything's set up, everything.

00:45:57.855 --> 00:45:59.315
<v SPEAKER_3>It's clear as a bell.

00:45:59.315 --> 00:46:00.215
<v SPEAKER_3>Would you agree with that?

00:46:00.715 --> 00:46:01.235
<v SPEAKER_4>I do.

00:46:01.235 --> 00:46:01.815
<v SPEAKER_4>I do.

00:46:01.815 --> 00:46:02.235
<v SPEAKER_4>You're right.

00:46:02.235 --> 00:46:07.275
<v SPEAKER_4>Considering the plot difficulties, yes, you're not, I was not confused.

00:46:07.335 --> 00:46:08.675
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, which is no small feat.

00:46:08.675 --> 00:46:16.055
<v SPEAKER_3>And again, credit to the director, to Martin Scorsese and the editor, Thelma Schoonmaker.

00:46:16.055 --> 00:46:16.875
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:46:16.875 --> 00:46:26.175
<v SPEAKER_3>But I happen to be on Google and I'm going to tell you, Oh, so at least I printed it out.

00:46:26.175 --> 00:46:28.175
<v SPEAKER_3>So I'm going to tell it like it is.

00:46:28.175 --> 00:46:32.315
<v SPEAKER_3>My, when I was Googling, okay, here's what's in the search field on Google.

00:46:32.315 --> 00:46:33.275
<v SPEAKER_3>I printed out the page.

00:46:33.275 --> 00:46:38.075
<v SPEAKER_3>I was, I Googled the departed James Joyce, not a bad thing.

00:46:38.095 --> 00:46:38.695
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:46:38.695 --> 00:46:38.975
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:46:38.975 --> 00:46:43.755
<v SPEAKER_3>But, but, but then I got the, people also asked thing on Google.

00:46:43.755 --> 00:46:44.375
<v SPEAKER_4>I love that.

00:46:44.375 --> 00:46:45.115
<v SPEAKER_3>You're familiar with that?

00:46:45.115 --> 00:46:45.695
<v SPEAKER_3>Of course.

00:46:45.695 --> 00:46:47.055
<v SPEAKER_3>Where people also asked.

00:46:47.055 --> 00:46:48.215
<v SPEAKER_3>So again, that's what I Googled.

00:46:48.215 --> 00:46:52.215
<v SPEAKER_3>And again, what we're talking about is, I said this script is clear as a bell.

00:46:52.355 --> 00:46:54.475
<v SPEAKER_3>You can't watch, you get it all.

00:46:54.475 --> 00:47:00.795
<v SPEAKER_3>Yet people, who, people also ask, who was the mole in The Departed?

00:47:02.015 --> 00:47:03.575
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not kidding.

00:47:03.575 --> 00:47:05.135
<v SPEAKER_4>Maybe they thought it was an animal.

00:47:05.135 --> 00:47:09.135
<v SPEAKER_2>I mean, you know, who was the rabbit in Rabbit Run?

00:47:09.135 --> 00:47:12.055
<v SPEAKER_3>So people ask, also ask, who is the mole in The Departed?

00:47:12.055 --> 00:47:16.115
<v SPEAKER_3>They also ask, who was the little boy in the beginning of The Departed?

00:47:20.135 --> 00:47:21.555
<v SPEAKER_4>Steven Deadless.

00:47:21.555 --> 00:47:25.435
<v SPEAKER_3>People also ask, who was the guy at the end of The Departed?

00:47:25.435 --> 00:47:25.975
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not kidding.

00:47:25.975 --> 00:47:26.775
<v SPEAKER_4>Holy shit.

00:47:26.775 --> 00:47:27.695
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, I mean, this...

00:47:27.915 --> 00:47:28.715
<v SPEAKER_4>Jesus.

00:47:28.715 --> 00:47:34.615
<v SPEAKER_3>And you wonder why, you know, you watch a lot, you see the movies the studios put out and you say, why do they make such dumb movies?

00:47:34.615 --> 00:47:36.935
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, they ask Google.

00:47:36.935 --> 00:47:43.455
<v SPEAKER_3>They probably have departments who, or actually they make the films, then run it through Google and say, well, people didn't know who the mole was.

00:47:43.455 --> 00:47:44.595
<v SPEAKER_3>People didn't know who the mole was.

00:47:44.595 --> 00:47:45.975
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, it's just incredible.

00:47:45.975 --> 00:47:46.895
<v SPEAKER_4>That is incredible.

00:47:47.435 --> 00:47:50.895
<v SPEAKER_3>So he told a complex story and made it crystal clear.

00:47:52.215 --> 00:48:00.015
<v SPEAKER_3>I think he also, you already talked about it, he used suspense with letting the audience get ahead of things.

00:48:00.015 --> 00:48:02.315
<v SPEAKER_3>He uses surprise.

00:48:02.315 --> 00:48:04.235
<v SPEAKER_3>The structure is great.

00:48:05.855 --> 00:48:07.775
<v SPEAKER_3>The dialogue is fantastic.

00:48:07.775 --> 00:48:13.995
<v SPEAKER_3>It was interesting because we're about to get to the part of the podcast where we each pick our favorite film from the movie.

00:48:13.995 --> 00:48:15.175
<v SPEAKER_5>I'm sorry.

00:48:15.835 --> 00:48:18.915
<v SPEAKER_3>We each pick our favorite line from the movie.

00:48:18.915 --> 00:48:22.035
<v SPEAKER_3>What's interesting was I thought, man, this is going to be tough.

00:48:22.035 --> 00:48:24.275
<v SPEAKER_3>There's going to be so many great lines.

00:48:24.275 --> 00:48:25.595
<v SPEAKER_3>It's interesting.

00:48:25.595 --> 00:48:31.255
<v SPEAKER_3>There's so much great dialogue, but there aren't these jump out lines, which I think is what makes a great piece.

00:48:31.255 --> 00:48:37.395
<v SPEAKER_3>I feel like screenplays when there's these incredible one-liners, they're fake.

00:48:37.395 --> 00:48:40.955
<v SPEAKER_3>Just like the Boston Accents, you feel the screenwriter laboring.

00:48:41.015 --> 00:48:46.235
<v SPEAKER_3>Whereas this, there's so much great dialogue, but not necessarily these great lines.

00:48:46.235 --> 00:48:47.895
<v SPEAKER_3>But nevertheless.

00:48:47.895 --> 00:48:48.715
<v SPEAKER_4>The Henny Youngmans.

00:48:48.715 --> 00:48:49.715
<v SPEAKER_4>Nevertheless, yes.

00:48:49.715 --> 00:48:55.155
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the part of our podcast where we each name our favorite line from the film.

00:48:55.155 --> 00:48:57.615
<v SPEAKER_3>So I'm going to ask you to go first, Frank.

00:48:57.615 --> 00:49:00.015
<v SPEAKER_3>What was your favorite line from The Departed?

00:49:00.015 --> 00:49:01.355
<v SPEAKER_3>And sorry, I'm moving papers.

00:49:01.355 --> 00:49:02.295
<v SPEAKER_3>I pull out my favorite line.

00:49:02.295 --> 00:49:02.775
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, me too.

00:49:02.775 --> 00:49:04.275
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm moving around here.

00:49:04.275 --> 00:49:05.735
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm going below.

00:49:05.735 --> 00:49:10.355
<v SPEAKER_4>My favorite line, since we already hinted at one, I'm going to pass that one about the mushrooms.

00:49:10.655 --> 00:49:24.835
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm going to say what got me laughing was when Matt Damon early on says to the other cop who was in the same class, do you have a suit at home or do you like coming to work dressed like somebody ready to invade Poland?

00:49:24.835 --> 00:49:27.015
<v SPEAKER_4>Because he had the strap.

00:49:27.015 --> 00:49:28.035
<v SPEAKER_4>It's like this.

00:49:28.035 --> 00:49:35.315
<v SPEAKER_4>My father used to call the Pennsylvania State Police the Gestapo because of that strap and the belt.

00:49:35.395 --> 00:49:36.295
<v SPEAKER_4>And it was.

00:49:36.295 --> 00:49:38.195
<v SPEAKER_4>It was weird.

00:49:38.195 --> 00:49:41.575
<v SPEAKER_4>Especially the darker suits when they changed into the lighter suits.

00:49:41.575 --> 00:49:43.535
<v SPEAKER_4>But it always struck with me.

00:49:43.535 --> 00:49:46.395
<v SPEAKER_4>And when I saw that, I laughed and laughed.

00:49:47.435 --> 00:49:48.095
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:49:48.095 --> 00:49:51.375
<v SPEAKER_4>Anyhow, somebody ready to invade Poland.

00:49:51.795 --> 00:49:54.875
<v SPEAKER_3>I've never said this to you before, and I don't want it to go to your head.

00:49:54.875 --> 00:49:58.615
<v SPEAKER_3>But I love doing this podcast with you, FT.

00:49:58.855 --> 00:50:00.515
<v SPEAKER_4>I always pick the worst lines.

00:50:01.575 --> 00:50:02.435
<v SPEAKER_3>We do best lines.

00:50:02.435 --> 00:50:04.075
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm like, oh, man, I picked this one.

00:50:04.155 --> 00:50:06.435
<v SPEAKER_3>But FT is going to pick it first.

00:50:06.435 --> 00:50:07.175
<v SPEAKER_3>And you never do.

00:50:07.175 --> 00:50:17.295
<v SPEAKER_3>OK, so that leaves it wide open for the classic from Frank Costello as played by Jack Nicholson.

00:50:17.295 --> 00:50:20.295
<v SPEAKER_3>When you decide to be something, you can be it.

00:50:20.295 --> 00:50:22.715
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what they don't tell you in the church.

00:50:22.715 --> 00:50:26.515
<v SPEAKER_3>When I was your age, they would say we can become cops or criminals.

