The Master

WEBVTT

00:00:05.317 --> 00:00:09.837
<v SPEAKER_2>You're listening to THEY SHOOT FILMS with Ken Mercer and FT.

00:00:09.837 --> 00:00:10.377
<v SPEAKER_2>Kosempa.

00:00:19.123 --> 00:00:22.483
<v SPEAKER_3>Hey there, everybody, and welcome back to THEY SHOOT FILMS.

00:00:22.483 --> 00:00:28.223
<v SPEAKER_3>My name is Ken Mercer, and I'm here as always with the great FT.

00:00:28.223 --> 00:00:28.823
<v SPEAKER_3>Kosempa.

00:00:28.863 --> 00:00:31.103
<v SPEAKER_3>FT., how are you today?

00:00:31.103 --> 00:00:33.303
<v SPEAKER_4>I am doing pretty well, Ken.

00:00:33.303 --> 00:00:35.383
<v SPEAKER_4>How are you?

00:00:35.383 --> 00:00:37.063
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm pretty groggy.

00:00:37.063 --> 00:00:45.003
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm, my head, my head's all, all muzzy because I was up doing research for this, this episode.

00:00:45.003 --> 00:00:45.463
<v SPEAKER_4>Hmm.

00:00:45.463 --> 00:00:46.543
<v SPEAKER_4>How long were you out?

00:00:46.943 --> 00:00:47.763
<v SPEAKER_4>How long were you up?

00:00:47.763 --> 00:00:49.643
<v SPEAKER_4>Like three in the morning?

00:00:51.023 --> 00:01:07.823
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't remember because I blacked out what I, what I was drinking a cocktail of Ronson's lighter fluid and, and Gilby's gin with some lemon squeezed in there and then filtered through a baguette.

00:01:09.023 --> 00:01:09.963
<v SPEAKER_4>Perfect.

00:01:09.963 --> 00:01:14.503
<v SPEAKER_3>Inspired by Freddie Quell's concoctions in The Master.

00:01:14.503 --> 00:01:17.363
<v SPEAKER_3>And a couple of things I have to say.

00:01:17.403 --> 00:01:23.423
<v SPEAKER_3>One, it burned my throat when I was, when I was drinking it.

00:01:24.483 --> 00:01:28.803
<v SPEAKER_3>Fortunately, I stayed away from open flames after drinking it.

00:01:28.803 --> 00:01:35.723
<v SPEAKER_3>But then, yeah, I felt, I felt really good for about, I don't know, 20 minutes.

00:01:35.723 --> 00:01:36.423
<v SPEAKER_4>Two seconds.

00:01:36.863 --> 00:01:42.143
<v SPEAKER_3>No, no, like 20 minutes, I felt probably the best I've felt in years.

00:01:42.143 --> 00:01:48.823
<v SPEAKER_3>Just invigorated, euphoric, a little twitchy.

00:01:48.823 --> 00:01:49.883
<v SPEAKER_2>Very truthful.

00:01:49.883 --> 00:01:50.463
<v SPEAKER_3>Truthful.

00:01:50.463 --> 00:01:54.823
<v SPEAKER_3>And then, and then I passed out.

00:01:54.823 --> 00:01:55.803
<v SPEAKER_4>Where did you wake up though?

00:01:55.803 --> 00:01:57.643
<v SPEAKER_4>That's a key question.

00:01:57.643 --> 00:02:03.623
<v SPEAKER_3>I woke up on a dock and I could not find my ship.

00:02:03.623 --> 00:02:04.543
<v SPEAKER_3>I lost my ship.

00:02:06.743 --> 00:02:22.203
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, that's actually from this episode, if you didn't read the titles, on Paul Thomas Anderson's film, THE MASTER, featuring Joaquin Phoenix as Freddie Quell, the ultimate cocktail meister.

00:02:22.203 --> 00:02:29.963
<v SPEAKER_3>So FT., how many times have you seen this film, Paul Thomas Anderson's 2012 film, THE MASTER?

00:02:29.963 --> 00:02:35.923
<v SPEAKER_4>I think probably totally three, but one time early on when it first came out on DVD.

00:02:35.923 --> 00:02:38.803
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, what was your reaction the first time you saw it?

00:02:38.803 --> 00:02:40.303
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, what was your reaction this time?

00:02:40.303 --> 00:02:41.283
<v SPEAKER_4>This time, yeah.

00:02:41.283 --> 00:02:42.003
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

00:02:42.003 --> 00:02:42.943
<v SPEAKER_4>It was interesting.

00:02:42.943 --> 00:02:51.223
<v SPEAKER_4>I completely forgot the whole Hawaii beginning, the post-World War II, the VJ Day stuff.

00:02:51.223 --> 00:02:57.823
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought the film began in my memory, because I didn't do processing.

00:02:57.823 --> 00:03:05.663
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought it began around that point of processing, that that's where I thought it began.

00:03:05.663 --> 00:03:08.123
<v SPEAKER_4>And so when I saw it this time, I'm like, right.

00:03:08.123 --> 00:03:17.123
<v SPEAKER_4>And so while I'm watching it, I'm going like, well, this is just a little prelude, because it gets right to the processing aboard the alethea, the boat, the yacht.

00:03:17.123 --> 00:03:21.943
<v SPEAKER_4>And no, it was a lot of important stuff happens at the beginning, you know.

00:03:21.943 --> 00:03:32.703
<v SPEAKER_3>I, it's funny that I think I've probably seen this three or four times, and I had the exact same experience.

00:03:32.863 --> 00:03:36.543
<v SPEAKER_3>I thought it started on the boat.

00:03:36.543 --> 00:03:44.563
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's interesting in the way the film is constructed, in that it's called The Master.

00:03:45.863 --> 00:03:49.943
<v SPEAKER_3>We always think of Philip Seymour Hoffman's performance.

00:03:51.723 --> 00:03:59.523
<v SPEAKER_3>But when you watch the film, as you noticed at this time, and you wonder why you had, this is Freddie's, this is Freddie's story.

00:03:59.563 --> 00:04:06.063
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not, it's not Phil, it's not Lancaster Dodd as played by Philip Seymour Hoffman's story.

00:04:06.063 --> 00:04:10.023
<v SPEAKER_3>It's, it's, it's Freddie Quell's story.

00:04:10.043 --> 00:04:11.803
<v SPEAKER_3>He is our narrator.

00:04:12.523 --> 00:04:15.183
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, we see everything through his eyes.

00:04:15.263 --> 00:04:26.523
<v SPEAKER_3>As I totaled it, although I wasn't watching carefully because I didn't start thinking about this till afterwards, I believe there's only a single scene that's not from Freddie's point of view.

00:04:26.523 --> 00:04:35.063
<v SPEAKER_3>And that is the scene when they're gathered at dinner and the family is saying, we think Freddie is working, you know, he might be a spy.

00:04:35.063 --> 00:04:37.303
<v SPEAKER_3>But other than that, Freddie is in every scene.

00:04:37.303 --> 00:04:38.383
<v SPEAKER_3>It's Freddie's journey.

00:04:38.563 --> 00:04:40.663
<v SPEAKER_3>We see everything through Freddie's eyes.

00:04:42.543 --> 00:04:48.663
<v SPEAKER_3>Which is, in a way, it's kind of like the great Gatsby.

00:04:48.663 --> 00:04:54.743
<v SPEAKER_3>Nick Carraway is the character that gives us the view into Gatsby.

00:04:54.743 --> 00:04:59.643
<v SPEAKER_3>And Freddie Quill is the one that gives us this view into Lancaster Dodd.

00:04:59.643 --> 00:05:01.063
<v SPEAKER_5>What do you do?

00:05:02.603 --> 00:05:04.863
<v SPEAKER_1>I do many, many things.

00:05:06.543 --> 00:05:11.443
<v SPEAKER_1>I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist, a theoretical philosopher.

00:05:13.363 --> 00:05:15.663
<v SPEAKER_1>But above all, I am a man.

00:05:17.343 --> 00:05:20.283
<v SPEAKER_1>Hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you.

00:05:23.643 --> 00:05:27.243
<v SPEAKER_1>Well, I'm sorry if I got out of hand last night.

00:05:27.243 --> 00:05:28.163
<v SPEAKER_6>It's cold in those...

00:05:28.163 --> 00:05:29.243
<v SPEAKER_1>Don't apologize.

00:05:29.243 --> 00:05:30.023
<v SPEAKER_1>You're a scoundrel.

00:05:33.603 --> 00:05:40.143
<v SPEAKER_1>And as a scientist in a connoisseur, I have no idea the contents of this remarkable potion.

00:05:40.143 --> 00:05:42.223
<v SPEAKER_1>What's in it?

00:05:42.223 --> 00:05:44.903
<v SPEAKER_6>Secrets.

00:05:44.903 --> 00:05:46.383
<v SPEAKER_1>Can you make more?

00:05:48.463 --> 00:05:49.903
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, not like that.

00:05:49.903 --> 00:05:52.563
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you're making something different, better.

00:05:52.563 --> 00:05:54.543
<v SPEAKER_6>You're making something special for you.

00:05:54.543 --> 00:05:56.123
<v SPEAKER_6>How do you like to feel?

00:05:57.263 --> 00:06:02.563
<v SPEAKER_1>I will give you a full reprieve from your naughtiness as a stowaway if you make it some more.

00:06:02.563 --> 00:06:06.343
<v SPEAKER_1>I must admit, I sampled it and ended up drinking it all.

00:06:09.023 --> 00:06:16.363
<v SPEAKER_3>It's problematic, though, since would you classify, FT., would you classify Freddie Quell as a reliable narrator?

00:06:19.143 --> 00:06:20.203
<v SPEAKER_4>Interesting.

00:06:20.203 --> 00:06:21.843
<v SPEAKER_4>That's a hard one.

00:06:23.743 --> 00:06:25.163
<v SPEAKER_3>I thought I was throwing you a softball there.

00:06:25.243 --> 00:06:29.623
<v SPEAKER_4>No, it's not a softball because I could see arguments both ways.

00:06:29.623 --> 00:06:34.883
<v SPEAKER_4>But ultimately, I mean, at first I said no.

00:06:34.883 --> 00:06:40.963
<v SPEAKER_4>And then I went, yes, in parts, he's a reliable narrator.

00:06:40.963 --> 00:06:49.683
<v SPEAKER_4>But I'm not so sure now because basically his booze filled unpredictabilities, you know what I mean, and all that.

00:06:49.843 --> 00:06:51.683
<v SPEAKER_4>What's your thoughts on this?

00:06:51.683 --> 00:06:58.323
<v SPEAKER_3>I would say he could clinically be classified as an unreliable narrator.

00:07:00.523 --> 00:07:17.443
<v SPEAKER_3>As you said, he's not only an alcoholic, but he's drinking all kinds of toxic chemicals, which I'm not a medical professional, but I would say they're probably not good for the brain.

00:07:17.443 --> 00:07:18.823
<v SPEAKER_4>And the kidneys.

00:07:18.823 --> 00:07:24.183
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, and the kidneys, which you know because he suffers from enuresis.

00:07:24.183 --> 00:07:25.443
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:07:25.443 --> 00:07:30.123
<v SPEAKER_3>But that also, enuresis is a symptom of PTSD.

00:07:30.243 --> 00:07:35.283
<v SPEAKER_3>And apparently is common among veterans who have PTSD.

00:07:35.283 --> 00:07:37.423
<v SPEAKER_3>So he's got PTSD.

00:07:37.443 --> 00:07:44.363
<v SPEAKER_3>He's a alcoholic, toxic chemical drinker.

00:07:44.363 --> 00:07:48.943
<v SPEAKER_3>And I would submit that he is a schizophrenic.

00:07:48.943 --> 00:07:50.063
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:07:50.223 --> 00:07:51.023
<v SPEAKER_3>You would agree?

00:07:51.023 --> 00:07:52.743
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I think so, yes.

00:07:52.743 --> 00:07:53.543
<v SPEAKER_4>I would.

00:07:53.543 --> 00:07:55.623
<v SPEAKER_3>First of all, are you...

00:07:55.623 --> 00:07:58.203
<v SPEAKER_4>Am I schooled in the diagnosis of schizophrenia?

00:07:58.203 --> 00:07:58.323
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:07:59.623 --> 00:08:04.623
<v SPEAKER_3>Are you credentialed to say that Freddie Quill is a schizophrenic?

00:08:04.623 --> 00:08:06.583
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I'm not credentialed, and I take it back.

00:08:06.583 --> 00:08:09.503
<v SPEAKER_4>He's not schizophrenic, unless you tell me why.

00:08:10.243 --> 00:08:12.423
<v SPEAKER_3>I'll tell you why.

00:08:12.603 --> 00:08:13.483
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's interesting.

00:08:13.643 --> 00:08:42.963
<v SPEAKER_3>There's an interesting conceit in this movie, which is usually an author or a director tries to give you insights into the psychology of the characters, and it's not the easiest thing to do, but this director and this writer, Paul Thomas Anderson, says, hey, let's give our character a Rorschach test on camera, which is an interesting conceit.

00:08:42.963 --> 00:08:58.283
<v SPEAKER_3>And so I would submit that he's a schizophrenic based on the Rorschach test, and it's interesting that, you know, looking at that Rorschach test, first of all, FT., have you ever taken a Rorschach test, has one ever been administered to you?

00:08:58.283 --> 00:09:00.103
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:09:00.103 --> 00:09:04.083
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, we got a problem, then, because on your job application, you said that you had passed it.

00:09:04.083 --> 00:09:04.303
<v SPEAKER_3>I lied.

00:09:04.303 --> 00:09:05.263
<v SPEAKER_3>You had passed it.