00:50:26.515 --> 00:50:29.335
<v SPEAKER_3>Today, what I'm saying to you is this.

00:50:29.335 --> 00:50:32.255
<v SPEAKER_3>When you're facing a loaded gun, what's the difference?

00:50:32.935 --> 00:50:34.575
<v SPEAKER_4>There you go.

00:50:34.575 --> 00:50:35.415
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:50:35.415 --> 00:50:37.695
<v SPEAKER_3>I have a question for you, if I may.

00:50:37.695 --> 00:50:38.895
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm ready.

00:50:40.375 --> 00:50:51.755
<v SPEAKER_3>So, in the movie, obviously, Matt Damon gets into a romance with a Vera Farmiga character.

00:50:53.375 --> 00:51:02.595
<v SPEAKER_3>And it is communicated subtextually, or actually textually, that he is impotent.

00:51:02.595 --> 00:51:22.015
<v SPEAKER_3>And then Billy Costigan, who's Vera Farmiga's patient, gets into a romance with Vera Farmiga, which brings us to what the geometrists call a love triangle.

00:51:23.475 --> 00:51:26.135
<v SPEAKER_2>The love geometrists call a triangle.

00:51:26.515 --> 00:51:27.215
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:51:27.215 --> 00:51:44.855
<v SPEAKER_3>My question for you is, is the romance between, which is convenient, this love triangle, which adds to the tension of the whole thing and to the symmetry and the structure, is it believable that Vera Farmiga falls for the Leo character?

00:51:44.855 --> 00:51:45.915
<v SPEAKER_4>I think it's motivated.

00:51:45.915 --> 00:51:53.515
<v SPEAKER_3>My question for you, sorry, is it only motivated by the fact that he happens to have a working dick and Matt Damon doesn't?

00:51:53.515 --> 00:51:58.115
<v SPEAKER_3>Otherwise, I don't know why she really sleeps with him.

00:51:58.115 --> 00:51:59.115
<v SPEAKER_4>Interesting.

00:51:59.115 --> 00:52:00.855
<v SPEAKER_4>My question would be the opposite.

00:52:01.235 --> 00:52:04.635
<v SPEAKER_4>Was it motivated that she would ever be with Matt Damon?

00:52:04.635 --> 00:52:06.435
<v SPEAKER_3>Ah, that's a good one, FT, right?

00:52:06.435 --> 00:52:11.535
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, because compare the two first meetings.

00:52:11.535 --> 00:52:17.755
<v SPEAKER_4>One was all that witty banter of Matt Damon, and his character is revealed as a slick guy.

00:52:17.755 --> 00:52:19.375
<v SPEAKER_5>You're making a house call?

00:52:20.715 --> 00:52:22.815
<v SPEAKER_6>Have I seen you professionally?

00:52:22.815 --> 00:52:23.855
<v SPEAKER_5>No, no.

00:52:24.035 --> 00:52:26.675
<v SPEAKER_5>I know who you are, though.

00:52:26.675 --> 00:52:34.055
<v SPEAKER_5>Guys gotta use their service revolver in the course of duty, and then they get to come to talk to you about their feelings and what not.

00:52:34.055 --> 00:52:36.195
<v SPEAKER_5>No, no, I know how it goes.

00:52:36.195 --> 00:52:38.175
<v SPEAKER_5>You're a mental health professional?

00:52:38.175 --> 00:52:39.855
<v SPEAKER_6>Yeah, I have an appointment on this floor.

00:52:40.015 --> 00:52:40.835
<v SPEAKER_5>Well, you'll have fun.

00:52:40.835 --> 00:52:42.255
<v SPEAKER_5>They're all freaking crazy on that floor.

00:52:43.655 --> 00:52:44.355
<v SPEAKER_5>I'm one more up.

00:52:44.355 --> 00:52:45.875
<v SPEAKER_6>Oh, fancy policeman.

00:52:45.875 --> 00:52:47.235
<v SPEAKER_5>Yeah, that's right, fancy.

00:52:47.235 --> 00:52:48.195
<v SPEAKER_6>Are you a stadium?

00:52:48.195 --> 00:52:48.775
<v SPEAKER_5>Yeah, I am.

00:52:49.055 --> 00:52:51.595
<v SPEAKER_5>I'm actually going to law school also.

00:52:51.595 --> 00:52:53.155
<v SPEAKER_6>Suffolk nights?

00:52:53.155 --> 00:52:55.155
<v SPEAKER_5>Well, yeah, they don't run harbored at night.

00:52:55.715 --> 00:52:57.755
<v SPEAKER_6>When was the last time you checked?

00:52:57.755 --> 00:52:59.955
<v SPEAKER_5>Before I went to fucking Suffolk.

00:52:59.955 --> 00:53:01.515
<v SPEAKER_6>Okay, listen, I went to UMass.

00:53:01.655 --> 00:53:02.735
<v SPEAKER_6>I wasn't insulting you.

00:53:02.735 --> 00:53:05.195
<v SPEAKER_5>Well, I thought you were, so now you gotta buy me dinner.

00:53:05.195 --> 00:53:07.695
<v SPEAKER_6>Maybe you can shoot someone, and then you have to see me professionally.

00:53:08.515 --> 00:53:12.095
<v SPEAKER_5>I'll stab someone in the heart with a fucking ice pick if it gets me dinner with you.

00:53:13.275 --> 00:53:13.995
<v SPEAKER_5>No, no, it's all right.

00:53:13.995 --> 00:53:14.555
<v SPEAKER_5>I'm a detective.

00:53:14.555 --> 00:53:15.295
<v SPEAKER_5>I'll find it.

00:53:15.295 --> 00:53:16.215
<v SPEAKER_5>No, sir, just joking.

00:53:16.215 --> 00:53:17.015
<v SPEAKER_5>I need the cut.

00:53:17.015 --> 00:53:17.855
<v SPEAKER_4>Funny stuff, too.

00:53:18.015 --> 00:53:20.415
<v SPEAKER_4>I'll shoot somebody if I have to see you the next time.

00:53:20.415 --> 00:53:24.815
<v SPEAKER_4>But compare the first meeting with Leo.

00:53:24.815 --> 00:53:27.395
<v SPEAKER_4>Stuff about honesty and lying comes up.

00:53:27.395 --> 00:53:27.975
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:53:27.975 --> 00:53:29.675
<v SPEAKER_7>Do you lie?

00:53:29.675 --> 00:53:31.055
<v SPEAKER_6>Why?

00:53:31.055 --> 00:53:31.875
<v SPEAKER_6>Do you?

00:53:31.875 --> 00:53:33.795
<v SPEAKER_7>No, I'm asking if you lie.

00:53:35.055 --> 00:53:37.055
<v SPEAKER_6>Honesty is not synonymous with truth.

00:53:37.715 --> 00:53:39.975
<v SPEAKER_7>Yeah, you lie.

00:53:39.975 --> 00:53:41.375
<v SPEAKER_7>You lie.

00:53:41.375 --> 00:53:47.055
<v SPEAKER_2>Is it to do some good, to get somewhere personally, or what, just for the fuck of it?

00:53:47.055 --> 00:53:51.875
<v SPEAKER_6>I expect that some people do it to keep things on an even keel.

00:53:52.895 --> 00:53:55.235
<v SPEAKER_5>Wow.

00:53:55.235 --> 00:53:58.075
<v SPEAKER_6>So you had a parent who was a drunk.

00:53:58.075 --> 00:53:59.975
<v SPEAKER_6>Did you?

00:53:59.975 --> 00:54:01.955
<v SPEAKER_3>No.

00:54:01.955 --> 00:54:04.015
<v SPEAKER_6>Let's keep it with you.

00:54:04.015 --> 00:54:05.175
<v SPEAKER_6>Talk about how you feel.

00:54:08.415 --> 00:54:10.655
<v SPEAKER_7>How I feel.

00:54:10.655 --> 00:54:13.655
<v SPEAKER_4>So there's a sincerity about Leo that I completely believe.

00:54:13.655 --> 00:54:27.375
<v SPEAKER_4>And she, being torn, being a therapist, she has obviously fun feelings for, she likes the slick, nice penthouse, by the way, overlooking the Capitol and all that.

00:54:27.375 --> 00:54:32.775
<v SPEAKER_4>But she's drawn more, I think, emotionally to Leo.

00:54:32.775 --> 00:54:34.355
<v SPEAKER_4>He's more sincere, he's more vulnerable.

00:54:34.475 --> 00:54:35.775
<v SPEAKER_4>She says that.

00:54:35.795 --> 00:54:37.195
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:54:37.235 --> 00:54:38.515
<v SPEAKER_3>FT, let's move along.

00:54:38.515 --> 00:54:44.235
<v SPEAKER_3>Now that you're hopefully recharged for another ranking, I'd like, let's get into our favorite scenes.

00:54:44.235 --> 00:54:48.995
<v SPEAKER_3>We're each going to pick our favorite scene from The Departed.

00:54:48.995 --> 00:54:54.135
<v SPEAKER_3>And as always, I will ask you to go first.

00:54:54.135 --> 00:54:56.155
<v SPEAKER_3>What's your favorite scene from The Departed?

00:54:57.875 --> 00:54:58.935
<v SPEAKER_4>This is a hard one.

00:54:58.935 --> 00:55:00.035
<v SPEAKER_4>Favorite scene.

00:55:00.035 --> 00:55:01.935
<v SPEAKER_3>Quit your moaning.

00:55:01.935 --> 00:55:03.175
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I can moan if I want to.

00:55:03.295 --> 00:55:05.735
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't want no government or you telling me whether I can moan.

00:55:05.735 --> 00:55:06.355
<v SPEAKER_3>What's your favorite scene?

00:55:06.355 --> 00:55:07.775
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it's strange.

00:55:07.775 --> 00:55:09.215
<v SPEAKER_4>All right, because I really went back and forth.

00:55:09.215 --> 00:55:10.315
<v SPEAKER_4>There's a lot of them.

00:55:10.315 --> 00:55:16.015
<v SPEAKER_4>But what struck me was what I'm going to call the 314 watch street scene.

00:55:16.015 --> 00:55:17.655
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:55:17.655 --> 00:55:21.715
<v SPEAKER_4>And that it's my favorite because it puzzled me.

00:55:21.715 --> 00:55:23.395
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought it was a weak part of the script.

00:55:23.395 --> 00:55:27.615
<v SPEAKER_4>Why Matt Damon goes, I'm going to follow Martin Sheen, the captain, right?

00:55:27.615 --> 00:55:39.595
<v SPEAKER_4>But I'm watching this and I'm going, wait a second, Martin Sheen all along was saying, if you want to find who the spy is, follow Jack, follow Costello because they eventually have to meet.

00:55:39.595 --> 00:55:44.015
<v SPEAKER_4>So this is going on in my head about like, this is unbelievable.

00:55:44.015 --> 00:55:48.355
<v SPEAKER_4>Even the other cops that are following him going like, what the hell, what are we following the captain for?

00:55:48.355 --> 00:55:51.295
<v SPEAKER_4>But it ends up being the case that they will eventually meet up.

00:55:51.295 --> 00:55:53.475
<v SPEAKER_4>Anyhow, it's an incredible scene.

00:55:53.475 --> 00:55:56.715
<v SPEAKER_4>It's shocking for a couple of reasons.

00:55:56.815 --> 00:56:07.595
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, because, of course, then Matt Damon is able to alert the, you know, the gang, the mob, and they get there.

00:56:07.595 --> 00:56:10.835
<v SPEAKER_4>And it's the first case where you have a real shootout.

00:56:10.835 --> 00:56:17.775
<v SPEAKER_4>You also have a case where Matt Damon exposes himself when he goes, do not pursue and his guys disobey orders.

00:56:17.775 --> 00:56:20.275
<v SPEAKER_4>So things are starting to unravel here.

00:56:20.275 --> 00:56:27.475
<v SPEAKER_4>And of course, there's a hideous shock of Martin Sheen being thrown out of the building and landing with a splat right in front.

00:56:27.475 --> 00:56:35.935
<v SPEAKER_4>Now, why do I call this the 314 when obviously spray painted on the plywood was 344 Wash Street?

00:56:37.035 --> 00:56:45.015
<v SPEAKER_4>Because we then find out that Leo was purposely given the wrong address.

00:56:45.015 --> 00:56:47.775
<v SPEAKER_4>And why did he show up at 344?

00:56:47.775 --> 00:56:51.315
<v SPEAKER_4>So he got exposed as being the rat.

00:56:51.315 --> 00:56:53.535
<v SPEAKER_4>But it was from a dying man.

00:56:54.335 --> 00:56:56.075
<v SPEAKER_4>So everything is unraveling here.

00:56:56.075 --> 00:56:57.815
<v SPEAKER_4>And who would ever throw the cat?

00:56:57.815 --> 00:57:00.135
<v SPEAKER_4>That's like throwing Costello off a building.

00:57:00.135 --> 00:57:01.855
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:57:01.855 --> 00:57:02.115
<v SPEAKER_3>All right.

00:57:02.115 --> 00:57:03.695
<v SPEAKER_3>So you did your favorite scene.

00:57:03.695 --> 00:57:06.055
<v SPEAKER_3>So I guess it's time for my favorite scene.

00:57:06.055 --> 00:57:07.075
<v SPEAKER_4>Is it really?

00:57:07.075 --> 00:57:07.315
<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah.

00:57:07.315 --> 00:57:08.475
<v SPEAKER_3>It's already time for that.

00:57:08.475 --> 00:57:09.295
<v SPEAKER_2>It's already time?

00:57:09.295 --> 00:57:09.555
<v SPEAKER_2>All right.

00:57:09.555 --> 00:57:11.215
<v SPEAKER_3>Go ahead.

00:57:11.215 --> 00:57:12.815
<v SPEAKER_3>My favorite scene.

00:57:12.935 --> 00:57:34.235
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's tough to pick because again, being this film, just like when you look at the best line, you see that there's a lot of good lines, there's a lot of dialogue, but not this standout thing, which is great because it makes it play more realistic than taking it out of you and saying, wow, what a great script.

00:57:34.235 --> 00:57:39.195
<v SPEAKER_3>There's also just so many, every scene is really, really good, but there's no great ones.

00:57:39.195 --> 00:57:56.375
<v SPEAKER_3>But I will pick the final scene where Matt Damon comes home to find Mark Wahlberg, Sergeant Dignan and waiting for him in his apartment with the booties on his feet and a gun in his hand.

00:57:58.555 --> 00:58:01.215
<v SPEAKER_3>You might want to ask me why that's my favorite scene.

00:58:01.215 --> 00:58:02.275
<v SPEAKER_4>I know why.

00:58:02.275 --> 00:58:03.055
<v SPEAKER_3>Why?

00:58:03.055 --> 00:58:04.055
<v SPEAKER_4>The metaphor.

00:58:04.535 --> 00:58:05.835
<v SPEAKER_3>No, don't go there now.

00:58:05.835 --> 00:58:07.155
<v SPEAKER_3>Don't do that.

00:58:07.155 --> 00:58:07.595
<v SPEAKER_3>Don't do that.

00:58:07.815 --> 00:58:08.475
<v SPEAKER_3>We'll get there.

00:58:08.475 --> 00:58:09.315
<v SPEAKER_3>I know what you're going to say.

00:58:09.315 --> 00:58:10.375
<v SPEAKER_3>I've already heard it from you.

00:58:10.375 --> 00:58:13.615
<v SPEAKER_3>But seriously, you might want to ask me why is it my favorite scene?

00:58:13.615 --> 00:58:15.355
<v SPEAKER_4>Why is it your favorite scene?

00:58:15.355 --> 00:58:16.195
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm glad you asked.

00:58:18.815 --> 00:58:19.335
<v SPEAKER_4>I forgot.

00:58:19.375 --> 00:58:21.295
<v SPEAKER_3>No, a couple of reasons.

00:58:21.295 --> 00:58:23.255
<v SPEAKER_3>Endings are hard.

00:58:23.255 --> 00:58:23.775
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:58:23.775 --> 00:58:29.255
<v SPEAKER_3>The hardest thing in fiction, in film.

00:58:29.255 --> 00:58:36.455
<v SPEAKER_3>So it's the hardest thing, yet it's the most important thing in that, how many great films are there that are going on?

00:58:36.455 --> 00:58:39.375
<v SPEAKER_3>Then the ending doesn't pay off.

00:58:40.195 --> 00:58:42.495
<v SPEAKER_3>It really takes down the whole movie.

00:58:42.495 --> 00:58:49.975
<v SPEAKER_3>The famous example for me is Magnolia, the Paul Thomas Anders film, which is so fantastic.

00:58:50.075 --> 00:58:53.615
<v SPEAKER_3>Then the resolution is Reigning Frogs.

00:58:55.035 --> 00:59:00.935
<v SPEAKER_3>But there's countless examples where films going along, going on, and they just can't stick the landing.

00:59:01.155 --> 00:59:05.275
<v SPEAKER_3>This film sticks the landing in such a big way.

00:59:05.775 --> 00:59:10.135
<v SPEAKER_3>It's so fantastic because it's a satisfying ending.

00:59:10.455 --> 00:59:19.155
<v SPEAKER_3>Up to that last scene, the pacing of the film, and again, hats off to Thomas Schoonmacher as editor, as well as the screenwriter.

00:59:19.155 --> 00:59:23.875
<v SPEAKER_3>The pacing is, we think it's already been wrapped up.

00:59:23.875 --> 00:59:24.915
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, he's the hero.

00:59:24.915 --> 00:59:25.435
<v SPEAKER_4>That's right.

00:59:25.635 --> 00:59:27.215
<v SPEAKER_3>And Matt Damon's gonna get away.

00:59:27.315 --> 00:59:34.275
<v SPEAKER_3>And we feel like he's already gotten his measure of payback because he goes up to Vera Farmiga at the funeral and she won't talk to him.

00:59:34.275 --> 00:59:43.955
<v SPEAKER_3>And so, as the audience, we think that's the wrap up and we're like, okay, he's getting a little bit of what's coming to him, but fuck, he's getting away with all this shit and we don't like that.

00:59:43.955 --> 00:59:50.595
<v SPEAKER_3>And then, what's so great about that scene with Wahlberg showing up, the surprise.

00:59:51.595 --> 00:59:52.855
<v SPEAKER_4>I was gonna say that, yes.

00:59:53.155 --> 01:00:02.135
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's such a tightrope and so well constructed in that, A, it's a surprise because we've kind of forgotten about Dignan, Mark Wahlberg's character.

01:00:02.135 --> 01:00:04.935
<v SPEAKER_3>He's gone away, he's been out of the film for so long.

01:00:04.935 --> 01:00:05.355
<v SPEAKER_4>Yep.

01:00:05.355 --> 01:00:15.455
<v SPEAKER_3>Yet in terms of the construction and in terms of Wahlberg's performance is, he's unforgettable because his performance, what we'll get to, is so over the top.

01:00:15.455 --> 01:00:17.435
<v SPEAKER_3>It's like you can't forget it.

01:00:17.875 --> 01:00:22.955
<v SPEAKER_3>If Wahlberg hadn't played his performance so much to stick in your mind, you probably would have forgot.