00:09:05.283 --> 00:09:07.183
<v SPEAKER_4>Just like Freddie, am I a liar sometimes?

00:09:07.183 --> 00:09:11.023
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, that's the only thing on your resume, that's the only thing.

00:09:11.023 --> 00:09:13.103
<v SPEAKER_4>That's what you liked about it, though.

00:09:13.103 --> 00:09:22.683
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, the Rorschach test, I don't know if you know this, was originally designed way back in the 1920s as a test for schizophrenia.

00:09:23.083 --> 00:09:24.883
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what it was designed for.

00:09:25.523 --> 00:09:37.683
<v SPEAKER_3>It got corrupted in the, I guess, the post-war years when psychiatrists started using it just as this kind of way to get insight into different personalities.

00:09:37.883 --> 00:09:42.063
<v SPEAKER_3>But it was originally designed as a specific test for schizophrenia.

00:09:43.663 --> 00:09:50.103
<v SPEAKER_3>And in the film, so there's 12 cards in the test, sorry, 10 cards in the test.

00:09:51.463 --> 00:09:55.003
<v SPEAKER_3>In the film, we only see Freddie react to three of them.

00:09:55.123 --> 00:09:59.083
<v SPEAKER_3>In the outtakes, we get to see more cards.

00:09:59.083 --> 00:10:03.603
<v SPEAKER_3>But there's one specific indication of schizophrenia.

00:10:03.603 --> 00:10:05.803
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you know what it is, FT.?

00:10:05.803 --> 00:10:06.183
<v SPEAKER_4>Penis.

00:10:08.223 --> 00:10:08.923
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:10:08.923 --> 00:10:09.863
<v SPEAKER_4>It is?

00:10:09.863 --> 00:10:12.063
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, I remember the answers.

00:10:12.063 --> 00:10:13.703
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, the answers were amazing.

00:10:14.463 --> 00:10:29.763
<v SPEAKER_3>The specific indication for schizophrenia in the test is that if the subject gives sexual, sees sexual images in four cards out of 10, they are clinically schizophrenic.

00:10:29.783 --> 00:10:41.103
<v SPEAKER_3>And that's the interesting game that Paul Thomas Anderson plays here, because of course, we only get to see him response to three cards, all three of which he responds to by seeing sexual images.

00:10:41.103 --> 00:10:46.923
<v SPEAKER_3>But there's another clue here, if we can dig into the specific cards, go through them individually.

00:10:46.923 --> 00:10:56.363
<v SPEAKER_3>So the first card and the cards we get to see in the movie are out of, the cards are meant to be shown to the patient, the subject in a specific order.

00:10:56.363 --> 00:10:58.563
<v SPEAKER_3>And in the movie, we see them out of order.

00:10:58.683 --> 00:11:02.703
<v SPEAKER_3>And again, I think that's because Paul Thomas Anderson deleted some of them.

00:11:02.703 --> 00:11:08.883
<v SPEAKER_3>The first card that Freddie sees is the first, so sorry, you've never been given a Rorsach test, FT.?

00:11:08.883 --> 00:11:10.743
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, I have been.

00:11:10.743 --> 00:11:12.263
<v SPEAKER_4>No, no, never, never, never.

00:11:12.263 --> 00:11:13.703
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, yeah.

00:11:13.743 --> 00:11:18.063
<v SPEAKER_4>You need a Rorsach test on me to be able to see whether or not I took one.

00:11:19.743 --> 00:11:26.663
<v SPEAKER_3>So sorry, the first card, since you're not familiar, is that Freddie sees is indeed the first card in the test.

00:11:26.803 --> 00:11:29.803
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's really just a warm-up card.

00:11:29.803 --> 00:11:37.203
<v SPEAKER_3>It's very easy to answer because if you've seen it, it looks, you know, you're going to say people, most people say bat, butterfly, Butterfly, right.

00:11:37.203 --> 00:11:40.003
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, which is exactly what it looks like.

00:11:40.003 --> 00:11:43.003
<v SPEAKER_3>And of course, Freddie's answer is Pussy.

00:11:43.023 --> 00:11:47.823
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, Pussy, which again would be not a common answer.

00:11:47.823 --> 00:11:57.463
<v SPEAKER_3>And again, strike one out of four, if you're a schizophrenic, they then in the film jumped to a block card number six.

00:11:58.603 --> 00:12:03.663
<v SPEAKER_3>And that one also, if you remember, if you remember the card, it kind of looks like a animal.

00:12:03.663 --> 00:12:07.903
<v SPEAKER_3>Most people say it's an animal hide or an animal rug or an animal skin.

00:12:07.963 --> 00:12:25.263
<v SPEAKER_3>And Freddie says it's a, it's a pussy with a cock going into it, which is strange because if you actually do kind of look at it, looking for those things, the cock is not really, it's upside, it's all, it's turned around.

00:12:26.963 --> 00:12:30.403
<v SPEAKER_4>So you have a preferred way of saying cock.

00:12:30.443 --> 00:12:32.763
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no, when you look at it, It's upside down.

00:12:32.763 --> 00:12:38.063
<v SPEAKER_3>No, the head of the cock is not going into the pussy, it's going the opposite direction.

00:12:38.063 --> 00:12:42.223
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, hermaphroditic, you're right, he should have said hermaphrodite, right.

00:12:42.223 --> 00:12:53.863
<v SPEAKER_3>But then they next go to card, a block card seven, which is, most people would say, it looks like two heads facing each other.

00:12:53.863 --> 00:12:56.523
<v SPEAKER_3>So it's a card with a lot of white space.

00:12:56.523 --> 00:13:04.123
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, the cards are printed on white, so it's just negative space in the middle, and most people look at the images.

00:13:04.123 --> 00:13:14.023
<v SPEAKER_3>But looking at the white space, which is very uncommon, so again, he's already done the three sexual things as he does on this card.

00:13:14.023 --> 00:13:22.623
<v SPEAKER_3>But people who look at the shape in the middle, the white space, it's an indication of schizophrenia, and that's what Freddie does.

00:13:22.623 --> 00:13:39.583
<v SPEAKER_3>He sees a cock, an upside down cock in the white space, ignoring the two faces, the images are, again, usually seen, most people say it's two women's heads, and so he ignores that, and again, sees this upside down cock in the white space.

00:13:41.803 --> 00:13:47.603
<v SPEAKER_3>But what's interesting about this card, card seven, is this is what's known as the mother card.

00:13:47.603 --> 00:13:52.623
<v SPEAKER_3>These are supposed to indicate how the subject feels about their mother.

00:13:52.623 --> 00:13:53.123
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:13:53.123 --> 00:14:01.983
<v SPEAKER_3>And what's interesting is, what's strange here is this is a card where a lot of subjects do say it looks like a vagina.

00:14:01.983 --> 00:14:03.963
<v SPEAKER_3>And of course, this is the card for it.

00:14:03.963 --> 00:14:08.483
<v SPEAKER_3>It doesn't say vagina, he's already said pussy for two of the cards.

00:14:08.483 --> 00:14:10.563
<v SPEAKER_3>This one, he says cock.

00:14:10.563 --> 00:14:23.003
<v SPEAKER_3>Looking at the white space in the middle, he says it's an upside down cock, which is strange because again, if I look at it, it does not, it depends how one would look at a cock, whether they're standing on their head or not.

00:14:24.203 --> 00:14:28.163
<v SPEAKER_3>But it seems right side up to me.

00:14:28.803 --> 00:14:30.103
<v SPEAKER_4>What the cock does or?

00:14:30.103 --> 00:14:31.083
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, yeah.

00:14:31.083 --> 00:14:34.663
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, yeah, I didn't dwell.

00:14:34.663 --> 00:14:36.923
<v SPEAKER_4>I guess I was scared.

00:14:36.923 --> 00:14:38.283
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:14:38.523 --> 00:14:54.943
<v SPEAKER_3>So getting back to what we're talking about, I would submit that we have a very unreliable narrator who seems to be psychotic and he is the lens through which we view this film through.

00:14:54.943 --> 00:14:56.723
<v SPEAKER_4>Can I just say one thing, though?

00:14:56.723 --> 00:14:56.863
<v SPEAKER_3>No.

00:14:56.863 --> 00:15:10.903
<v SPEAKER_4>Just let me say, you know, because somebody is psychotic or schizophrenic, doesn't mean they're by definition unreliable narrators, that it's not necessarily a consequence of the quote condition.

00:15:10.903 --> 00:15:15.083
<v SPEAKER_4>Just had to go out there for mental health month, isn't it?

00:15:15.083 --> 00:15:17.383
<v SPEAKER_4>Actually, it might be.

00:15:17.383 --> 00:15:19.303
<v SPEAKER_4>Anyhow, you hate that part, so let's move on.

00:15:20.003 --> 00:15:22.583
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, if he's not, let's get into it right now.

00:15:22.583 --> 00:15:28.143
<v SPEAKER_3>So if he's not an unreliable narrator, which I think he might be, yes, he is.

00:15:28.143 --> 00:15:43.623
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, but you're just saying, you're saying that it's kind of an equal opportunity thing for you, that if you were recruiting an unreliable narrator, you would not, or sorry, if you were recruiting narrators, you wouldn't discriminate against schizophrenics.

00:15:43.623 --> 00:15:46.303
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what you're saying, right?

00:15:46.303 --> 00:15:51.003
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm just saying that there are unreliable narrators that are not schizophrenics.

00:15:51.003 --> 00:15:51.423
<v SPEAKER_4>That's all.

00:15:51.423 --> 00:15:51.803
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, great.

00:15:51.803 --> 00:15:52.043
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:15:52.563 --> 00:15:53.303
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:53.303 --> 00:15:55.783
<v SPEAKER_4>I just thought you were connecting them and making the easy connection.

00:15:56.263 --> 00:15:57.783
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, no.

00:15:57.783 --> 00:15:59.803
<v SPEAKER_3>As I so often do.

00:15:59.803 --> 00:16:06.343
<v SPEAKER_3>By the way, I want to just say right up front here, FT., so you can grit your teeth.

00:16:06.763 --> 00:16:09.043
<v SPEAKER_3>You always get on my case when we interpret films.

00:16:09.863 --> 00:16:14.983
<v SPEAKER_3>You always try to say, Ken, there can be more than one interpretation of something.

00:16:14.983 --> 00:16:20.723
<v SPEAKER_3>I just want to say right up front, I think for The Master, there's only one way to interpret everything in this film.

00:16:20.723 --> 00:16:21.963
<v SPEAKER_3>It's crystal clear.

00:16:21.963 --> 00:16:23.103
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, what is it?

00:16:23.103 --> 00:16:23.583
<v SPEAKER_4>Quick!

00:16:23.583 --> 00:16:27.563
<v SPEAKER_3>No, that was supposed to be humor.

00:16:27.563 --> 00:16:34.123
<v SPEAKER_3>Humor, which of course is the key for the cause.

00:16:34.123 --> 00:16:34.623
<v SPEAKER_4>Animal.

00:16:34.623 --> 00:16:35.283
<v SPEAKER_3>It's all about humor.

00:16:35.283 --> 00:16:36.223
<v SPEAKER_4>Book two.

00:16:36.223 --> 00:16:37.083
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, right.

00:16:37.083 --> 00:16:53.543
<v SPEAKER_3>So what scenes do you think in the film are not reality, but Freddie's fantasies imposed on reality, as examples of him being an unreliable narrator, FT.?

00:16:53.543 --> 00:16:54.623
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:16:54.623 --> 00:16:55.283
<v SPEAKER_4>I really don't.

00:16:55.723 --> 00:17:01.283
<v SPEAKER_4>I had one idea, but what scenes do you see?

00:17:01.323 --> 00:17:12.363
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, clearly, the exhibit number one is I'll Go No More Aroving, where he sees the women as naked.

00:17:12.403 --> 00:17:14.663
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

00:17:14.683 --> 00:17:15.803
<v SPEAKER_4>And that's not metaphor?

00:17:15.803 --> 00:17:17.763
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, that's not symbolism, PT.

00:17:17.763 --> 00:17:19.603
<v SPEAKER_4>Anderson?

00:17:19.603 --> 00:17:28.283
<v SPEAKER_3>No, we're seeing, again, we're seeing it through Freddie's, Freddie's, you know, groggy, he's drunk there.

00:17:28.343 --> 00:17:29.503
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:17:29.623 --> 00:17:35.803
<v SPEAKER_3>And he sees the women as dancing around naked.

00:17:35.823 --> 00:17:37.923
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, but I took that.

00:17:38.683 --> 00:17:39.643
<v SPEAKER_3>Which is not reality.

00:17:39.643 --> 00:17:45.143
<v SPEAKER_3>So again, filtered through this unreliable narrator.

00:17:45.163 --> 00:17:49.243
<v SPEAKER_4>Wait, but it's one thing to claim that that's what he's seeing is going on.

00:17:49.243 --> 00:17:50.903
<v SPEAKER_4>It's another thing to claim that that's PT.

00:17:50.903 --> 00:17:54.463
<v SPEAKER_4>Anderson saying what he wants to see, it's wish fulfillment.

00:17:54.463 --> 00:18:00.163
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, but you're saying that this is what he really sees in his groggy, lean back state there.

00:18:00.163 --> 00:18:02.503
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, I'm not saying either.

00:18:02.643 --> 00:18:04.623
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not drawing distinction between either.

00:18:04.623 --> 00:18:06.843
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm just trying to draw a distinction.

00:18:06.843 --> 00:18:11.263
<v SPEAKER_3>We have an unreliable narrator guiding us through reality.