01:00:22.955 --> 01:00:25.595
<v SPEAKER_3>But when he shows up, you're like, oh, it's fucking dig-

01:00:25.595 --> 01:00:28.375
<v SPEAKER_3>even though he hasn't been in the film for so long, you totally recognize him.

01:00:28.375 --> 01:00:32.815
<v SPEAKER_3>You're like, ah, and the loop gets closed.

01:00:32.815 --> 01:00:33.595
<v SPEAKER_3>It does.

01:00:33.595 --> 01:00:48.235
<v SPEAKER_3>And it gets closed with this fantastic bookend, which is because the film starts out with the scene of young Matt Damon in that grocery store as a young boy, Frank Costello, Jack Nicholson coming in.

01:00:48.835 --> 01:00:49.815
<v SPEAKER_3>And he buys-

01:00:49.815 --> 01:00:56.395
<v SPEAKER_3>Nicholson buys the young boy groceries, loaf of bread and milk, and it's in a paper sack.

01:00:56.395 --> 01:01:03.755
<v SPEAKER_3>And then when the older Matt Damon character gets shot by Dignan, he falls on the floor.

01:01:03.755 --> 01:01:07.455
<v SPEAKER_3>He's carrying a sack of groceries with a loaf of bread and milk in it.

01:01:07.455 --> 01:01:08.155
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:01:08.155 --> 01:01:08.535
<v SPEAKER_4>Good one.

01:01:08.535 --> 01:01:09.075
<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't-

01:01:09.075 --> 01:01:11.395
<v SPEAKER_4>right, I didn't connect that.

01:01:11.395 --> 01:01:15.135
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, that was, you know, he's unforgettable because he's unforgetting.

01:01:15.135 --> 01:01:17.835
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, and they set him up so well.

01:01:17.835 --> 01:01:25.575
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, he's, you know, he's such an obnoxious fuck, but you know, he's serious, you know, and he's not going to forget.

01:01:25.575 --> 01:01:27.735
<v SPEAKER_4>He's not going to forget, you know?

01:01:27.735 --> 01:01:28.155
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:01:28.155 --> 01:01:30.015
<v SPEAKER_4>So what almost ruins that?

01:01:30.015 --> 01:01:34.155
<v SPEAKER_4>What, you know, the other important thing is, is that what-

01:01:34.155 --> 01:01:43.295
<v SPEAKER_4>it's not noir then, you know, because when I first saw it, I was going, oh my God, he's going to get away with it because he finally-

01:01:43.575 --> 01:01:47.135
<v SPEAKER_4>he betrayed, you know, Costello because he does.

01:01:47.135 --> 01:01:48.035
<v SPEAKER_4>He openly-

01:01:48.035 --> 01:01:52.875
<v SPEAKER_4>he realizes when he finds out that Costello was an FBI informant, right?

01:01:53.455 --> 01:01:56.175
<v SPEAKER_4>That he's on the line, possibly, you know?

01:01:56.175 --> 01:02:01.115
<v SPEAKER_4>And then he finds out there's another informant in the police, so he's not alone, he's not the golden boy.

01:02:01.115 --> 01:02:06.495
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, this is all said in that warehouse scene, but you get that going on here, you know?

01:02:06.555 --> 01:02:13.855
<v SPEAKER_4>And so, you know, he gets away with it, and he's going to be able to get away with it, because he changed his stand.

01:02:13.855 --> 01:02:17.495
<v SPEAKER_4>He becomes a good, quote unquote, cop, right?

01:02:17.495 --> 01:02:19.975
<v SPEAKER_4>But not to ding him, you know what I mean?

01:02:19.975 --> 01:02:21.175
<v SPEAKER_4>A dingman, not to him.

01:02:21.175 --> 01:02:26.175
<v SPEAKER_4>And so it's just too bad that, you know, they had to do that stupid metaphor at the end, you know?

01:02:26.175 --> 01:02:28.395
<v SPEAKER_4>Are we going to ruin it for people, or what?

01:02:28.415 --> 01:02:34.735
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, sorry, people should hopefully know that these podcasts are full of spoilers, so.

01:02:34.735 --> 01:02:35.315
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, that's true.

01:02:35.595 --> 01:02:36.495
<v SPEAKER_3>We've already ruined them.

01:02:36.495 --> 01:02:40.155
<v SPEAKER_3>We've already talked about the end, so you might as well go ahead.

01:02:40.495 --> 01:02:43.335
<v SPEAKER_3>What bothered you about my favorite scene, FT?

01:02:43.335 --> 01:02:46.435
<v SPEAKER_3>Why don't you go ahead and shit all over my favorite scene, why don't you?

01:02:46.435 --> 01:02:48.935
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I'm not going to shit all over, because he did.

01:02:48.935 --> 01:03:03.455
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, there's a tilt up to the shot we've seen all along from this magnificent penthouse of the rallying beyond, which is the gold dome of the Capitol building, and a rat walks across the railing.

01:03:03.455 --> 01:03:11.555
<v SPEAKER_4>And it's so funny, because one of my other favorite scenes was the bar scene, where Jack Nicholson goes berserk off the...

01:03:11.675 --> 01:03:19.095
<v SPEAKER_4>He goes full, full, full wacky Jack, and he does that imitation of a rat with the buck teeth and all that.

01:03:19.095 --> 01:03:20.575
<v SPEAKER_4>It's just, I'm like, come on, Marty.

01:03:20.575 --> 01:03:24.275
<v SPEAKER_4>And you go like, well, he wanted to do it as a laugh, I guess.

01:03:24.815 --> 01:03:27.415
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, he's such a sophisticated filmmaker in this thing.

01:03:27.415 --> 01:03:28.635
<v SPEAKER_4>Why the hell else would you do it?

01:03:28.755 --> 01:03:31.735
<v SPEAKER_4>You know what he's probably asked, or was it because I could?

01:03:31.735 --> 01:03:39.775
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no, the answer, my friend, my friend is blowing in Reddit as it, when you want to answer as you go to Reddit.

01:03:39.775 --> 01:03:51.635
<v SPEAKER_3>And I, so I'm sorry, if it wasn't clear, because Frank jumped to a bar scene there, what he's trying to say is that rat out the window, it's just, it's so stupid.

01:03:52.775 --> 01:04:02.975
<v SPEAKER_3>But a Redditor who I will leave unidentified here spoke to the significance of that rat in the film.

01:04:02.975 --> 01:04:07.155
<v SPEAKER_3>And he said, the rat symbolizes obviousness.

01:04:12.255 --> 01:04:20.635
<v SPEAKER_4>I wonder, hey, in the movies that he was watching, obviously, you know, in the movies that he did have everybody watch, I wonder if there's like a rat thing.

01:04:20.635 --> 01:04:21.735
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, that could, that could be.

01:04:21.735 --> 01:04:25.675
<v SPEAKER_4>And like Scarface or something like that, you know, like you dirty rat.

01:04:25.675 --> 01:04:26.715
<v SPEAKER_3>You're right.

01:04:26.715 --> 01:04:30.315
<v SPEAKER_3>But it's, A, it's just bad because of its obviousness.

01:04:30.315 --> 01:04:34.395
<v SPEAKER_3>And B, it's bad because it's, you know, it's a special fix.

01:04:34.395 --> 01:04:37.155
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not, it was done in CGI.

01:04:37.155 --> 01:04:42.915
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's so, you look at it, there's like a fucking halo around the whole rat's body.

01:04:43.115 --> 01:04:44.095
<v SPEAKER_3>It's so bad.

01:04:45.815 --> 01:04:48.575
<v SPEAKER_3>The rat, the rat symbolizes obviousness.

01:04:48.575 --> 01:04:51.995
<v SPEAKER_3>Obviousness, obviously, obviously.

01:04:52.175 --> 01:04:55.875
<v SPEAKER_3>And sorry, I was, I realized I did not give credit where credit was due.

01:04:55.875 --> 01:05:03.075
<v SPEAKER_3>The, when we opened the show with me saying, is, is The Departed a good movie?

01:05:03.095 --> 01:05:06.055
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, maybe, maybe go fuck yourself or whatever.

01:05:06.055 --> 01:05:09.155
<v SPEAKER_3>I also lifted, I lifted that from Reddit.

01:05:09.155 --> 01:05:11.495
<v SPEAKER_3>I get most of my good material from, from Reddit.

01:05:12.055 --> 01:05:13.215
<v SPEAKER_4>Reddit's something else, yeah.

01:05:13.395 --> 01:05:15.655
<v SPEAKER_3>I want to acknowledge that.

01:05:15.655 --> 01:05:21.375
<v SPEAKER_3>Why don't we move on FT, unless you're not ready to talk about the acting in The Departed.

01:05:21.375 --> 01:05:22.535
<v SPEAKER_4>Let's go ahead.

01:05:22.535 --> 01:05:23.295
<v SPEAKER_4>I am ready.

01:05:23.295 --> 01:05:29.875
<v SPEAKER_3>OK, so this film, there's a lot of actors to talk about, obviously, the, we've got twin leads.

01:05:29.875 --> 01:05:38.155
<v SPEAKER_3>We've got dueling leads of, of, well, really three leads, even though Jack was supporting.

01:05:38.155 --> 01:05:39.635
<v SPEAKER_4>He's in it a lot, man, yeah.

01:05:39.695 --> 01:05:46.675
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, but, but really it's dueling leads of Leo, Leonardo DiCaprio and Matt Damon.

01:05:46.715 --> 01:05:47.935
<v SPEAKER_3>FT, who wins for you?

01:05:47.935 --> 01:05:48.775
<v SPEAKER_4>Leo.

01:05:48.775 --> 01:05:49.975
<v SPEAKER_3>Any reason why?

01:05:49.975 --> 01:05:58.435
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, because I think he's plays a part that is not as, it's more difficult, there's more nuance to it.