00:18:11.263 --> 00:18:22.083
<v SPEAKER_3>And so it becomes an issue of what's really real and what's what's a function of this person's aberrant mind, as Lancaster Dodd might say.

00:18:22.083 --> 00:18:37.403
<v SPEAKER_3>I would point to another example being, and it's interesting because a lot of these flights from reality from Freddie take place when he's watching stuff that the cause is doing, you know, processing or speeches about the cause.

00:18:37.403 --> 00:18:43.603
<v SPEAKER_3>The other one is when he's sitting there, and I think it's Laura Dern who's actually talking at this point in Philadelphia.

00:18:43.603 --> 00:18:52.543
<v SPEAKER_3>And he imagines Elizabeth, Lancaster Dodd's daughter's hand grabbing his crotch.

00:18:54.283 --> 00:18:55.583
<v SPEAKER_4>Hmm.

00:18:55.583 --> 00:18:57.563
<v SPEAKER_4>Interestingly, you're seeing it this way.

00:18:57.563 --> 00:18:58.663
<v SPEAKER_4>Wow.

00:18:58.663 --> 00:18:59.403
<v SPEAKER_3>Huh.

00:18:59.403 --> 00:19:02.643
<v SPEAKER_3>So you think you think she really did grab his crotch?

00:19:04.103 --> 00:19:04.543
<v SPEAKER_4>It wasn't.

00:19:04.543 --> 00:19:05.403
<v SPEAKER_4>It did not.

00:19:05.403 --> 00:19:09.703
<v SPEAKER_4>I did not think it was his, you know, fantasy.

00:19:09.703 --> 00:19:10.163
<v SPEAKER_3>I did.

00:19:10.163 --> 00:19:10.583
<v SPEAKER_4>I did.

00:19:10.583 --> 00:19:10.903
<v SPEAKER_4>I did.

00:19:10.903 --> 00:19:12.403
<v SPEAKER_4>I will say yes, I did.

00:19:12.403 --> 00:19:13.783
<v SPEAKER_3>You saw it as reality.

00:19:13.863 --> 00:19:26.983
<v SPEAKER_4>I saw that she was, yes, because she gave him eyes and then she says certain things at that dinner table, you know, which projected her discomfort about him gawking at her, you know, which is an easy way to deflate, you know, but interesting.

00:19:27.323 --> 00:19:30.403
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't agree with that, but you saw it that way.

00:19:30.583 --> 00:19:33.823
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think it's fine, not bizarre.

00:19:33.823 --> 00:19:49.423
<v SPEAKER_3>I think my first two or three viewings in the film, I did not see it as, you know, I thought it was real and only on really starting to delve into this did it really, when you watch it, it becomes, there's no way that, you know, it is his fantasy.

00:19:49.423 --> 00:19:56.383
<v SPEAKER_3>And again, it's clearly indicated, because we know all Freddie does is think about having sex with women.

00:19:56.383 --> 00:19:57.483
<v SPEAKER_3>But...

00:19:57.483 --> 00:20:02.203
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm going to let you go on this one, because you're saying there's some clear argument about this and you're not giving one for me.

00:20:02.203 --> 00:20:03.583
<v SPEAKER_4>But hey, okay.

00:20:03.583 --> 00:20:06.423
<v SPEAKER_3>Just, just watch that one again.

00:20:06.463 --> 00:20:07.863
<v SPEAKER_3>But one...

00:20:07.863 --> 00:20:13.943
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, here's a clear, here's a clear cut one, and then I'm going to throw one at you that I think is tough to really sort out.

00:20:13.943 --> 00:20:18.963
<v SPEAKER_3>But the easy one is the phone call, the phone call in the movie theater.

00:20:20.283 --> 00:20:24.163
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, that is an interesting one indeed.

00:20:24.163 --> 00:20:27.723
<v SPEAKER_4>And that one, I almost agree with you, almost.

00:20:27.723 --> 00:20:34.363
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no, I think that one you have to agree with me on, because a couple of points of evidence to show that you have to agree with me.

00:20:35.103 --> 00:20:36.303
<v SPEAKER_4>I have to.

00:20:36.303 --> 00:20:40.103
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, well, a couple of points, and I'll start and work up to them.

00:20:40.123 --> 00:20:45.023
<v SPEAKER_3>One, typically you are not brought phones in movie theaters.

00:20:45.023 --> 00:20:46.303
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, indeed.

00:20:46.303 --> 00:20:57.643
<v SPEAKER_3>Two, even if it was a movie theater that advertised, if it said air conditioning, extra large, fresh pop popcorn, and free phone calls.

00:20:57.683 --> 00:20:58.323
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:20:58.463 --> 00:21:05.063
<v SPEAKER_3>Even if they had that, having a 200-foot-long phone cord would be a challenge.

00:21:05.063 --> 00:21:16.863
<v SPEAKER_3>But three, the nail in the coffin, as we say, is when Freddie goes to England after what he heard in the phone call, clearly Lancaster Dodd isn't giving no indication.

00:21:16.863 --> 00:21:18.903
<v SPEAKER_3>He made that phone call and asked Freddie to come.

00:21:19.063 --> 00:21:20.543
<v SPEAKER_3>He's like, what the fuck are you doing here?

00:21:20.543 --> 00:21:21.543
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm seeing that one.

00:21:21.543 --> 00:21:22.263
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

00:21:22.303 --> 00:21:27.263
<v SPEAKER_4>Because of, he brings the cools, and that's what he's gonna do as a gift.

00:21:27.263 --> 00:21:29.103
<v SPEAKER_4>It's a funny thing though.

00:21:29.103 --> 00:21:30.663
<v SPEAKER_4>You're right, that's silly.

00:21:30.663 --> 00:21:32.263
<v SPEAKER_4>The 200 foot phone.

00:21:32.263 --> 00:21:44.483
<v SPEAKER_4>But I puzzled over this, because the one character says, his old editor says, well, the thing about The Master is, the fellow in Phoenix goes, the new book could be condensed to a three page pamphlet.

00:21:44.483 --> 00:21:48.403
<v SPEAKER_4>He says, to think about The Master, he is a true mystic.

00:21:48.463 --> 00:21:50.063
<v SPEAKER_4>And I was going like, huh.

00:21:50.223 --> 00:22:01.043
<v SPEAKER_4>And I was like, you know, maybe he just, but then I started thinking, if I was going to search for Freddie, if I was going to search for somebody, I would search for, right, it's ridiculous.

00:22:01.043 --> 00:22:06.663
<v SPEAKER_4>Find a theater in Lynn, Massachusetts, which there is a big fancy auditorium, you know.

00:22:06.663 --> 00:22:08.183
<v SPEAKER_4>And yeah, you're right.

00:22:08.183 --> 00:22:08.483
<v SPEAKER_4>You're right.

00:22:08.483 --> 00:22:10.723
<v SPEAKER_4>I can see that as being fantasy.

00:22:10.723 --> 00:22:12.363
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:22:12.363 --> 00:22:21.783
<v SPEAKER_3>But coming back to the first example, the no more roving, which I will argue that is definitely Freddie's point of view, seeing naked women.

00:22:21.783 --> 00:22:33.683
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, I guess in fairness to you, Frank, it could be as simple as that Freddie actually took a Dale Carnegie public speaking course in which he was told, you know, if you're nervous, just imagine everyone with their clothes off.

00:22:33.683 --> 00:22:35.723
<v SPEAKER_2>Maybe that's what was going on there.

00:22:35.723 --> 00:22:35.943
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:22:35.943 --> 00:22:40.863
<v SPEAKER_4>You have to give one possibility that PT was playing around there too.

00:22:40.863 --> 00:22:43.423
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, that this is what he wanted to see.

00:22:43.423 --> 00:22:44.923
<v SPEAKER_4>This is what he sees.

00:22:45.383 --> 00:22:47.683
<v SPEAKER_4>Not that he's physically seeing it.

00:22:47.683 --> 00:22:50.103
<v SPEAKER_4>So, you know, you're big on talking about metaphor.

00:22:50.103 --> 00:22:54.803
<v SPEAKER_4>This could be an indication of what's in his mind, what he wishes was going on.

00:22:54.823 --> 00:23:00.783
<v SPEAKER_4>In Freddie's mind, you know, what he wishes was going on, but you're saying it's what he's physically seeing, and there's no evidence for that.

00:23:00.783 --> 00:23:01.943
<v SPEAKER_1>No, no, no, no.

00:23:01.943 --> 00:23:02.423
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:23:02.423 --> 00:23:03.423
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm glad you clarified that.

00:23:03.423 --> 00:23:05.143
<v SPEAKER_3>I was never...

00:23:05.263 --> 00:23:07.443
<v SPEAKER_3>All I'm saying is he is our...

00:23:07.443 --> 00:23:15.063
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, so we're seeing what's in his mind, not reality, because he's an unreliable narrator.

00:23:15.063 --> 00:23:17.723
<v SPEAKER_3>It's all filtered through his point of view.

00:23:17.723 --> 00:23:26.083
<v SPEAKER_3>So, sorry, FT., so you agree that the women in I'll Go No More Roving were not physically, actually naked.

00:23:26.083 --> 00:23:26.983
<v SPEAKER_3>You're agreeing with that?

00:23:26.983 --> 00:23:29.103
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, right, so we're saying the same thing.

00:23:29.143 --> 00:23:36.483
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, we're not, but you know, I hear you, you know, because it's interesting, none of the men are naked, you know, only the women.

00:23:36.483 --> 00:23:45.043
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, yeah, it's odd for me, you know, that you have three that you admit to, or one that I says is absolutely certain.

00:23:45.043 --> 00:23:50.543
<v SPEAKER_4>But what about the rest, if it's through his point of view, what about the rest of the film, the rest of the narration?

00:23:50.543 --> 00:23:55.623
<v SPEAKER_4>Is it unreliable that the master, for example, drinks his booze?

00:23:55.623 --> 00:24:01.643
<v SPEAKER_4>Is that, can we trust Freddie as the narrator, that he's actually going to drink this hideous and praise it?

00:24:01.643 --> 00:24:03.383
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, are you going to go that far?

00:24:03.383 --> 00:24:10.143
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, that is the problem with unreliable narrators is, and you're opening a real Pandora's box there.

00:24:10.143 --> 00:24:21.403
<v SPEAKER_3>But I would say that leaves the audience in a tough position, a challenging position of having to sort out what is real and what's in Freddie's mind.

00:24:21.403 --> 00:24:30.203
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think that leads to what I, where I think Paul Thomas Anderson made a tactical mistake in his treatment of, I'll go no more roving.

00:24:30.343 --> 00:24:41.043
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think the issue is, and by the way, the first two times I saw, and I hate to admit it, the first two times I saw The Master, I thought the women really were naked.

00:24:41.663 --> 00:24:53.323
<v SPEAKER_3>I thought it was like a reference to like a Wilhelm Reich kind of turn in the causes, what the cause was doing, that it became a sexual thing.

00:24:53.323 --> 00:25:04.443
<v SPEAKER_3>And here's where I think Paul Thomas Anderson makes a terrible tactical mistake, because the next scene is the scene where Peggy comes in and jerks off.

00:25:04.503 --> 00:25:20.903
<v SPEAKER_3>Lancaster Dodd at the sink, and what she says to him, paraphrasing words, is you can do whatever you want, as long as I don't hear about it, as long as it's not with anybody I know, but you can't take the cause in this direction.

00:25:20.903 --> 00:25:31.223
<v SPEAKER_3>It didn't work for them, and it's not gonna work for us, which seems to be a reference to like the Mormons, bringing in polygamy or sexual stuff is gonna be a problem.

00:25:31.963 --> 00:25:42.083
<v SPEAKER_3>So that, to me, made it again reinforce this idea that the women really were naked and the cause was turning into some weird sex thing.

00:25:42.083 --> 00:25:53.223
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, if it was Reikian though, it would have been everybody naked, and it wouldn't have been in that kind of, it would have been in a much more therapeutic situation, being a student of Wilhelm Reich.

00:25:53.283 --> 00:25:54.703
<v SPEAKER_4>But yes.

00:25:54.703 --> 00:26:08.583
<v SPEAKER_3>But I think Paul Thomas Anderson, cutting it together that way with that writing, makes it so the audience falls, you know, like I said, I saw it twice, and I thought they really were naked.

00:26:08.583 --> 00:26:11.203
<v SPEAKER_3>What did you think of the Merkin work in that scene?

00:26:11.203 --> 00:26:11.663
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, the-

00:26:11.683 --> 00:26:12.123
<v SPEAKER_4>Beautiful.

00:26:12.123 --> 00:26:13.043
<v SPEAKER_3>I'll go no more.

00:26:13.043 --> 00:26:14.403
<v SPEAKER_4>Beautiful.

00:26:14.403 --> 00:26:15.663
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, so you're right there.

00:26:15.803 --> 00:26:17.883
<v SPEAKER_3>I remember not too long ago when we were discussing-

00:26:17.883 --> 00:26:19.503
<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't know what a Merkin was.

00:26:19.503 --> 00:26:28.823
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, and when we were discussing Billy Friedkin's film, Killer Joe, in which, who was it, the actress that had the big Merkin on?

00:26:28.843 --> 00:26:30.023
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, I forget.

00:26:31.643 --> 00:26:32.743
<v SPEAKER_3>Anyway, the lead actress-

00:26:32.743 --> 00:26:34.023
<v SPEAKER_3>Gershon, Gershon.

00:26:34.023 --> 00:26:35.103
<v SPEAKER_3>Very good, FT.

00:26:35.103 --> 00:26:41.883
<v SPEAKER_3>Gina Gershon is wearing a big Merkin, and when I brought it up then, you didn't know what a Merkin was, but now that you do, please explain to the audience.

00:26:41.943 --> 00:26:43.343
<v SPEAKER_2>I'm not going to shut up.

00:26:43.343 --> 00:26:44.303
<v SPEAKER_4>Look it up.

00:26:44.303 --> 00:26:47.083
<v SPEAKER_4>I kept on saying, like, I'm an American, you know?

00:26:47.143 --> 00:26:47.603
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:26:47.643 --> 00:26:48.063
<v SPEAKER_3>No, sorry.

00:26:48.783 --> 00:27:02.683
<v SPEAKER_3>A Merkin is basically a pubic hair wig, which clearly the actresses in that scene were wearing Merkins, almost matching Merkins.

00:27:02.683 --> 00:27:03.063
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, they were.

00:27:03.063 --> 00:27:03.723
<v SPEAKER_3>Did you notice that?

00:27:04.203 --> 00:27:07.903
<v SPEAKER_3>They almost had identical pubic hair patterns.

00:27:07.903 --> 00:27:09.863
<v SPEAKER_4>This is an educational show, man.

00:27:09.863 --> 00:27:10.243
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:27:10.243 --> 00:27:15.943
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, and my question for you is, what kind of career do you think that would be, FT.?

00:27:17.543 --> 00:27:20.003
<v SPEAKER_4>Interesting.

00:27:20.003 --> 00:27:24.403
<v SPEAKER_3>You mean being a Merkin maker would be an interesting career?

00:27:24.403 --> 00:27:30.943
<v SPEAKER_4>Like a tailor, you got to bring in people in and do measurements, and you know, yeah, it'd be certainly interesting.

00:27:30.943 --> 00:27:33.103
<v SPEAKER_4>I'm not saying this is really fantastic.

00:27:33.103 --> 00:27:37.903
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it would actually, I thought it would be a great title for a porn film.

00:27:40.083 --> 00:27:41.483
<v SPEAKER_2>They made me a Merkin?

00:27:41.823 --> 00:27:43.623
<v SPEAKER_3>No, no, the Merkin of Venice.

00:27:44.323 --> 00:27:50.123
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, Jesus, oh, oh, God, I think I got a kidney pains.

00:27:50.123 --> 00:27:52.723
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh my God, I'm gonna start holding my back.

00:27:52.723 --> 00:27:54.723
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, the Merkin of Venice.

00:27:54.723 --> 00:27:57.903
<v SPEAKER_2>Oh, Jesus, wow.

00:27:57.903 --> 00:28:05.223
<v SPEAKER_3>But anyway, I think what we've been, if I could bring us, if you would allow me to bring us back on topic, FT., without all your versions.

00:28:05.223 --> 00:28:07.583
<v SPEAKER_2>My divisions, yes, yes.

00:28:07.583 --> 00:28:10.123
<v SPEAKER_3>Merkins and porn.

00:28:10.123 --> 00:28:14.303
<v SPEAKER_3>You're like, it's like trying to do a podcast with Freddie Quell, you've got to one track mine.

00:28:14.303 --> 00:28:15.563
<v SPEAKER_4>Pussy, pussy.

00:28:15.563 --> 00:28:17.783
<v SPEAKER_4>Just taking a pussy.

00:28:18.063 --> 00:28:25.363
<v SPEAKER_3>As I said, I had to rewatch this film a couple of times to try to sort out what was real, what's not real.

00:28:25.363 --> 00:28:30.023
<v SPEAKER_3>And that brings us to the Paul Thomas Anderson problem.

00:28:31.443 --> 00:28:33.383
<v SPEAKER_4>Whether he's real or not.

00:28:33.383 --> 00:28:35.303
<v SPEAKER_4>Is that the problem here?

00:28:35.303 --> 00:28:39.443
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, because you know, it's a narrative, it's fiction, right?

00:28:39.443 --> 00:28:44.803
<v SPEAKER_4>So you know, none of it's quote real, but anyhow, but what's the Paul Thomas Anderson problem?

00:28:44.803 --> 00:28:46.143
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, it's been well taught.

00:28:46.143 --> 00:29:03.143
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, when the reviews for this film came out, and they were generally laudatory, the critics, but so many of the reviews said, well, you really have to see it two times, or don't expect to like it or understand it after one time.

00:29:03.143 --> 00:29:05.903
<v SPEAKER_3>You've got to go see it two or three times.

00:29:05.903 --> 00:29:10.643
<v SPEAKER_3>And that brings up the Paul Thomas Anderson problem, which is, is that right?

00:29:10.943 --> 00:29:20.243
<v SPEAKER_3>Should a film be made that you really need, that it only really starts to really show its qualities after multiple viewings?

00:29:20.383 --> 00:29:27.123
<v SPEAKER_3>Or should a film be made to connect and show you everything on the first viewing?

00:29:27.283 --> 00:29:33.283
<v SPEAKER_4>The way my response is that because a critic says that, doesn't mean it's the case.

00:29:33.823 --> 00:29:46.003
<v SPEAKER_4>I remember watching this film, I remember watching this film the first time, and this time it did strike me as a little slower than the first time, and I was thinking about this and I was going, why?

00:29:46.403 --> 00:30:00.283
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, there's not a complicated, I don't think there's a complicated flash, but it's not like Magnolia, which is 16, whatever narrative is going on, eight, six, four, that thing jumps around like nuts.

00:30:00.343 --> 00:30:10.543
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, there may be, but here, here to me, this, you know, this time I was going like, this is kind of like a chase movie in a weird way, where, you know, Freddie's the ticking time bomb.

00:30:10.723 --> 00:30:11.903
<v SPEAKER_3>In a very weird way.

00:30:11.963 --> 00:30:13.603
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, he's a ticking time bomb.

00:30:13.603 --> 00:30:28.443
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, so you know, something's going to happen, or you're thinking something's going to happen, you don't know what it is, when and isn't where it is, you know, but he is just so volatile, you know, but it's suppressed, you know, so I think there's an arc there that's easily, you know, I don't see it.

00:30:28.543 --> 00:30:39.383
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't, you know, if you want to, you know, because there's subtlety in the film, that you may not catch the first time, doesn't mean that you can only see the film for its full value upon multiple viewings.

00:30:40.423 --> 00:30:42.443
<v SPEAKER_4>So I think they're wrong, I think they're wrong.

00:30:42.443 --> 00:30:47.503
<v SPEAKER_3>So, and you, well, again, everybody's wrong.

00:30:47.503 --> 00:30:58.983
<v SPEAKER_3>But, so in your first viewing, you, what was your, I asked you about your reaction to reviewing it after the third time, what was your take on this film after seeing it the first time, FT.?

00:30:58.983 --> 00:31:04.363
<v SPEAKER_4>That's what I just said, that it, you know, his, his, his menace, I liked it, and I felt, I followed it.

00:31:04.363 --> 00:31:05.043
<v SPEAKER_3>You liked it, okay.

00:31:05.043 --> 00:31:12.023
<v SPEAKER_4>There were details, you know, you started wondering about, you know, Dianetics to what degree it was faithful to that, and you go, who cares?

00:31:12.023 --> 00:31:15.923
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, you know that he's riffing off of that, you know, he's playing off of that, you know.

00:31:15.923 --> 00:31:26.103
<v SPEAKER_4>So there was, you know, certain narrative things going on that, you know, weren't clear, you know, but the arc of the story, you know, want me to tell you what I think it is?

00:31:27.903 --> 00:31:37.163
<v SPEAKER_3>No, we don't have to get into that now, but you just basically said you experienced the Paul Thomas Anderson problem with Magnolia.

00:31:37.163 --> 00:31:38.023
<v SPEAKER_4>I did.

00:31:38.023 --> 00:31:38.683
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

00:31:39.723 --> 00:31:42.243
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, again, I'm not speaking of some darks.

00:31:43.603 --> 00:31:54.483
<v SPEAKER_3>It's pretty well, you know, it's pretty well accepted that Paul Thomas Anderson's films need to be, kind of require multiple viewings to really unfold.

00:31:54.583 --> 00:32:01.923
<v SPEAKER_3>And my question for you, FT., which you noticed you've refused to answer is, should films operate that way?

00:32:01.923 --> 00:32:06.603
<v SPEAKER_3>Is that good or bad for cinema, for the future of cinema?

00:32:06.603 --> 00:32:10.223
<v SPEAKER_4>It's, you know, it's part of the multiplicity of the art.

00:32:10.223 --> 00:32:12.643
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, some films are that way.

00:32:12.643 --> 00:32:14.943
<v SPEAKER_4>And thank God they are that way.

00:32:14.943 --> 00:32:16.863
<v SPEAKER_4>And some films aren't.

00:32:16.863 --> 00:32:19.683
<v SPEAKER_4>So I'm not going to answer like, should we leave it right there?

00:32:19.683 --> 00:32:20.903
<v SPEAKER_3>Should we leave it right there?

00:32:20.903 --> 00:32:21.603
<v SPEAKER_4>I think so.

00:32:21.603 --> 00:32:22.823
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, why not?

00:32:22.943 --> 00:32:28.463
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I mean, I like it that a film that, you know, catch you wanting to go back and see it again.

00:32:28.463 --> 00:32:31.463
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, so much work of going into a film, into a script.

00:32:31.463 --> 00:32:32.303
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:32.303 --> 00:32:32.963
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know what?

00:32:32.963 --> 00:32:36.743
<v SPEAKER_4>You're supposed to see it the first time and like, Oh, I tell you, PT has an Anderson.

00:32:36.743 --> 00:32:37.763
<v SPEAKER_4>That's a problem.

00:32:37.763 --> 00:32:38.863
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, bullshit.

00:32:38.863 --> 00:32:40.023
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what I thought you were going to say.

00:32:40.023 --> 00:32:42.743
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know why I had to drag that out of you, FT.

00:32:42.743 --> 00:32:43.523
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know.

00:32:43.523 --> 00:32:44.783
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, I think-

00:32:44.783 --> 00:32:46.083
<v SPEAKER_4>You didn't hypnotize me first.

00:32:46.083 --> 00:32:47.963
<v SPEAKER_4>You should have like said, what's your name?

00:32:48.003 --> 00:32:48.323
<v SPEAKER_4>FT.

00:32:48.323 --> 00:32:48.803
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, we will.

00:32:48.803 --> 00:32:50.123
<v SPEAKER_3>And just give me a second here.

00:32:51.343 --> 00:32:54.303
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it's interesting.

00:32:54.303 --> 00:33:02.803
<v SPEAKER_3>We live in a society where most people go to fast food restaurants or where people go to restaurants.

00:33:02.803 --> 00:33:07.423
<v SPEAKER_3>And I know you're not a fast food fan, but I know you've probably eaten in the past.

00:33:07.423 --> 00:33:09.483
<v SPEAKER_3>It really tastes good when you're eating it, right?

00:33:09.483 --> 00:33:14.423
<v SPEAKER_3>It's salty, it's fatty, easy to eat.

00:33:16.223 --> 00:33:18.243
<v SPEAKER_3>But why are you laughing?

00:33:19.543 --> 00:33:21.463
<v SPEAKER_2>It's salty, it's fatty.

00:33:21.463 --> 00:33:21.883
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it is.

00:33:21.943 --> 00:33:23.943
<v SPEAKER_2>It's like Homer Simpson, you know?

00:33:24.883 --> 00:33:25.603
<v SPEAKER_3>This is a fact.

00:33:25.603 --> 00:33:29.083
<v SPEAKER_3>This is the way the stuff is designed.

00:33:29.083 --> 00:33:31.543
<v SPEAKER_3>But it's not so good for, it's not so nutritious.

00:33:32.103 --> 00:33:35.783
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's the same way with movies, especially now.

00:33:35.783 --> 00:33:44.423
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, it's always been the case, but especially now where movies are designed that you see them once and you don't need to see them again.

00:33:44.423 --> 00:33:50.223
<v SPEAKER_3>And you walk out and you feel, you walk out of the theater feeling like, wow, that was a good meal.

00:33:50.223 --> 00:33:54.463
<v SPEAKER_3>And then 10 minutes later, you're hungry or sick to your stomach or whatever.

00:33:54.463 --> 00:33:56.103
<v SPEAKER_3>Or both.

00:33:56.103 --> 00:33:57.183
<v SPEAKER_3>Or both.

00:33:57.183 --> 00:34:06.963
<v SPEAKER_3>But the truly great films are the ones that you maybe don't like so much the first time, but they unfold for you after multiple viewings.

00:34:07.063 --> 00:34:12.163
<v SPEAKER_3>And at least for me, those become the films that I cherish.

00:34:12.163 --> 00:34:15.423
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, it's like Vertigo, which is a film by Alfred Hitchcock.

00:34:15.663 --> 00:34:19.643
<v SPEAKER_3>You may have heard of it.

00:34:19.643 --> 00:34:22.463
<v SPEAKER_3>I did not like that film the first time.

00:34:22.463 --> 00:34:26.243
<v SPEAKER_3>I had taken a film class where we watched every Alfred Hitchcock film.

00:34:26.243 --> 00:34:38.823
<v SPEAKER_3>And my favorites, which are no longer my favorites, like Strangers on a Train and Psycho, you know, like especially Psycho, which is so, you know, jumps out at you, the first viewing and it's like a thrill ride.

00:34:38.823 --> 00:34:41.283
<v SPEAKER_3>And Vertigo, I just always ignored.

00:34:41.283 --> 00:34:43.923
<v SPEAKER_3>And then I saw it years later and liked it a little.

00:34:44.243 --> 00:34:50.603
<v SPEAKER_3>And now I've seen it probably 10 times and I'm somebody who hates repetition, but that's a film I can watch.