01:05:58.435 --> 01:06:02.215
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, Matt Damon is playing, you know, it struck me, it was odd.

01:06:02.215 --> 01:06:03.795
<v SPEAKER_4>I can just speak about this.

01:06:03.795 --> 01:06:10.095
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm watching at one point early on, Matt Damon, I'm going, did he just take a Denzel Washington pill?

01:06:10.095 --> 01:06:18.175
<v SPEAKER_4>I never noticed, like, I really felt there was like a similarity in a way, you know, anyhow, but he was playing a part.

01:06:18.175 --> 01:06:24.255
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, I got a couple of, I got a question for a couple of, is there such a thing?

01:06:24.255 --> 01:06:26.055
<v SPEAKER_4>As a Denzel Washington pill?

01:06:26.055 --> 01:06:28.555
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes.

01:06:28.555 --> 01:06:31.675
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know if we got to ask Vera Farmiga, you know.

01:06:31.675 --> 01:06:33.835
<v SPEAKER_4>No, but you know what I'm saying, it struck me as a-

01:06:33.835 --> 01:06:39.315
<v SPEAKER_3>Maybe there will be now, since they're not going to really be doing such extensive testing on drugs before they're FDA approved.

01:06:39.315 --> 01:06:40.055
<v SPEAKER_3>But what do you mean?

01:06:40.615 --> 01:06:44.735
<v SPEAKER_3>What part did you feel like Matt Damon was reminding you of Denzel Washington?

01:06:44.735 --> 01:06:55.375
<v SPEAKER_4>The way they respond and, you know, tell jokes and the way he was responding at the beginning, particularly, in the scene where, you know, there's that, it's a style.

01:06:56.075 --> 01:07:09.395
<v SPEAKER_4>I really tried to put my finger on it, but I was just like, it struck me as that, you know, I could see, I could almost interchange the two sometimes, you know, I could see Denzel playing and delivering in a similar way.

01:07:09.395 --> 01:07:10.495
<v SPEAKER_4>You know?

01:07:10.495 --> 01:07:24.095
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I get the same, I mean, it's hard to understand what you're saying, but I totally get, you know, no, a lot of times when I watch, you know, I'm watching the studio now and watch, you know, a lot of times Seth Rogen reminds me of Christopher Plummer.

01:07:27.515 --> 01:07:28.795
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry.

01:07:28.935 --> 01:07:30.115
<v SPEAKER_4>You suck.

01:07:31.715 --> 01:07:37.715
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it's also, if we're going to go, all right, you know, because I have another lookalike coming up.

01:07:38.835 --> 01:07:39.795
<v SPEAKER_3>Actalike, you mean?

01:07:39.795 --> 01:07:40.175
<v SPEAKER_3>Actalike?

01:07:40.175 --> 01:07:41.635
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, more like a lookalike.

01:07:43.775 --> 01:07:44.275
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm with you.

01:07:44.275 --> 01:07:48.475
<v SPEAKER_3>I think Leo, you know, they're both terrific.

01:07:48.475 --> 01:07:51.435
<v SPEAKER_3>I think Leo pulls ahead.

01:07:51.435 --> 01:07:55.015
<v SPEAKER_3>There's obviously a great affinity between Marty and Leo.

01:07:55.015 --> 01:07:59.875
<v SPEAKER_3>I think this is, I think this was the first film that Leo did with Marty.

01:07:59.875 --> 01:08:00.515
<v SPEAKER_4>I think it is.

01:08:00.515 --> 01:08:00.935
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:08:01.055 --> 01:08:09.375
<v SPEAKER_3>And obviously, since then, they've been going, they keep working together, which has been great for Marty B's Leo star power, gets Marty's movies made.

01:08:09.415 --> 01:08:10.075
<v SPEAKER_4>Exactly.

01:08:10.295 --> 01:08:16.075
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's jump to what may be the third lead, but I think we have to call a supporting, which is one, Mr.

01:08:16.075 --> 01:08:17.215
<v SPEAKER_3>Jack Nicholson.

01:08:17.215 --> 01:08:20.395
<v SPEAKER_3>Your thoughts on his performance, FT?

01:08:20.455 --> 01:08:22.355
<v SPEAKER_4>Late period Jack, up and down.

01:08:22.355 --> 01:08:34.855
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, like so there, I mean, I believe him, he's a character, a unique type, but then there's that over the top lunacy, which you go, well, that's part of the character.

01:08:34.855 --> 01:08:40.375
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it feels a little bit like, he got a little shining knee on me.

01:08:40.375 --> 01:08:40.655
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

01:08:40.655 --> 01:08:41.735
<v SPEAKER_4>Jack Tennedy.

01:08:41.735 --> 01:08:42.835
<v SPEAKER_4>You know what I mean?

01:08:42.835 --> 01:08:51.895
<v SPEAKER_4>This is where he's starting to get a little over the top with his overdoing it, you know, not staying within, you know, some emotional basis.

01:08:51.895 --> 01:08:57.675
<v SPEAKER_4>I felt like, you know, he was caricaturing, you know, the shining is what struck me there.

01:08:57.675 --> 01:09:01.295
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, I was waiting for him, you know, to say, where is Johnny?

01:09:01.295 --> 01:09:06.175
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, when he comes up with all the blood on his hands, here's Johnny, here's Johnny.

01:09:06.175 --> 01:09:08.395
<v SPEAKER_3>It wasn't, it wasn't the shining was it?

01:09:08.395 --> 01:09:09.295
<v SPEAKER_3>You said, where's Johnny?

01:09:09.355 --> 01:09:13.895
<v SPEAKER_3>It wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't like where's Waldo.

01:09:13.895 --> 01:09:15.315
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, it was.

01:09:15.315 --> 01:09:16.415
<v SPEAKER_4>The version I saw.

01:09:16.415 --> 01:09:20.155
<v SPEAKER_3>People also ask, where was Johnny in The Shining?

01:09:21.435 --> 01:09:24.315
<v SPEAKER_4>Da da da da da.

01:09:24.315 --> 01:09:25.295
<v SPEAKER_2>Ed McMahon.

01:09:25.475 --> 01:09:33.375
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know what's going on these days, FT, but when they cast us in this podcast, we were supposed to be opposites.

01:09:33.375 --> 01:09:37.155
<v SPEAKER_3>And I don't know, we're on the same page so much today, Bees.

01:09:37.255 --> 01:09:38.035
<v SPEAKER_4>It's terrible.

01:09:38.155 --> 01:09:39.935
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm with you, I'm with you.

01:09:39.935 --> 01:09:47.375
<v SPEAKER_3>I feel like Jack in many, in multiple parts, started chewing the scenery.

01:09:48.455 --> 01:09:50.415
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, that's your term, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:50.415 --> 01:09:55.555
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, it's not just my term, it's a term of work there.

01:09:55.555 --> 01:09:58.635
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's interesting, it's amazing that you brought up The Shining, Bees.

01:09:58.635 --> 01:09:59.795
<v SPEAKER_3>I was gonna bring it up.

01:09:59.795 --> 01:10:07.015
<v SPEAKER_3>Bees, I think the issue, you could say it's an issue with Jack, and you would be right in saying that.

01:10:07.015 --> 01:10:15.875
<v SPEAKER_3>But it's the director's job to either communicate to the actor, hey, pull it back a little, or simply let the actor do it.

01:10:15.875 --> 01:10:21.235
<v SPEAKER_3>And in editing, select a take that he's not going so far.

01:10:21.235 --> 01:10:28.435
<v SPEAKER_3>But for some reason, Marty, and I guess the old Skoon Maker, seems to really get a kick out of actor.

01:10:28.435 --> 01:10:31.915
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, he does it with Pacino in The Irishman.

01:10:32.095 --> 01:10:36.575
<v SPEAKER_3>There's so many scenes where Pacino goes over off the rails.

01:10:36.575 --> 01:10:40.015
<v SPEAKER_3>And I guess that's what Marty wants to see.

01:10:40.015 --> 01:10:47.315
<v SPEAKER_3>But it's interesting, Jack Nicholson in The Shining, which you brought up, where he is literally insane, losing his mind.

01:10:47.315 --> 01:10:55.195
<v SPEAKER_3>I feel like Kubrick keeps him in the channel a lot more than Nicholson in this movie.

01:10:55.455 --> 01:11:02.055
<v SPEAKER_4>It's odd because on the other hand, he's playing a part where he's not so over the top.

01:11:02.055 --> 01:11:05.115
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, there are many scenes where he's not over the top at all.

01:11:05.115 --> 01:11:14.515
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, the scene in the restaurant with the nuns and the two priests, which is an interesting great little scene where he had a sexual relationship with a nun.

01:11:14.515 --> 01:11:15.055
<v SPEAKER_4>Is that right?

01:11:15.055 --> 01:11:15.735
<v SPEAKER_4>Isn't that implied?

01:11:15.735 --> 01:11:16.595
<v SPEAKER_4>Doesn't he say that?

01:11:16.595 --> 01:11:16.775
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:11:16.775 --> 01:11:18.655
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:19.135 --> 01:11:21.175
<v SPEAKER_3>And you saw the drawing he dropped on the table, right?

01:11:21.175 --> 01:11:22.375
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, right, in the bar scene.

01:11:22.375 --> 01:11:24.795
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, with the rats attacking the Capitol building.

01:11:24.795 --> 01:11:27.615
<v SPEAKER_3>No, he drops the picture on the table with the priests.

01:11:27.615 --> 01:11:29.115
<v SPEAKER_3>You saw the pictures, right?

01:11:29.115 --> 01:11:30.495
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.

01:11:30.495 --> 01:11:31.675
<v SPEAKER_3>You're saying, right, what was it?

01:11:31.675 --> 01:11:32.655
<v SPEAKER_3>What was the picture?

01:11:32.655 --> 01:11:33.995
<v SPEAKER_4>I forget.

01:11:34.015 --> 01:11:35.155
<v SPEAKER_2>I was more concerned with...

01:11:35.155 --> 01:11:36.495
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the nun with tits.

01:11:36.795 --> 01:11:39.315
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the nun topless.

01:11:39.315 --> 01:11:40.935
<v SPEAKER_4>It's the topless nun.

01:11:40.935 --> 01:11:45.995
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, which was the original title for the Sally Fields show.

01:11:45.995 --> 01:11:46.555
<v SPEAKER_2>The topless nun.

01:11:46.555 --> 01:11:48.935
<v SPEAKER_2>I thought you said this movie, the topless nun.

01:11:49.175 --> 01:11:51.315
<v SPEAKER_3>Remember the flying nun, the whole thing in the...

01:11:51.415 --> 01:11:53.215
<v SPEAKER_3>I do remember the flying nun.

01:11:53.215 --> 01:11:55.795
<v SPEAKER_3>Was she had that weird hat with the wings?

01:11:55.795 --> 01:11:56.115
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes.

01:11:56.115 --> 01:12:02.655
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, in the original, her breasts would flap around in the wind and propel her skyward.

01:12:02.655 --> 01:12:04.775
<v SPEAKER_4>In the pilot, you mean?

01:12:04.775 --> 01:12:06.055
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, yes.

01:12:07.275 --> 01:12:08.035
<v SPEAKER_3>It didn't test well.

01:12:08.035 --> 01:12:09.895
<v SPEAKER_3>It didn't test well.

01:12:09.895 --> 01:12:11.555
<v SPEAKER_4>The Protestants loved it.

01:12:11.555 --> 01:12:12.735
<v SPEAKER_5>You know?

01:12:14.675 --> 01:12:16.655
<v SPEAKER_4>That's what my mother would have said.

01:12:20.695 --> 01:12:28.495
<v SPEAKER_3>On the other hand, nevertheless, there are some scenes where Jack puts on a masterclass for aspiring actors.

01:12:28.495 --> 01:12:30.615
<v SPEAKER_3>I would use it as an exhibit.

01:12:30.615 --> 01:12:42.875
<v SPEAKER_3>The very first scene between Leonardo and Jack, where we start out with, and I know it's always bad to narrate these scenes on the podcast, but I need to point it out to everyone who wants to watch it.

01:12:44.595 --> 01:12:51.315
<v SPEAKER_3>Leo is sitting alone at a bar and Jack comes in and he sits down next to Leo.

01:12:54.155 --> 01:13:00.755
<v SPEAKER_3>He sits down, before he speaks, he takes like 30 million beats.

01:13:00.755 --> 01:13:04.755
<v SPEAKER_3>It's unbelievable how many beats he takes before he opens his mouth.

01:13:04.755 --> 01:13:11.335
<v SPEAKER_3>And if you watch him, he's doing all this incredible internal work before he says, you know who I am?

01:13:11.335 --> 01:13:13.615
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's a fucking master class.

01:13:13.615 --> 01:13:16.855
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, well, they both are, because Leo is great.

01:13:16.855 --> 01:13:19.835
<v SPEAKER_4>Leo just looks in like, no.

01:13:20.875 --> 01:13:24.315
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, and it's, hey, what are we doing here, guys?

01:13:24.315 --> 01:13:27.135
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, you come and sit down next to Leo.

01:13:27.135 --> 01:13:30.875
<v SPEAKER_3>Another director, another actor, hey, you sit down next to Leo and you do your line.

01:13:30.875 --> 01:13:32.055
<v SPEAKER_3>That's not what's happening there.

01:13:32.055 --> 01:13:35.155
<v SPEAKER_3>It's all about them sitting down.

01:13:35.155 --> 01:13:40.315
<v SPEAKER_3>And before he says his first line, and it's fantastic.

01:13:40.315 --> 01:13:43.355
<v SPEAKER_4>It's a good scene, too, because Leo's already met Frenchie, you know what I mean?

01:13:43.355 --> 01:13:45.015
<v SPEAKER_4>And he doesn't notice anything.

01:13:45.015 --> 01:13:46.115
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:13:46.115 --> 01:13:49.955
<v SPEAKER_3>Arnold, Arnold is formally known.

01:13:49.955 --> 01:13:51.375
<v SPEAKER_3>Seriously, that's his real name, Arnold.

01:13:51.375 --> 01:13:52.675
<v SPEAKER_4>To his non-friends.

01:13:56.695 --> 01:14:02.155
<v SPEAKER_3>Best female actor, who would you give it to?

01:14:02.155 --> 01:14:04.335
<v SPEAKER_4>Geez, I don't know, who would you give it to?

01:14:04.375 --> 01:14:07.795
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, I like her, by the way, in this, and I've always liked her work.

01:14:07.795 --> 01:14:10.855
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's get to it in a second, but it's interesting.

01:14:12.195 --> 01:14:15.815
<v SPEAKER_3>This is a male, I went through, it's her.

01:14:15.815 --> 01:14:19.215
<v SPEAKER_3>There's no other, really no other women in this film.

01:14:19.515 --> 01:14:23.155
<v SPEAKER_3>It's a male film, which...

01:14:23.155 --> 01:14:25.315
<v SPEAKER_4>There's the one guy's mother in Early On, you know?

01:14:25.315 --> 01:14:27.795
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, but really, it's all male.

01:14:27.855 --> 01:14:28.255
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:14:28.595 --> 01:14:36.975
<v SPEAKER_3>It's a man's film, which makes it, like, my wife hates films with, that are mostly men.

01:14:36.975 --> 01:14:39.135
<v SPEAKER_3>Actually, my wife hates men.

01:14:39.135 --> 01:14:45.115
<v SPEAKER_3>She used to love men before she married me, and now she despises them.

01:14:45.115 --> 01:14:47.735
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know what's going on.

01:14:47.735 --> 01:14:50.135
<v SPEAKER_3>So what do we think of Vera?

01:14:50.135 --> 01:14:56.775
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't know what's going on, because, jeez, she must be nuts.

01:14:58.895 --> 01:15:01.415
<v SPEAKER_3>What do we think of the performance of Vera Farmiga?

01:15:01.535 --> 01:15:02.235
<v SPEAKER_4>I like it.

01:15:02.235 --> 01:15:06.335
<v SPEAKER_4>I like the vulnerability of her, and there's a wisdom to it.

01:15:06.335 --> 01:15:10.395
<v SPEAKER_4>There's, you know, I keep talking about intention, not popping out.

01:15:10.395 --> 01:15:14.555
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, Jack does pop out, we were talking about, you know, to be a mad man, you know.

01:15:14.555 --> 01:15:15.155
<v SPEAKER_4>She doesn't.

01:15:15.195 --> 01:15:24.135
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, she's, there's a particularly, there's a scene in bed after she's already had sex with Leo, where she's with Matt Damon.

01:15:24.135 --> 01:15:30.075
<v SPEAKER_4>You remember that scene where he is talking about, maybe we'll move to another city?

01:15:30.075 --> 01:15:30.795
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

01:15:30.935 --> 01:15:33.595
<v SPEAKER_4>It is so controlled what she's doing.

01:15:33.775 --> 01:15:39.495
<v SPEAKER_4>You see that she's going, I'm getting the picture here that he's in trouble.

01:15:39.495 --> 01:15:53.695
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that he's really in trouble, and I'm never going to find out, you know, and just the exchanges, you know, the witty exchanges with Matt Damon early in the elevator and the serious business with Leo and all the Leo scenes are really good, you know.

01:15:53.695 --> 01:15:54.155
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:15:54.395 --> 01:15:55.095
<v SPEAKER_4>What do you think?

01:15:56.155 --> 01:15:56.815
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm with you.

01:15:56.955 --> 01:15:58.195
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know what's happened to her.

01:15:58.195 --> 01:16:00.815
<v SPEAKER_3>She was a big rising star.

01:16:00.975 --> 01:16:03.355
<v SPEAKER_3>I have not seen her lately.

01:16:03.355 --> 01:16:04.715
<v SPEAKER_3>Have you, FT.?

01:16:04.715 --> 01:16:05.555
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

01:16:05.555 --> 01:16:07.895
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I haven't.

01:16:08.015 --> 01:16:08.315
<v SPEAKER_4>Not lately.

01:16:08.315 --> 01:16:09.775
<v SPEAKER_3>There could be a line in The Shining.

01:16:09.775 --> 01:16:11.135
<v SPEAKER_3>Where's Vera?

01:16:14.015 --> 01:16:15.155
<v SPEAKER_4>But she's been working.

01:16:15.155 --> 01:16:16.755
<v SPEAKER_4>I did look her up.

01:16:16.755 --> 01:16:18.615
<v SPEAKER_4>She has been working.

01:16:20.175 --> 01:16:22.275
<v SPEAKER_4>But nothing.

01:16:22.275 --> 01:16:28.615
<v SPEAKER_4>You know what struck me about, just one thing I was talking about before about the Denzel.

01:16:28.615 --> 01:16:30.215
<v SPEAKER_4>Chinatown being last week.

01:16:30.315 --> 01:16:31.475
<v SPEAKER_3>Are we going to talk about?

01:16:31.475 --> 01:16:33.075
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I'm talking about Vera Farmiga.

01:16:33.075 --> 01:16:33.835
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm talking about her.

01:16:34.095 --> 01:16:34.795
<v SPEAKER_4>Keep going.

01:16:34.795 --> 01:16:45.635
<v SPEAKER_4>When I first saw her, when she first appears, and I believe the elevator scene, straight on, I'm going like, oh my God, Faye Dunaway's sister.

01:16:47.095 --> 01:16:49.575
<v SPEAKER_4>I never noticed a resemblance.