00:34:50.823 --> 00:34:52.823
<v SPEAKER_3>I go back to it every year.

00:34:52.823 --> 00:34:58.323
<v SPEAKER_3>And every time I watch it, it gives me more and more and it reveals more and more of itself.

00:34:58.323 --> 00:35:01.863
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think that's the way the great films are.

00:35:01.863 --> 00:35:03.423
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay.

00:35:03.423 --> 00:35:04.683
<v SPEAKER_4>I hear you.

00:35:04.683 --> 00:35:08.263
<v SPEAKER_4>I was gonna say, Alfred Hitchcock, you mean the director of Torn Curtain?

00:35:08.323 --> 00:35:09.363
<v SPEAKER_3>Exactly.

00:35:09.363 --> 00:35:12.343
<v SPEAKER_3>But it's interesting in terms of Paul Thomas Anderson's intent.

00:35:12.703 --> 00:35:15.403
<v SPEAKER_3>He's spoken of this.

00:35:15.403 --> 00:35:19.183
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you know what Paul Thomas Anderson's favorite film is, FT.?

00:35:20.823 --> 00:35:21.663
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I don't.

00:35:21.663 --> 00:35:22.683
<v SPEAKER_4>What is it?

00:35:22.683 --> 00:35:24.683
<v SPEAKER_3>It's Avengers 2.

00:35:26.723 --> 00:35:31.603
<v SPEAKER_3>Paul Thomas Anderson's favorite film is The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

00:35:31.603 --> 00:35:32.303
<v SPEAKER_4>It's a good one.

00:35:32.363 --> 00:35:37.963
<v SPEAKER_3>And he talks about seeing that, you know, the first time he saw it, he didn't really like it that much.

00:35:37.963 --> 00:35:41.423
<v SPEAKER_3>Second time, he saw it on his seventh viewing.

00:35:41.423 --> 00:35:43.343
<v SPEAKER_3>He was like, wow, this is great.

00:35:43.343 --> 00:35:47.183
<v SPEAKER_3>And now it's his favorite film and he watches it all the time.

00:35:47.183 --> 00:35:48.783
<v SPEAKER_2>Huh.

00:35:48.823 --> 00:35:58.203
<v SPEAKER_3>FT., can I ask you what influences you see in this film, THE MASTER by Paul Thomas Anderson?

00:35:58.203 --> 00:36:01.163
<v SPEAKER_3>Who do you think the influences were?

00:36:01.163 --> 00:36:02.363
<v SPEAKER_4>That's interesting.

00:36:03.703 --> 00:36:07.123
<v SPEAKER_4>No general director comes to mind.

00:36:07.123 --> 00:36:18.603
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, besides the obvious fact that he yanks John Huston's film about PTSD, Let There Be Light, the 1947 film, which is pretty interesting.

00:36:18.603 --> 00:36:21.843
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, I think even the Rorschach stuff is in there.

00:36:23.403 --> 00:36:27.863
<v SPEAKER_4>But that's different than you have some more general, like...

00:36:28.123 --> 00:36:30.403
<v SPEAKER_3>I've never seen Let There Be Light.

00:36:30.403 --> 00:36:31.363
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, it's good.

00:36:31.363 --> 00:36:32.043
<v SPEAKER_3>It's good.

00:36:32.043 --> 00:36:33.863
<v SPEAKER_3>I wanted to try to, I just ran out of time.

00:36:33.863 --> 00:36:34.723
<v SPEAKER_3>I want to see it.

00:36:34.723 --> 00:36:38.683
<v SPEAKER_3>Apparently PTA did see it was on YouTube.

00:36:38.683 --> 00:36:39.523
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, there was a...

00:36:39.523 --> 00:36:40.663
<v SPEAKER_3>Influenced the film.

00:36:40.663 --> 00:36:49.743
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, there was a bit in there where one of the characters, one of the men, you know, talks about nostalgia, you know, and that's picked up here with, you know, what's his name?

00:36:49.743 --> 00:36:51.343
<v SPEAKER_4>Freddie says that, you know, nostalgia.

00:36:51.783 --> 00:36:55.263
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that whole first processing scene is kind of nostalgic.

00:36:55.263 --> 00:36:58.623
<v SPEAKER_4>But anyhow, back to what are you seeing as a major, like, influence?

00:36:58.623 --> 00:37:12.263
<v SPEAKER_3>Mine were just more, just more general take on Paul Thomas Anderson and that, you know, in his early films were so overtly influenced by Robert Altman and Scorsese, which I think he's got...

00:37:12.263 --> 00:37:18.023
<v SPEAKER_3>Clearly, this film does not really seem Altman-esque at all.

00:37:18.023 --> 00:37:48.023
<v SPEAKER_3>Doesn't really seem, well, it seems, you know, I think Marty is, it's funny because the, the Scorsese that I think Paul Thomas Anderson used to be influenced by the Goodfellas era, Scorsese has kind of evolved more in his later films to filmmaking more like this film, The Master, you know, I can kind of see kind of some, you know, The Master versus was the last Scorsese film we watched, FT., Killers of the Flower Moon.

00:37:49.163 --> 00:37:55.683
<v SPEAKER_3>But really, I think he, his filmmaking at the time of The Master was leaning more on Kubrick.

00:37:55.863 --> 00:37:58.463
<v SPEAKER_3>I see more of a Kubrick influence in his work.

00:37:58.463 --> 00:38:00.763
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you see that at all?

00:38:00.763 --> 00:38:04.943
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I inform this more, what do you have in mind, which Kubrick?

00:38:04.943 --> 00:38:17.823
<v SPEAKER_3>Just in terms of the, you know, the, the, the, well, this, the persi, you know, the precise, the stylization, right, production design, the, the visuals, the precision, the precision of the camera movements.

00:38:18.003 --> 00:38:18.703
<v SPEAKER_4>Interesting.

00:38:18.903 --> 00:38:23.703
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what I'm feeling is more Kubrickian, if that's, if that's a word.

00:38:23.703 --> 00:38:28.283
<v SPEAKER_3>There's a funny, there's a funny Paul Thomas Anderson, Kubrick story.

00:38:28.283 --> 00:38:29.083
<v SPEAKER_3>Have you heard it?

00:38:29.083 --> 00:38:29.943
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:38:29.943 --> 00:38:32.363
<v SPEAKER_4>Paul Thomas Anderson and Kubrick go into a bar.

00:38:32.363 --> 00:38:33.183
<v SPEAKER_3>Exactly.

00:38:33.183 --> 00:38:35.563
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, Kubrick has a chicken on its head in the bar.

00:38:36.983 --> 00:38:38.843
<v SPEAKER_4>Help me get this PT.

00:38:38.843 --> 00:38:40.003
<v SPEAKER_2>Anderson off my feet.

00:38:40.003 --> 00:38:40.963
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's not that story.

00:38:40.963 --> 00:38:49.083
<v SPEAKER_3>It's so Kubrick, Kubrick, Paul Thomas Anderson and a Jew and a walk into, no, sorry.

00:38:49.083 --> 00:39:22.763
<v SPEAKER_3>So Kubrick, sorry, Paul Thomas Anderson is a big fan of Kubrick's and since he worked with Tom Cruise, another Tom Cruise connection there after Magnolia Cruise went to work on a Kubrick film called Eyes Wide Shut and Paul Thomas Anderson finagled an invitation to the set of Eyes Wide Shut and as Paul Thomas Anderson tells it, he got to meet Kubrick and what he said was, gee, you really work with it.

00:39:22.963 --> 00:39:25.463
<v SPEAKER_3>Your crew is really pretty small.

00:39:25.463 --> 00:39:28.423
<v SPEAKER_3>And Kubrick turned to him and said, why?

00:39:28.423 --> 00:39:31.103
<v SPEAKER_3>How many people do you need to make a film?

00:39:31.103 --> 00:39:31.963
<v SPEAKER_4>Wow.

00:39:31.963 --> 00:39:32.683
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:39:32.683 --> 00:39:34.043
<v SPEAKER_4>Exactly.

00:39:34.043 --> 00:39:34.703
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:39:34.803 --> 00:39:39.543
<v SPEAKER_3>And Paul Thomas Anderson says he felt like a Hollywood asshole.

00:39:39.543 --> 00:39:41.703
<v SPEAKER_4>Because he was.

00:39:41.703 --> 00:39:43.563
<v SPEAKER_4>At that point, you know.

00:39:43.563 --> 00:39:44.403
<v SPEAKER_4>What does Stanley have?

00:39:44.403 --> 00:39:47.663
<v SPEAKER_4>Sound people, a couple of camera people, some lighting people.

00:39:47.663 --> 00:39:49.063
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah, yeah, right?

00:39:50.363 --> 00:39:51.503
<v SPEAKER_4>Shooting it fast.

00:39:51.503 --> 00:39:53.603
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, not fast, because he takes a million takes, right?

00:39:53.603 --> 00:39:56.743
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, yes, yes, he does.

00:39:56.743 --> 00:40:00.963
<v SPEAKER_3>Why don't we talk about Hollywood jerk offs?

00:40:02.003 --> 00:40:04.803
<v SPEAKER_3>Why don't we jump to some scenes?

00:40:05.863 --> 00:40:14.543
<v SPEAKER_3>Why don't we jump to, I think we already touched on it, the scene where Amy Adams, what was her character's name again?

00:40:14.543 --> 00:40:14.803
<v SPEAKER_3>Peggy?

00:40:14.803 --> 00:40:16.083
<v SPEAKER_3>Is it Peggy?

00:40:16.083 --> 00:40:17.103
<v SPEAKER_4>I think it is.

00:40:17.103 --> 00:40:18.463
<v SPEAKER_4>It's not the same in the script.

00:40:19.083 --> 00:40:20.063
<v SPEAKER_4>It's something else.

00:40:20.063 --> 00:40:28.183
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, no, in the script, I think it's Mary Sue, which is the name of Elrond Hubbard's wife, who was clearly an inspiration for the Peggy character in this film.

00:40:28.183 --> 00:40:33.563
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's jump to the scene where Peggy jerks off The Master.

00:40:35.203 --> 00:40:38.863
<v SPEAKER_3>There's gotta be a masturbation pun in there somewhere, but it's not coming to mind.

00:40:38.863 --> 00:40:40.623
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know where it is.

00:40:41.383 --> 00:40:43.943
<v SPEAKER_3>She masturbates to The Master.

00:40:44.363 --> 00:40:46.043
<v SPEAKER_3>What was your feeling about that scene, FT.?

00:40:46.043 --> 00:40:51.503
<v SPEAKER_3>And I already talked about why I thought it was problematic placed after the Goa roving merkin scene.

00:40:52.103 --> 00:40:56.003
<v SPEAKER_4>It made me want to kick a antique toilet.

00:40:56.003 --> 00:40:58.903
<v SPEAKER_4>Don't I just say it scared you?

00:40:58.903 --> 00:40:59.483
<v SPEAKER_3>It scared you?

00:40:59.503 --> 00:41:00.203
<v SPEAKER_3>It scared you?

00:41:00.303 --> 00:41:00.743
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

00:41:01.223 --> 00:41:02.163
<v SPEAKER_4>It was weird.

00:41:02.163 --> 00:41:13.903
<v SPEAKER_4>It was just, you know, all along, you see this side of who is the real power here, you know, who's the one that's absolutely serious, also absolutely serious.

00:41:14.023 --> 00:41:21.343
<v SPEAKER_4>The true believer, Amy Adams, you know, and who has the power, you know, because we see the Master is, you know, he likes to booze.

00:41:21.343 --> 00:41:23.283
<v SPEAKER_4>He likes fucking insane booze.

00:41:23.283 --> 00:41:23.583
<v SPEAKER_4>Right?

00:41:24.823 --> 00:41:38.743
<v SPEAKER_4>And you see where the Master is, you know, you're right, it's problematic, it's coming right after that, you know, the nudie scene, you know, but it's, well, you know, what's interesting there, she does a sort of processing on him.

00:41:38.743 --> 00:41:40.303
<v SPEAKER_4>Did you notice that?

00:41:40.303 --> 00:41:42.023
<v SPEAKER_5>You can do whatever you want.

00:41:44.043 --> 00:41:46.183
<v SPEAKER_5>As long as I don't find out.

00:41:47.463 --> 00:41:53.583
<v SPEAKER_5>As long as no one that I know knows about it.

00:41:54.663 --> 00:41:59.123
<v SPEAKER_5>Other than that, stop with this idea.

00:42:00.743 --> 00:42:02.423
<v SPEAKER_5>Put it back in its pants.

00:42:04.123 --> 00:42:06.403
<v SPEAKER_5>It didn't work for them and it's not going to work for you.

00:42:07.443 --> 00:42:10.823
<v SPEAKER_5>Hey, we have enough problems as it is.

00:42:10.843 --> 00:42:11.963
<v SPEAKER_5>Okay?

00:42:11.963 --> 00:42:12.823
<v SPEAKER_5>Will you come for me?

00:42:12.883 --> 00:42:13.923
<v SPEAKER_5>Oh, yes.

00:42:13.923 --> 00:42:14.743
<v SPEAKER_5>Okay, come for me.

00:42:14.743 --> 00:42:16.703
<v SPEAKER_8>You're my best behavior.

00:42:16.703 --> 00:42:17.463
<v SPEAKER_5>You come for me.

00:42:17.463 --> 00:42:18.403
<v SPEAKER_7>Yes.

00:42:18.403 --> 00:42:19.603
<v SPEAKER_8>And no more of that boy's hooch.

00:42:19.603 --> 00:42:20.723
<v SPEAKER_5>No more hooch.