01:16:50.135 --> 01:16:52.835
<v SPEAKER_4>It's family resemblance, I felt.

01:16:52.835 --> 01:16:55.275
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, no, it's not Faye Dunaway's...

01:16:55.275 --> 01:16:57.975
<v SPEAKER_3>You said Faye Dunaway's sister?

01:16:57.995 --> 01:16:58.875
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not Faye Dunaway's sister.

01:16:58.875 --> 01:16:59.715
<v SPEAKER_4>Don't say it, don't say it.

01:16:59.715 --> 01:17:00.235
<v SPEAKER_3>Please don't say it.

01:17:00.235 --> 01:17:01.255
<v SPEAKER_3>Faye Dunaway's daughter.

01:17:01.255 --> 01:17:01.895
<v SPEAKER_4>Don't say it.

01:17:04.635 --> 01:17:15.595
<v SPEAKER_3>But speaking of the way Vera Farmiga looks, I think she has the right, I buy her look and the way she, you know, the way wardrobe is on her, I buy hers as a psychiatrist.

01:17:15.595 --> 01:17:18.735
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:17:18.735 --> 01:17:25.735
<v SPEAKER_3>I just wish I had been able to work with her as a dialect coach, because again, she would have been so much better with less accent.

01:17:26.975 --> 01:17:29.095
<v SPEAKER_4>You're so much better of a dialect coach than...

01:17:31.555 --> 01:17:32.335
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, I am.

01:17:32.335 --> 01:17:35.855
<v SPEAKER_3>Wait, why are you mocking me?

01:17:35.855 --> 01:17:37.435
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm not mocking you.

01:17:37.435 --> 01:17:38.535
<v SPEAKER_4>I was being sarcastic.

01:17:38.535 --> 01:17:40.675
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, why don't you coach my dialoguing?

01:17:40.675 --> 01:17:42.355
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, that's, sorry.

01:17:42.355 --> 01:17:43.555
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what's going to happen right now.

01:17:43.555 --> 01:17:44.555
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

01:17:44.555 --> 01:17:45.315
<v SPEAKER_3>All right.

01:17:45.315 --> 01:17:49.195
<v SPEAKER_3>So why don't we just do Boston with you?

01:17:49.195 --> 01:17:55.135
<v SPEAKER_3>So I want you to say, hold on Ken, I need to go park the car.

01:17:55.135 --> 01:17:55.455
<v SPEAKER_3>Go ahead.

01:17:56.995 --> 01:18:00.095
<v SPEAKER_4>Hold on Ken, I need to go park the car.

01:18:00.095 --> 01:18:00.775
<v SPEAKER_3>Perfect.

01:18:00.775 --> 01:18:01.855
<v SPEAKER_3>Boom.

01:18:02.255 --> 01:18:02.795
<v SPEAKER_3>I did it again.

01:18:02.795 --> 01:18:04.535
<v SPEAKER_4>You did a great job.

01:18:04.535 --> 01:18:05.675
<v SPEAKER_3>That was excellent.

01:18:06.175 --> 01:18:06.975
<v SPEAKER_3>That's all you need.

01:18:06.975 --> 01:18:09.115
<v SPEAKER_3>But she would have done.

01:18:11.195 --> 01:18:12.375
<v SPEAKER_4>This is the favorite part now.

01:18:12.375 --> 01:18:13.335
<v SPEAKER_4>Great audience.

01:18:13.335 --> 01:18:13.775
<v SPEAKER_2>Ready?

01:18:13.775 --> 01:18:16.015
<v SPEAKER_4>This is Ken now doing what she would have done it.

01:18:16.035 --> 01:18:16.975
<v SPEAKER_2>Dude, go.

01:18:16.975 --> 01:18:18.435
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, you got to set it up.

01:18:18.535 --> 01:18:19.595
<v SPEAKER_3>I'll set up myself.

01:18:20.395 --> 01:18:29.315
<v SPEAKER_3>They Shoot Films now presents Ken Mercer as Vera Farmiga as the psychiatrist whose name I forget in The Departed.

01:18:29.315 --> 01:18:30.115
<v SPEAKER_4>Madeleine.

01:18:30.115 --> 01:18:31.895
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:18:31.895 --> 01:18:33.195
<v SPEAKER_6>Hold on.

01:18:36.335 --> 01:18:38.615
<v SPEAKER_2>I can't do it.

01:18:38.615 --> 01:18:38.895
<v SPEAKER_3>Hold on.

01:18:38.895 --> 01:18:40.955
<v SPEAKER_2>I got to do it.

01:18:41.395 --> 01:18:41.815
<v SPEAKER_3>No, sorry.

01:18:41.815 --> 01:18:43.835
<v SPEAKER_3>I got to do.

01:18:43.835 --> 01:18:53.535
<v SPEAKER_3>I'll do Vera Famiglia as a character in Ibsen's Pure Gints.

01:18:53.575 --> 01:18:56.455
<v SPEAKER_3>Then let's go swimming in the fjord.

01:18:57.955 --> 01:18:59.715
<v SPEAKER_4>In the car.

01:18:59.795 --> 01:19:00.395
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

01:19:00.395 --> 01:19:01.095
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's move on.

01:19:01.095 --> 01:19:02.715
<v SPEAKER_3>Supporting actor.

01:19:02.715 --> 01:19:04.115
<v SPEAKER_3>Stop fucking around, FT.

01:19:04.235 --> 01:19:04.915
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm sorry.

01:19:04.915 --> 01:19:05.735
<v SPEAKER_4>Supporting actor.

01:19:05.735 --> 01:19:06.275
<v SPEAKER_4>There weren't any.

01:19:06.275 --> 01:19:07.015
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:19:07.015 --> 01:19:07.855
<v SPEAKER_3>There's so many.

01:19:07.855 --> 01:19:09.655
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's start with Marky.

01:19:09.795 --> 01:19:11.095
<v SPEAKER_3>Mark Wahlberg.

01:19:11.095 --> 01:19:11.455
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:19:11.455 --> 01:19:12.615
<v SPEAKER_4>Excellent.

01:19:12.615 --> 01:19:15.935
<v SPEAKER_4>Number one, Alec Baldwin, number two.

01:19:15.935 --> 01:19:16.655
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no.

01:19:16.655 --> 01:19:18.215
<v SPEAKER_4>Martin Sheen, number three.

01:19:18.535 --> 01:19:19.935
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's stay with Wahlberg.

01:19:19.935 --> 01:19:21.935
<v SPEAKER_2>No.

01:19:21.935 --> 01:19:33.675
<v SPEAKER_3>So, so much of this film, the actors improvised and I think that's what went on with Jack, is he was doing so much improvising and that is what happens to directors.

01:19:34.995 --> 01:19:48.035
<v SPEAKER_3>When you have actors improvising on the set, you're there on the set, you see them improvise, you've got the whole crew cracking up, and you remember that in the editing room, and it might not really belong in the film, but you've got all these memories of this great improvisation.

01:19:48.035 --> 01:19:53.695
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think that's what happened with Jack, and where he went too far was the improvisation.

01:19:54.595 --> 01:19:59.575
<v SPEAKER_3>He kept wanting to surprise Leo and Matt Damon.

01:19:59.575 --> 01:20:02.615
<v SPEAKER_3>So like that dildo in the porn theater, that was Jack's idea.

01:20:02.655 --> 01:20:05.575
<v SPEAKER_3>He just brought it and went it out.

01:20:05.575 --> 01:20:09.355
<v SPEAKER_3>In the cheese eating scene, he broke out the gun.

01:20:09.355 --> 01:20:11.415
<v SPEAKER_3>Leo didn't know the gun was going to come out.

01:20:11.695 --> 01:20:14.395
<v SPEAKER_3>He lit the paper on the drawing on fire.

01:20:14.395 --> 01:20:15.495
<v SPEAKER_4>Nice.

01:20:15.495 --> 01:20:18.035
<v SPEAKER_3>Leo didn't know that.

01:20:18.035 --> 01:20:19.715
<v SPEAKER_4>But I thought that all worked, by the way.

01:20:20.135 --> 01:20:20.575
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:20:21.095 --> 01:20:24.415
<v SPEAKER_3>So with Mark Wahlberg, he was improvising.

01:20:27.095 --> 01:20:32.855
<v SPEAKER_3>And his character became somewhat unbelievable than anybody could.

01:20:32.855 --> 01:20:35.475
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, he was supposed to be a dick, right?

01:20:35.475 --> 01:20:37.315
<v SPEAKER_3>But could anybody be that much of a dick?

01:20:37.315 --> 01:20:38.795
<v SPEAKER_3>Don't answer, Frank.

01:20:43.275 --> 01:20:45.135
<v SPEAKER_4>The audience here is 1-800.

01:20:47.155 --> 01:20:48.475
<v SPEAKER_4>Press 1 for dick.

01:20:48.475 --> 01:20:50.535
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:20:50.595 --> 01:20:50.795
<v SPEAKER_4>Really?

01:20:50.795 --> 01:20:52.375
<v SPEAKER_4>You really felt that, huh?

01:20:52.375 --> 01:20:53.275
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:20:53.275 --> 01:20:53.935
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, it's interesting.

01:20:53.935 --> 01:21:07.415
<v SPEAKER_3>Not only I felt that way, but apparently Jack either said directly to Wahlberg and then that didn't work, you know, said, hey, dial it back, Sonny boy.

01:21:08.215 --> 01:21:17.835
<v SPEAKER_3>And when that didn't work, he went to Marty and Marty and Jack had to say, Mark, you know, too much.

01:21:17.835 --> 01:21:18.595
<v SPEAKER_4>Wow.

01:21:18.595 --> 01:21:18.795
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:21:19.215 --> 01:21:20.355
<v SPEAKER_4>Wow.