00:42:20.723 --> 00:42:21.303
<v SPEAKER_7>Say it again.

00:42:22.083 --> 00:42:23.203
<v SPEAKER_5>Come for me.

00:42:24.503 --> 00:42:26.623
<v SPEAKER_7>Oh!

00:42:26.623 --> 00:42:27.903
<v SPEAKER_1>Yes.

00:42:27.903 --> 00:42:29.503
<v SPEAKER_2>Weird, man.

00:42:29.603 --> 00:42:30.923
<v SPEAKER_2>Oof.

00:42:30.923 --> 00:42:32.083
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, no, it's...

00:42:32.083 --> 00:42:41.543
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it was, I think, again, problematic, the way where it was placed in the film because it caused confusion, but I think a very powerful scene, as you said, reveals.

00:42:41.643 --> 00:42:46.723
<v SPEAKER_3>I think that's where the audience sees she's the one with the power.

00:42:46.823 --> 00:42:51.463
<v SPEAKER_3>I think up until that point, I don't think we really realize that.

00:42:51.463 --> 00:42:57.083
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, sorry, I just realized that's another scene without not told from Freddie's point of view, unless he was peeping on them.

00:42:57.603 --> 00:42:59.963
<v SPEAKER_4>But we know he was.

00:42:59.963 --> 00:43:17.383
<v SPEAKER_3>But yeah, I think it definitely shows that she was the power, I think, and it's interesting because there's kind of some alliteration metaphor, what have you there, that she literally has him in the palm of her hand, is one of the things I thought about.

00:43:18.323 --> 00:43:25.623
<v SPEAKER_3>And of course, the old thing about behind every powerful man stands a powerful woman, because she's standing behind him.

00:43:25.623 --> 00:43:29.723
<v SPEAKER_4>To the side of him, to the side of every...

00:43:29.723 --> 00:43:34.983
<v SPEAKER_3>She's really standing behind him, and don't say side because it ruins my metaphor here.

00:43:34.983 --> 00:43:43.983
<v SPEAKER_4>And you said, behind every, she literally has him in her hand, wow, you're a reductionist, you know, oh my goodness, yes.

00:43:44.203 --> 00:43:45.943
<v SPEAKER_3>I take umbrage to that, Frank.

00:43:46.703 --> 00:43:50.423
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not a reduction, it's the world that's gotten smaller.

00:43:53.223 --> 00:43:54.423
<v SPEAKER_3>To quote from Sunset Boulevard.

00:43:54.423 --> 00:43:57.543
<v SPEAKER_4>Sunset Boulevard, yes, the screens, yes.

00:43:57.603 --> 00:44:11.163
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you remember a scene in this film, which I think is the central scene of this film, and I believe it's placed dead center in terms of the timing of the film, and that's a film where the two of them are in neighboring jail cells.

00:44:11.163 --> 00:44:12.103
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you remember that scene, FT.?

00:44:12.103 --> 00:44:15.423
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, that's what I made a reference to, by I wanted to kick a toilet, yeah.

00:44:15.883 --> 00:44:16.923
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, okay, yeah, that reference.

00:44:16.923 --> 00:44:21.683
<v SPEAKER_4>That's what that was, you know, that dawned on me, you know, that, yeah, that, oh my god, yeah, what a scene.

00:44:21.683 --> 00:44:23.423
<v SPEAKER_3>I did not know that was your reference.

00:44:23.423 --> 00:44:28.463
<v SPEAKER_3>I thought it was like kind of, I've got to go drain the dragon, or I thought go kick a toilet.

00:44:28.463 --> 00:44:30.383
<v SPEAKER_3>I thought you need to go to the bathroom.

00:44:30.383 --> 00:44:37.423
<v SPEAKER_4>I was revealing myself when I hear anything about being masturbation, I want to kick a toilet.

00:44:39.023 --> 00:44:42.143
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, so that scene, what did you think about that scene, FT.?

00:44:43.343 --> 00:44:44.743
<v SPEAKER_4>Powerful, powerful, powerful.

00:44:44.743 --> 00:44:46.263
<v SPEAKER_3>Why was it powerful for you?

00:44:46.263 --> 00:44:50.243
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, because it broke down social conventions.

00:44:50.243 --> 00:45:01.923
<v SPEAKER_4>It's interesting, the Master wants to enferred all along to get him desensitized to social triggers, but here there is no way, because, and he's even trying, the Master's trying.

00:45:08.078 --> 00:45:12.518
<v SPEAKER_1>Your fear of capture and imprisonment is an implant from millions of years ago.

00:45:13.578 --> 00:45:17.938
<v SPEAKER_1>Your spirit was free, moving from body to the next body.

00:45:17.998 --> 00:45:21.018
<v SPEAKER_9>Free, free for a moment.

00:45:21.018 --> 00:45:25.038
<v SPEAKER_9>Then it was captured by an invader force bent on turning you to the darkest way.

00:45:25.038 --> 00:45:31.978
<v SPEAKER_9>You've been implanted with a push-pull mechanism that keeps you fearful of authority and destructive.

00:45:32.018 --> 00:45:36.238
<v SPEAKER_9>We are in the middle of a battle that's a trillion years in the making, and it's bigger than the both of us.

00:45:36.238 --> 00:45:38.218
<v SPEAKER_8>You're making this shit up.

00:45:38.218 --> 00:45:40.338
<v SPEAKER_4>You make this shit up.

00:45:40.338 --> 00:45:42.218
<v SPEAKER_4>You don't know what you're talking about.

00:45:42.218 --> 00:45:44.058
<v SPEAKER_1>I give you facts.

00:45:44.058 --> 00:45:46.338
<v SPEAKER_6>You don't give me facts?

00:45:46.338 --> 00:45:47.178
<v SPEAKER_6>What facts?

00:45:47.178 --> 00:45:48.778
<v SPEAKER_9>They are fucking facts!

00:45:48.778 --> 00:45:49.378
<v SPEAKER_9>What facts?

00:45:49.378 --> 00:45:50.098
<v SPEAKER_9>Fuck you!

00:45:50.458 --> 00:45:51.718
<v SPEAKER_2>Fuck you!

00:45:51.758 --> 00:45:52.238
<v SPEAKER_9>Fuck you!

00:45:52.238 --> 00:45:53.698
<v SPEAKER_9>Why don't you kick the bed some more?

00:45:53.698 --> 00:45:54.278
<v SPEAKER_9>Fuck you!

00:45:54.278 --> 00:45:56.178
<v SPEAKER_9>Fuck you, you lazy ass piece of shit!

00:45:56.178 --> 00:45:57.318
<v SPEAKER_9>Fuck you, I'm not lazy!

00:45:57.318 --> 00:45:57.818
<v SPEAKER_9>You're not done!

00:45:57.818 --> 00:45:59.038
<v SPEAKER_9>You're fucking lazy!

00:45:59.038 --> 00:46:00.058
<v SPEAKER_8>No, you make...

00:46:00.058 --> 00:46:01.138
<v SPEAKER_8>You're fucking lazy!

00:46:01.138 --> 00:46:03.218
<v SPEAKER_9>Your fucking family hates you!

00:46:08.798 --> 00:46:11.478
<v SPEAKER_4>Lovers quarrel, as it were, you know?

00:46:11.478 --> 00:46:13.718
<v SPEAKER_4>They're just screaming at each other.

00:46:13.718 --> 00:46:15.858
<v SPEAKER_4>The Master gets animal.

00:46:15.858 --> 00:46:35.378
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, no, I think, and like I said, I think it plays dead center in the film, and it has the central, the wide shot showing the two cells with them, you know, mirror images almost, of them in neighboring cells, really is a powerful image.

00:46:35.378 --> 00:46:44.098
<v SPEAKER_3>And as you brought up the animal thing, that Freddie is acting like an, or the Master chides Freddie for acting like an animal.

00:46:44.098 --> 00:46:52.278
<v SPEAKER_3>But then what's interesting, what does the Master do at the end of the scene after chiding Freddie for being an animal?

00:46:52.278 --> 00:46:53.278
<v SPEAKER_4>Takes a piss.

00:46:53.278 --> 00:46:57.818
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, he takes a piss, so he gives in to his animal urges.

00:46:58.758 --> 00:47:06.018
<v SPEAKER_3>But that image of the Master, Phil Hoffman, peeing like that, I think is very deliberate.

00:47:06.018 --> 00:47:15.158
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it's a deliberate echo of another image with a male whose back was turned to the camera with his hands on his genitals.

00:47:15.158 --> 00:47:18.358
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, yeah, I see, yeah, yep, yep, yep.

00:47:18.358 --> 00:47:19.918
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you see, what do you see?

00:47:19.918 --> 00:47:22.698
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, what you just talked about before with Amy Adams, yeah.

00:47:22.698 --> 00:47:23.798
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh no, that's not.

00:47:23.798 --> 00:47:26.398
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, or is it Freddie at the beginning?

00:47:26.778 --> 00:47:27.458
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:47:27.458 --> 00:47:28.938
<v SPEAKER_4>Wacking him into the Pacific.

00:47:28.938 --> 00:47:33.378
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, Freddie at the beginning with his back turns to camera and is jerking off to the Pacific.

00:47:33.378 --> 00:47:53.838
<v SPEAKER_3>I really feel like that is a mirror, you know, an echo of that as the Master pees with his back to the camera again, kind of linking these two men and this whole issue of whether we can escape from our animal, our animal origins or animal motivations.

00:47:54.758 --> 00:47:57.118
<v SPEAKER_3>And clearly, that's so much of the film.

00:47:57.118 --> 00:48:04.058
<v SPEAKER_3>The Master at times will call or called Freddie Quell the worst thing you can call a man.

00:48:04.058 --> 00:48:05.938
<v SPEAKER_4>Fecis eating animal.

00:48:05.938 --> 00:48:07.298
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, well that, yeah.

00:48:07.298 --> 00:48:07.738
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, he calls it-

00:48:07.738 --> 00:48:08.458
<v SPEAKER_4>Shit opening green.

00:48:08.458 --> 00:48:09.318
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, right, yeah.

00:48:09.318 --> 00:48:11.398
<v SPEAKER_3>No, a silly animal, a dirty animal.

00:48:11.418 --> 00:48:13.118
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, yes.

00:48:15.838 --> 00:48:19.078
<v SPEAKER_3>Why did Lancaster Dodd like Freddie so much?

00:48:19.078 --> 00:48:19.778
<v SPEAKER_4>Why did?

00:48:21.138 --> 00:48:25.078
<v SPEAKER_4>Because he helped, he finally find out the reason.

00:48:25.078 --> 00:48:28.898
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, there are people that he rang this bell.

00:48:28.898 --> 00:48:29.318
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you mean?

00:48:29.318 --> 00:48:31.178
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you mean he finally found this reason?

00:48:31.178 --> 00:48:31.598
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you mean?

00:48:31.598 --> 00:48:36.638
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, he claims that, you know, they were together in a past life during the 1870 siege of Paris.

00:48:36.638 --> 00:48:38.618
<v SPEAKER_4>That was the Prussian siege.

00:48:38.618 --> 00:48:40.358
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that's what he claims.

00:48:40.358 --> 00:48:41.218
<v SPEAKER_4>He feels that.

00:48:41.278 --> 00:48:46.738
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, so that's why you think he liked Freddie because of their time together.

00:48:46.738 --> 00:48:47.678
<v SPEAKER_4>No, he did not know that.

00:48:47.818 --> 00:48:50.058
<v SPEAKER_3>He said in the pigeon post.

00:48:50.058 --> 00:48:56.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Pigeon post, but you're laughing, you know, but, you know, you've never had the feeling of you've met somebody before.

00:48:56.618 --> 00:48:58.658
<v SPEAKER_4>You've never had that feeling with somebody.

00:48:58.658 --> 00:49:01.858
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, no, I went, I know I experienced that today with you.

00:49:01.858 --> 00:49:06.798
<v SPEAKER_3>And I realized it was the last podcast we did, which was The Departed, that's where I knew you from before.

00:49:06.798 --> 00:49:11.518
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh my God, you're a bit deja vu with people.

00:49:11.518 --> 00:49:12.698
<v SPEAKER_3>And that, okay.

00:49:12.698 --> 00:49:14.638
<v SPEAKER_4>So you wanna just make fun of this, go ahead.

00:49:14.638 --> 00:49:15.918
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, you know, but.

00:49:15.918 --> 00:49:18.278
<v SPEAKER_3>But would that necessarily mean you would like them?

00:49:18.278 --> 00:49:19.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Because you have deja vu.

00:49:19.898 --> 00:49:22.258
<v SPEAKER_4>That's true, that's true, but sometimes.

00:49:22.818 --> 00:49:26.698
<v SPEAKER_3>I think you're being a reductivist, not that I know what that term means, but.

00:49:26.718 --> 00:49:28.038
<v SPEAKER_4>Reductivist is the one thing.

00:49:28.038 --> 00:49:30.358
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I'm not being a reductionist, but.

00:49:30.358 --> 00:49:31.638
<v SPEAKER_4>No, why he liked him was that he.

00:49:31.638 --> 00:49:34.098
<v SPEAKER_3>I didn't say reductionist, I said reductivist.

00:49:36.178 --> 00:49:37.318
<v SPEAKER_3>You aberrant.

00:49:39.978 --> 00:49:41.138
<v SPEAKER_4>You mutant.

00:49:42.398 --> 00:49:49.918
<v SPEAKER_3>That's your answer, you think, because he knew him from another life, in the Pigeon Pose, during the coldest winter on record.

00:49:49.918 --> 00:49:52.578
<v SPEAKER_4>As they say, lost only two balloons, you know.