01:21:20.355 --> 01:21:23.995
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I thought Martin Sheen covered it with him, you know, like, you know, he's always.

01:21:23.995 --> 01:21:24.455
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, he did.

01:21:24.995 --> 01:21:26.095
<v SPEAKER_3>But again, we saw what was there.

01:21:26.095 --> 01:21:31.515
<v SPEAKER_3>But apparently, apparently what we didn't see, he was taking it even farther.

01:21:31.515 --> 01:21:32.315
<v SPEAKER_4>Huh.

01:21:32.315 --> 01:21:33.955
<v SPEAKER_4>Didn't bug me at all.

01:21:34.115 --> 01:21:34.975
<v SPEAKER_4>I totally took it.

01:21:35.295 --> 01:21:37.255
<v SPEAKER_3>You're used to me.

01:21:37.255 --> 01:21:39.795
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, I mean, you know, I've known people like that.

01:21:39.795 --> 01:21:40.715
<v SPEAKER_4>They just can't stop.

01:21:40.715 --> 01:21:42.535
<v SPEAKER_4>They can't dial it back at all.

01:21:42.535 --> 01:21:46.615
<v SPEAKER_4>It's gonna be one thing after the next, you know, scumbag this, you know, you fuckhead that and you don't know that.

01:21:46.615 --> 01:21:49.035
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it's just like he's totally believable to me.

01:21:49.035 --> 01:21:49.735
<v SPEAKER_4>I like this.

01:21:49.735 --> 01:21:50.735
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, I liked it.

01:21:50.735 --> 01:21:53.115
<v SPEAKER_4>Plus he was funny, you know.

01:21:53.115 --> 01:21:53.655
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

01:21:53.655 --> 01:21:54.275
<v SPEAKER_4>Anyhow.

01:21:54.275 --> 01:21:55.555
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:21:55.715 --> 01:21:58.275
<v SPEAKER_3>You mentioned Martin Sheen.

01:21:59.555 --> 01:22:00.855
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you think?

01:22:02.015 --> 01:22:04.495
<v SPEAKER_4>What was the character in West Wing?

01:22:04.495 --> 01:22:04.815
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

01:22:04.815 --> 01:22:05.795
<v SPEAKER_3>The president president.

01:22:05.795 --> 01:22:07.115
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, he's another one.

01:22:07.115 --> 01:22:10.555
<v SPEAKER_4>He's, you know, the Kurt Russell argument that I've been giving all along.

01:22:10.555 --> 01:22:11.315
<v SPEAKER_4>He's Martin Sheen.

01:22:12.995 --> 01:22:14.875
<v SPEAKER_4>He's a guy that looks like Martin Sheen.

01:22:15.175 --> 01:22:18.595
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, hey, that captain, you know, he looks like Martin Sheen.

01:22:18.595 --> 01:22:19.515
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:22:19.515 --> 01:22:21.795
<v SPEAKER_3>But I don't know.

01:22:21.915 --> 01:22:25.175
<v SPEAKER_3>I think that short changes his abilities.

01:22:25.175 --> 01:22:26.615
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, he's good.

01:22:26.615 --> 01:22:28.215
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, he's that.

01:22:28.215 --> 01:22:29.875
<v SPEAKER_3>You become a victim of your success.

01:22:29.875 --> 01:22:31.515
<v SPEAKER_3>Let me ask you a question of FT.

01:22:31.555 --> 01:22:32.535
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

01:22:32.535 --> 01:22:34.195
<v SPEAKER_4>Having been a victim of my success?

01:22:34.195 --> 01:22:37.015
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:22:37.015 --> 01:22:43.995
<v SPEAKER_3>When he was in Apocalypse Now, when he wasn't a Martin Sheen type, what do you think of his performance?

01:22:43.995 --> 01:22:46.595
<v SPEAKER_4>It was fresh and new and I never seen him before.

01:22:46.595 --> 01:22:47.195
<v SPEAKER_4>That's correct.

01:22:47.195 --> 01:22:48.315
<v SPEAKER_4>And I was, yes.

01:22:48.315 --> 01:22:49.215
<v SPEAKER_3>All right.

01:22:49.215 --> 01:22:50.135
<v SPEAKER_3>He's a good actor.

01:22:50.135 --> 01:22:51.295
<v SPEAKER_4>He's a good actor.

01:22:51.595 --> 01:23:03.375
<v SPEAKER_3>And so, yes, he was cast for looking the part for being Martin Sheen, for bringing that humanity from the West Wing, which is so important, I think, in this role.

01:23:03.515 --> 01:23:23.195
<v SPEAKER_3>When Leo, at his lowest possible moment, shows up at Sheen's house, Captain McQueen's house, and he says, go around to the back door and the humanity there, which of course is the perfect setup for, you know, which is why I, you know, you always say to me, Ken, why can't you be nicer?

01:23:23.195 --> 01:23:24.855
<v SPEAKER_3>Why are you such an asshole?

01:23:24.855 --> 01:23:30.575
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's because when people are nice, the next, what happens in the next scene, they get thrown out of a window.

01:23:32.295 --> 01:23:35.515
<v SPEAKER_4>See, two scenes later, just to be, you know.

01:23:35.515 --> 01:23:36.415
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:23:36.415 --> 01:23:38.455
<v SPEAKER_4>So that's the reason why your ground floor kind of got.

01:23:38.455 --> 01:23:40.975
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, right, yes.

01:23:40.975 --> 01:23:42.035
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's move on to music.

01:23:42.035 --> 01:23:42.995
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:23:42.995 --> 01:23:50.435
<v SPEAKER_3>Interesting that Robbie Robertson was not part of this film, as he's usually part of Marty's films.

01:23:51.875 --> 01:23:56.635
<v SPEAKER_3>A lot of Rolling Stones songs in this film, which is interesting.

01:23:56.635 --> 01:23:57.755
<v SPEAKER_3>It's tiring.

01:23:57.755 --> 01:24:10.015
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, Marty had to leave the edit of the, Marty never approved the final edit of this film because he had to leave to go direct the Rolling Stones concert film, Shine a Light, in New York.

01:24:10.015 --> 01:24:15.955
<v SPEAKER_3>He was cutting in LA, had to leave, never got to approve the final cut to go film, the Rolling Stones film.

01:24:15.955 --> 01:24:18.875
<v SPEAKER_3>So it's probably easy for him to ask for some songs.

01:24:19.995 --> 01:24:28.495
<v SPEAKER_3>So, Gimmie Shelter is in the film, which is interesting because it's the third time Marty's used Gimmie Shelter in one of his films.

01:24:28.535 --> 01:24:30.255
<v SPEAKER_3>FT., name the other two.

01:24:30.275 --> 01:24:31.995
<v SPEAKER_4>I can't.

01:24:32.515 --> 01:24:34.795
<v SPEAKER_3>It appears in Goodfellas and Casino.

01:24:34.835 --> 01:24:39.035
<v SPEAKER_4>And there are like 19 other movies in this world, I mean, in my opinion, it's tired.

01:24:39.035 --> 01:24:42.075
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:24:42.075 --> 01:24:54.275
<v SPEAKER_3>Turn It Loose, which is not used that much from Exile on Main Street, is used in the scene where Jack Nicholson hammers Leo's broken wrist with a boot.

01:24:54.275 --> 01:24:54.975
<v SPEAKER_4>Jesus.

01:24:54.975 --> 01:24:56.815
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, which had to hurt.

01:24:56.815 --> 01:25:04.075
<v SPEAKER_3>And that song is played there, but it's kind of nice for Marty because, so again, Let It Loose is from Exile on Main Street.

01:25:04.515 --> 01:25:18.075
<v SPEAKER_3>And when the package shows up at the house addressed that the Vera Farmiga intercepts from the Leo character and pulls out a CD, which is the recordings, which gives the whole thing away.

01:25:18.475 --> 01:25:22.015
<v SPEAKER_3>Guess what that CD, what case the CD is in.

01:25:22.015 --> 01:25:23.655
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, I didn't notice.

01:25:24.695 --> 01:25:26.095
<v SPEAKER_3>Exile on Main Street.

01:25:26.095 --> 01:25:28.175
<v SPEAKER_4>Two CD set, wasn't it?

01:25:28.175 --> 01:25:29.655
<v SPEAKER_4>Two LP set, wasn't it?

01:25:30.135 --> 01:25:31.855
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:25:31.855 --> 01:25:34.755
<v SPEAKER_4>I remember that record was playing in a key moment of my life.

01:25:34.755 --> 01:25:37.195
<v SPEAKER_4>Anyhow, yeah.

01:25:37.195 --> 01:25:39.295
<v SPEAKER_3>Thanks for listening to THEY SHOOT FILMS.

01:25:39.295 --> 01:25:47.695
<v SPEAKER_3>If you could give us a review, hopefully a positive review where you listen to your podcast, that would really help us out.

01:25:47.695 --> 01:25:52.515
<v SPEAKER_3>And we will see you all next time on THEY SHOOT FILMS.

01:25:52.615 --> 01:25:55.135
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm gonna say goodbye to you, FT.

01:25:55.135 --> 01:25:56.055
<v SPEAKER_3>Have a good one.

01:25:56.055 --> 01:25:57.695
<v SPEAKER_4>Farewell, Ken.

01:25:57.695 --> 01:25:58.295
<v SPEAKER_4>Fare thee well.

01:26:00.255 --> 01:26:04.595
<v SPEAKER_2>They Shoot Films is a production of Film Symposium West.

01:26:04.595 --> 01:26:06.595
<v SPEAKER_2>Produced by Anne-Marie De Palma.

01:26:06.595 --> 01:26:08.775
<v SPEAKER_2>Studio announcer, Roy Blumenfeld.