00:49:52.578 --> 00:49:55.898
<v SPEAKER_4>You're laughing at this, but, you know, I think there was a connection.

00:49:55.898 --> 00:49:57.698
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at you.

00:49:57.778 --> 00:50:00.178
<v SPEAKER_4>Don't stop it, man, but, you know.

00:50:00.178 --> 00:50:07.838
<v SPEAKER_4>So, it's interesting, you know, that one would ask, you know, what is the basis of any friendship, of some liking, you know, why do you like somebody?

00:50:07.838 --> 00:50:09.398
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, and, you know.

00:50:09.398 --> 00:50:14.218
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, well, you know, that's, I know what, so why do you think he liked him?

00:50:14.218 --> 00:50:19.338
<v SPEAKER_4>Because he says, you know, he emphasizes, I'm the only person that likes you, you know, right?

00:50:19.498 --> 00:50:25.418
<v SPEAKER_3>I think, I think there's a couple, not to be reductionist about it, I think there's a couple of reads I could take.

00:50:25.618 --> 00:50:37.858
<v SPEAKER_3>One, he sees in Freddie what he can't have, which is this freedom, being able to go where he wants, drink what he wants, not having to, you know, be controlled by his wife.

00:50:37.858 --> 00:50:40.618
<v SPEAKER_3>So he sees the this this freedom.

00:50:42.418 --> 00:50:55.858
<v SPEAKER_3>But then I guess the part and parcel of this, I guess I am being reductionist, what he says at the end, which is, you know, what we're all searching for, which no one achieves, is being able to serve no master.

00:50:55.858 --> 00:51:02.238
<v SPEAKER_3>And as is revealed at the end in the final scene, which we'll get to in a bit, Freddie does not serve any man.

00:51:03.738 --> 00:51:09.538
<v SPEAKER_3>He did not serve, even when he was in the Navy, he was not following orders.

00:51:09.878 --> 00:51:23.538
<v SPEAKER_3>And sorry, there's a deleted scene where apparently something serious happened in the, an incident happened in the Navy, which he's being questioned on when by officers.

00:51:23.538 --> 00:51:26.758
<v SPEAKER_3>And he literally, he's not, he can't remember the incident.

00:51:26.758 --> 00:51:32.978
<v SPEAKER_3>The only thing he can remember is pulling a knife on an officer, but cannot remember the incident.

00:51:32.978 --> 00:51:34.498
<v SPEAKER_3>And they're like, you don't remember the incident.

00:51:34.498 --> 00:51:38.898
<v SPEAKER_3>So it's clearly, but again, he doesn't follow his, he doesn't follow chain of command.

00:51:38.898 --> 00:51:40.998
<v SPEAKER_3>He doesn't follow the officers.

00:51:41.658 --> 00:51:43.078
<v SPEAKER_3>He's not going to follow the master.

00:51:44.698 --> 00:51:48.758
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, well, remember in that case, he's probably blackout drunk again.

00:51:48.758 --> 00:51:52.838
<v SPEAKER_4>Like he doesn't remember the first night on the yacht, you know, but I hear you.

00:51:53.058 --> 00:52:02.698
<v SPEAKER_4>There's plenty of references about, you know, that last poem that, you know, the master says about, you know, ends in that quote about, you follow no master.

00:52:02.698 --> 00:52:07.578
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, you can be free, go to those latitudes as the wind does, you know, yes, indeed.

00:52:07.578 --> 00:52:08.118
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:52:08.118 --> 00:52:08.398
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

00:52:08.458 --> 00:52:10.438
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

00:52:11.058 --> 00:52:14.558
<v SPEAKER_4>But does the master like him because he's psychotic?

00:52:14.558 --> 00:52:15.018
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, sorry.

00:52:15.178 --> 00:52:15.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, sorry.

00:52:15.998 --> 00:52:17.318
<v SPEAKER_3>That is another read.

00:52:17.318 --> 00:52:19.498
<v SPEAKER_3>I was trying to be reductionist about it.

00:52:20.038 --> 00:52:29.158
<v SPEAKER_3>That's the other read is what I think what the initial attraction was to Freddie was, here could be the ultimate patient.

00:52:29.158 --> 00:52:38.878
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, if he can cure Freddie, that was actually a famous turning point with Elrond Humbert with Scientology.

00:52:40.078 --> 00:52:45.838
<v SPEAKER_3>He had taken a woman and she had gone clear as the saying is in Scientology.

00:52:45.838 --> 00:52:51.698
<v SPEAKER_3>And because of that, she had incredible powers of recall and memory.

00:52:51.698 --> 00:53:03.658
<v SPEAKER_3>So at some event in LA where he brought in the press and a huge crowd to show off for amazing feats of memory, she could not even remember anything in the moment.

00:53:03.658 --> 00:53:06.418
<v SPEAKER_3>He would turn his back and say, what color is my tie?

00:53:06.418 --> 00:53:07.498
<v SPEAKER_3>And she couldn't remember it.

00:53:07.498 --> 00:53:11.258
<v SPEAKER_3>So it was a huge disaster for Scientology.

00:53:12.778 --> 00:53:18.838
<v SPEAKER_4>But getting to your point, Freddie, The Master does call him a guinea pig and protégé.

00:53:20.418 --> 00:53:24.478
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, which is funny because when I was a kid, that was the name of my guinea pig.

00:53:25.098 --> 00:53:26.338
<v SPEAKER_4>Protégé.

00:53:26.338 --> 00:53:27.718
<v SPEAKER_4>Freddie.

00:53:27.718 --> 00:53:27.998
<v SPEAKER_3>No, protégé.

00:53:27.998 --> 00:53:30.178
<v SPEAKER_4>Freddie is dead.

00:53:30.178 --> 00:53:33.798
<v SPEAKER_3>Can I ask you for something, FT.?

00:53:33.798 --> 00:53:40.858
<v SPEAKER_3>As you know, in preparing for these podcasts, I don't ask you to carry a lot of the load.

00:53:40.858 --> 00:53:43.178
<v SPEAKER_3>I ask you to do a few small tasks.

00:53:43.178 --> 00:53:45.238
<v SPEAKER_3>Your task was to make the booze.

00:53:46.058 --> 00:53:50.378
<v SPEAKER_3>Give us a book report on the split saber, the second book from The Cause.

00:53:50.698 --> 00:53:51.518
<v SPEAKER_3>What did you think of it?

00:53:53.138 --> 00:54:02.138
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, as a past editor of his work, I can tell you what the one character says, which is interesting.

00:54:02.138 --> 00:54:03.458
<v SPEAKER_3>What does the one character say?

00:54:03.458 --> 00:54:04.838
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, he says it could be reduced.

00:54:05.358 --> 00:54:07.058
<v SPEAKER_4>It's confused.

00:54:07.058 --> 00:54:09.798
<v SPEAKER_4>It could be reduced to a three-page pamphlet.

00:54:09.798 --> 00:54:17.358
<v SPEAKER_4>The fellow named Bill in Phoenix during the presentation of the split saber for Homo sapiens.

00:54:18.238 --> 00:54:22.478
<v SPEAKER_3>Can I say something about that guy who gave that review, that comment?

00:54:22.478 --> 00:54:26.178
<v SPEAKER_3>He's never going to be giving another book review again.

00:54:26.178 --> 00:54:28.358
<v SPEAKER_2>Not with Freddie around.

00:54:28.358 --> 00:54:30.778
<v SPEAKER_3>Freddie kicks the shit out of him.

00:54:31.458 --> 00:54:33.198
<v SPEAKER_4>But yet not, by the way.

00:54:33.198 --> 00:54:35.198
<v SPEAKER_4>Freddie was restrained.

00:54:35.198 --> 00:54:41.498
<v SPEAKER_4>Remember, he picks up his hat, gently puts it on the park bench, and then sits down himself.

00:54:41.498 --> 00:54:42.878
<v SPEAKER_4>He doesn't let go berserk.

00:54:44.218 --> 00:54:47.018
<v SPEAKER_4>He ceases going berserk, shall I say.

00:54:47.018 --> 00:54:52.978
<v SPEAKER_3>So the book is called The Split Saber, the long-awaited second book for The Cause.

00:54:52.978 --> 00:55:03.698
<v SPEAKER_3>And you can see the genius of Lancaster Dodd as a marketer because the dedication page of that is what, FT.?

00:55:03.698 --> 00:55:04.738
<v SPEAKER_3>The title page.

00:55:04.738 --> 00:55:05.318
<v SPEAKER_4>I forgot.

00:55:05.318 --> 00:55:06.178
<v SPEAKER_4>What is it?

00:55:06.178 --> 00:55:12.778
<v SPEAKER_3>It says, a gift, so The Split Saber, a gift to homo sapiens, which is genius.

00:55:12.778 --> 00:55:16.538
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, why limits your target audience?

00:55:17.198 --> 00:55:20.398
<v SPEAKER_3>So basically, he's like, this is for homo sapiens.

00:55:20.398 --> 00:55:23.038
<v SPEAKER_3>But, you know, it's genius because he's not narrowing his audience.

00:55:23.038 --> 00:55:24.978
<v SPEAKER_3>He's going after every homo sapien.

00:55:24.978 --> 00:55:28.538
<v SPEAKER_3>And yet, he's not going to distribute it to pet stores.

00:55:28.538 --> 00:55:32.058
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, it's just for humans only.

00:55:32.058 --> 00:55:33.558
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes.

00:55:33.558 --> 00:55:35.718
<v SPEAKER_4>Marketing genius.

00:55:35.718 --> 00:55:38.598
<v SPEAKER_3>We should move on to the ultimate scene.

00:55:38.598 --> 00:55:48.678
<v SPEAKER_3>The ultimate scene, but then there's a brief coda, but let's call it the ultimate scene where we see Freddie in flagrante delecto, as I call it.

00:55:49.358 --> 00:55:50.698
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know why I call it that.

00:55:51.678 --> 00:55:52.558
<v SPEAKER_4>Hey, honey.

00:55:52.558 --> 00:55:54.018
<v SPEAKER_2>Hey, honey.

00:55:54.018 --> 00:56:05.718
<v SPEAKER_3>No, I think it actually works because I used to like, sorry, true confession here, like Freddie, what I used to do is just take out a notebook and write wanna fuck and show it to women.

00:56:05.718 --> 00:56:08.018
<v SPEAKER_3>And it never worked.

00:56:08.358 --> 00:56:09.098
<v SPEAKER_3>It never worked.

00:56:09.098 --> 00:56:15.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Now, I take a notebook, I write, want to flagrante delecto, works 99 out of 100 times.

00:56:15.898 --> 00:56:18.938
<v SPEAKER_4>Did you use the smiley face that wasn't invented yet?

00:56:20.718 --> 00:56:27.778
<v SPEAKER_3>So anyway, we come to a scene with Freddie in flagrante delecto with a woman.

00:56:27.778 --> 00:56:29.878
<v SPEAKER_3>Frank, is that a happy ending?

00:56:29.878 --> 00:56:30.658
<v SPEAKER_3>No pun intended.

00:56:31.838 --> 00:56:33.378
<v SPEAKER_4>I think so.

00:56:33.378 --> 00:56:34.158
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

00:56:34.678 --> 00:56:35.838
<v SPEAKER_3>Why do you think so?

00:56:35.838 --> 00:56:36.298
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

00:56:36.938 --> 00:56:38.238
<v SPEAKER_4>It wasn't a sad ending.

00:56:38.238 --> 00:56:47.378
<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't feel like, you know, he was able to have sex unless it was, wait a minute, but maybe he was just, is he a reliable narrator?

00:56:48.938 --> 00:56:52.498
<v SPEAKER_4>You're hoisted on your own pitard there, buddy boy.

00:56:52.498 --> 00:57:01.598
<v SPEAKER_4>If he's a reliable narrator, then it was a loving sexual scene, you know, where he does a little bit of processing on her, by the way.

00:57:01.598 --> 00:57:01.818
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:57:01.898 --> 00:57:02.498
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it is.

00:57:02.498 --> 00:57:06.938
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it is a happy ending because of course he got what he wants of the whole film.

00:57:06.938 --> 00:57:08.678
<v SPEAKER_3>He's wanted to have sex with a woman.

00:57:08.678 --> 00:57:11.918
<v SPEAKER_3>He finally gets to have sex with a woman.

00:57:11.918 --> 00:57:14.278
<v SPEAKER_3>What color was the woman's hair, FT.?

00:57:14.278 --> 00:57:16.598
<v SPEAKER_4>I dream of jean, I don't know.

00:57:16.598 --> 00:57:17.598
<v SPEAKER_3>Red.

00:57:17.598 --> 00:57:21.638
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's interesting because, yeah, there's a procession of red.

00:57:21.638 --> 00:57:22.918
<v SPEAKER_3>So Doris has red hair.

00:57:22.978 --> 00:57:27.798
<v SPEAKER_3>All the women he's less after, in one way or another, have red hair in this film.

00:57:27.798 --> 00:57:34.438
<v SPEAKER_3>Doris, the shop girl, the shop model, Peggy, Elizabeth.

00:57:36.678 --> 00:57:39.518
<v SPEAKER_3>Red hair is actually somewhat rare.

00:57:39.518 --> 00:57:42.398
<v SPEAKER_3>And so to have so many redheads is a deliberate thing.

00:57:42.398 --> 00:57:45.158
<v SPEAKER_3>So he's having sex with a redheaded woman.

00:57:45.698 --> 00:57:49.178
<v SPEAKER_4>Isn't this a flashback to another podcast where you're the redheaded?

00:57:49.178 --> 00:57:49.578
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:57:49.578 --> 00:57:51.918
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's a running theme of the podcast.

00:57:53.538 --> 00:57:55.538
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, if you had red hair?

00:57:55.538 --> 00:57:58.398
<v SPEAKER_3>So basically we almost come full circle here.

00:57:58.398 --> 00:58:05.278
<v SPEAKER_3>So the first time, one of the first times we see Freddie, he's humping the sand woman and then hugging the sand woman, sleeping with it.

00:58:05.278 --> 00:58:10.938
<v SPEAKER_3>So all he's wanted is to have sex with a woman and now finally he gets to have sex with a woman.

00:58:10.938 --> 00:58:13.278
<v SPEAKER_3>It's a redheaded woman.

00:58:14.018 --> 00:58:26.898
<v SPEAKER_3>If I had written this scene instead of Paul Thomas Anderson or if I had been called in as a script doctor, I would have made one change to the scene, which I think would have made it probably one of the greatest films of all time had I been called in.

00:58:27.918 --> 00:58:28.438
<v SPEAKER_4>Ready?

00:58:28.438 --> 00:58:34.438
<v SPEAKER_4>What is the change you would make to this film that would have made it one of the greatest films of all time?

00:58:34.438 --> 00:58:36.718
<v SPEAKER_3>I would have named that woman Sandy.

00:58:39.838 --> 00:58:40.758
<v SPEAKER_3>It would have been perfect.

00:58:41.478 --> 00:58:43.798
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, my God.

00:58:43.798 --> 00:58:46.298
<v SPEAKER_5>Sandy.

00:58:46.298 --> 00:58:54.098
<v SPEAKER_3>So, in the scene, we get the final spoken line.

00:58:54.098 --> 00:58:55.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you remember what it was, FT.?

00:58:55.758 --> 00:58:56.658
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't.

00:58:56.658 --> 00:58:57.878
<v SPEAKER_4>I think I said it before.

00:58:57.878 --> 00:58:59.458
<v SPEAKER_4>It's like, I hope not.

00:58:59.458 --> 00:59:00.358
<v SPEAKER_3>Nope.

00:59:00.578 --> 00:59:01.678
<v SPEAKER_3>Incorrect.

00:59:01.678 --> 00:59:02.738
<v SPEAKER_4>Finally said.

00:59:02.858 --> 00:59:05.638
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't have it written down, but I believe that.

00:59:05.638 --> 00:59:06.538
<v SPEAKER_3>Wait, hold on.

00:59:07.038 --> 00:59:08.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Do you know what the final line is?

00:59:08.618 --> 00:59:09.258
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't have it.

00:59:09.478 --> 00:59:10.178
<v SPEAKER_3>I've written it down.

00:59:11.858 --> 00:59:13.838
<v SPEAKER_3>The line is, stick it back in.

00:59:13.838 --> 00:59:15.298
<v SPEAKER_3>It fell out.

00:59:16.338 --> 00:59:17.478
<v SPEAKER_4>That's the final line?

00:59:17.478 --> 00:59:20.258
<v SPEAKER_3>That's the final line of this motion picture.

00:59:21.498 --> 00:59:23.098
<v SPEAKER_3>I believe.

00:59:23.098 --> 00:59:28.138
<v SPEAKER_3>A couple of shows ago, remember we did the American Film Institute's greatest film lines of all time?

00:59:28.138 --> 00:59:28.918
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

00:59:28.918 --> 00:59:30.918
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you remember what number one was?

00:59:32.638 --> 00:59:33.178
<v SPEAKER_3>You guessed it.

00:59:33.178 --> 00:59:34.538
<v SPEAKER_4>The Godfather, wasn't it?

00:59:34.538 --> 00:59:35.978
<v SPEAKER_3>No.

00:59:35.978 --> 00:59:37.478
<v SPEAKER_3>A couple of shows ago, you got it right.

00:59:37.518 --> 00:59:38.818
<v SPEAKER_3>It was, frankly, my dear.

00:59:38.818 --> 00:59:39.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Frankly, my dear.

00:59:39.618 --> 00:59:40.718
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, yes, yes.

00:59:40.718 --> 00:59:48.098
<v SPEAKER_3>My prediction within two years, that will be bumped by, it fell out, stick it back in.

00:59:48.098 --> 00:59:49.618
<v SPEAKER_4>It should be.

00:59:49.618 --> 00:59:52.538
<v SPEAKER_4>Dear, what is this, the British Film Institute?

00:59:52.538 --> 00:59:55.658
<v SPEAKER_3>No, American Film Institute, yeah.

00:59:56.778 --> 01:00:00.078
<v SPEAKER_3>That line was improvised by Joaquin Phoenix.

01:00:02.678 --> 01:00:15.078
<v SPEAKER_3>And Paul Thomas Anderson is like perfect, but what's interesting is it feels so Paul Thomas Anderson because, do you remember the last line to There Will Be Blood?

01:00:15.238 --> 01:00:18.858
<v SPEAKER_3>The film that preceded this one in his filmography.

01:00:18.858 --> 01:00:19.998
<v SPEAKER_4>I do not.

01:00:19.998 --> 01:00:25.318
<v SPEAKER_3>Spoken by Daniel Plainview as played by Daniel Day-Lewis.

01:00:25.318 --> 01:00:26.818
<v SPEAKER_4>I do not.

01:00:26.818 --> 01:00:27.878
<v SPEAKER_3>Stick it back in.

01:00:27.878 --> 01:00:29.578
<v SPEAKER_3>It fell out.

01:00:30.138 --> 01:00:31.258
<v SPEAKER_3>No.

01:00:31.258 --> 01:00:35.158
<v SPEAKER_3>Plainview is this big film with all the style.

01:00:35.158 --> 01:00:39.958
<v SPEAKER_3>The last line is he says, I'm finished.

01:00:39.958 --> 01:00:41.458
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, right.

01:00:41.458 --> 01:00:51.318
<v SPEAKER_3>This feels very similar to that as the big ending line to the film is, in one it's, I'm finished and this one it fell out, stick it back in.

01:00:51.318 --> 01:00:54.458
<v SPEAKER_3>Boom, we're cut.

01:00:54.518 --> 01:00:55.118
<v SPEAKER_4>Interesting.

01:00:55.118 --> 01:00:59.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, that is improvised because I'm looking at the script, which very...

01:00:59.618 --> 01:01:00.898
<v SPEAKER_3>What's the final line in the script?

01:01:01.158 --> 01:01:04.138
<v SPEAKER_4>It's the Freddie says, maybe this isn't your only life.

01:01:04.138 --> 01:01:05.078
<v SPEAKER_4>It's what I said.

01:01:05.078 --> 01:01:10.458
<v SPEAKER_4>And Wynn says, she says here, I don't think it is.

01:01:10.458 --> 01:01:13.318
<v SPEAKER_4>Whereas in the movie, she says, I hope not.

01:01:13.318 --> 01:01:14.518
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, which is better.

01:01:14.518 --> 01:01:15.438
<v SPEAKER_4>Which is better.

01:01:15.438 --> 01:01:17.558
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:01:17.658 --> 01:01:25.698
<v SPEAKER_3>So then we cut to a coda, Yeah, as the musicians like to say, which we're back to the sand woman.

01:01:25.698 --> 01:01:28.038
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, which, yeah.

01:01:28.038 --> 01:01:30.058
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's not just the sand woman.

01:01:30.058 --> 01:01:31.458
<v SPEAKER_3>There's a song.

01:01:32.498 --> 01:01:34.278
<v SPEAKER_3>What is the song, FT.?

01:01:34.278 --> 01:01:36.238
<v SPEAKER_4>I forget, which one is the song there?

01:01:36.238 --> 01:01:42.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, it's important because it's the, he's back with the sand woman and the song is Change Partners.

01:01:42.498 --> 01:01:43.478
<v SPEAKER_4>Get out of here, is it?

01:01:43.478 --> 01:01:44.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Seriously, yeah.

01:01:44.498 --> 01:01:45.578
<v SPEAKER_4>How about that?

01:01:45.578 --> 01:01:46.118
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:01:46.118 --> 01:01:46.318
<v SPEAKER_4>Huh.

01:01:47.898 --> 01:01:50.238
<v SPEAKER_3>Anyway, let's get to acting.

01:01:50.238 --> 01:01:55.418
<v SPEAKER_3>Philip Seymour Hoffman, as you like to call him, FT., was in this film.

01:01:55.858 --> 01:01:57.538
<v SPEAKER_3>What did you think of his performance?

01:01:57.538 --> 01:01:58.718
<v SPEAKER_4>Excellent.

01:01:58.718 --> 01:02:14.118
<v SPEAKER_4>A wide range of emotions, being the officious cult leader, and then so sensitive, the early processing scenes where he really feels he's an empath.

01:02:15.998 --> 01:02:28.178
<v SPEAKER_4>He's empathetic, and then he can, I really believe him when he was thanking people for their input, although it didn't matter when the family tells him they don't trust Freddie.

01:02:28.178 --> 01:02:30.238
<v SPEAKER_4>His work was in the jail.

01:02:31.958 --> 01:02:33.718
<v SPEAKER_4>It was great.

01:02:33.718 --> 01:02:41.898
<v SPEAKER_4>It was nice to see him not as the namby-pamby he was in Boogie Nights, and the nurse and a mild-mannered fellow there.

01:02:42.258 --> 01:02:44.318
<v SPEAKER_4>It was nice to see him in a position of power here.

01:02:45.058 --> 01:02:46.098
<v SPEAKER_4>He pulled it off.

01:02:46.098 --> 01:02:48.438
<v SPEAKER_4>And Capote, I mean, he's a great actor.

01:02:48.438 --> 01:02:49.378
<v SPEAKER_4>Jesus.

01:02:49.378 --> 01:02:49.778
<v SPEAKER_4>Both of them.

01:02:50.498 --> 01:02:55.898
<v SPEAKER_3>I think what you've just described is what we call in the acting trades, range.

01:02:57.118 --> 01:02:59.818
<v SPEAKER_3>He certainly demonstrated that in his career.

01:02:59.818 --> 01:03:10.278
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know how old he was in this film, but I think he was much younger than you would have assumed he could playing this role where he came off as older.

01:03:11.858 --> 01:03:18.838
<v SPEAKER_3>The use of his voice, his diction and enunciation was phenomenal.

01:03:19.078 --> 01:03:34.938
<v SPEAKER_3>I got the sense that he was kind of listening to a lot of Orson or watching a lot of Orson Welles in terms of the way he was enunciating, which was again so key to this character he was playing.

01:03:35.318 --> 01:03:44.018
<v SPEAKER_3>The Lancaster Dodd character, especially when he's standing in living rooms with dowagers, as we sometimes call them.

01:03:44.018 --> 01:03:45.318
<v SPEAKER_4>On the show.

01:03:46.578 --> 01:03:59.318
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, his diction and enunciate, that oratorian, if that's a word, enunciation and diction was perfect.

01:03:59.318 --> 01:04:03.278
<v SPEAKER_3>Pigfuck, when he's challenged by Mr.

01:04:03.278 --> 01:04:11.278
<v SPEAKER_3>Moore at that event, and he loses his temper and calls him Pigfuck, was improvised.

01:04:11.278 --> 01:04:14.338
<v SPEAKER_6>Time travel does not frighten me, sir, because it's not possible.

01:04:14.338 --> 01:04:17.598
<v SPEAKER_6>What does frighten me is the possibility of some poor soul in leukemia coming to you.

01:04:17.598 --> 01:04:22.058
<v SPEAKER_9>Oh, there are dangers in traveling in and out of time, as we understand it.

01:04:22.058 --> 01:04:23.918
<v SPEAKER_9>But it's not unlike traveling down a river, you see.

01:04:23.918 --> 01:04:28.418
<v SPEAKER_9>You traveled down the river, round the bend, look back, and you cannot see around the bend, can you?

01:04:28.418 --> 01:04:31.378
<v SPEAKER_9>But that does not mean it is not there, does it?

01:04:31.378 --> 01:04:38.558
<v SPEAKER_9>But certain clubs would like us to think that a truth, I say truth, uncovered should stay hidden.

01:04:38.558 --> 01:04:42.978
<v SPEAKER_6>I belong to no club, and if you are unwilling to allow any discussion…

01:04:42.978 --> 01:04:46.418
<v SPEAKER_9>No, this isn't a discussion, it's a grilling.

01:04:46.418 --> 01:04:49.858
<v SPEAKER_9>There's nothing I can do for you, if your mind has been made up.

01:04:49.858 --> 01:04:53.498
<v SPEAKER_6>I'm sorry you are unwilling to defend your beliefs in any kind of rational way.

01:04:53.958 --> 01:04:58.678
<v SPEAKER_9>If you already know the answers to your questions, then why ask, pig fuck?

01:04:58.678 --> 01:05:02.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Curious bit of synchronicity here, as we keep having on this podcast.

01:05:02.498 --> 01:05:05.278
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you remember the Chinatown podcast, FT.?

01:05:05.278 --> 01:05:06.058
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

01:05:06.058 --> 01:05:07.038
<v SPEAKER_4>Refresh my memory.

01:05:07.878 --> 01:05:09.098
<v SPEAKER_4>We just did it.

01:05:09.098 --> 01:05:16.938
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, in that Chinatown podcast, there was the story about Roman Polanski yanking out Faye Dunaway's hair.

01:05:16.938 --> 01:05:17.338
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, the hair.

01:05:17.338 --> 01:05:17.798
<v SPEAKER_3>Remember that?

01:05:17.798 --> 01:05:18.598
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, yeah.

01:05:19.038 --> 01:05:39.138
<v SPEAKER_3>So apparently, strangely enough, Paul Thomas Anderson plucked out Phil Hoffman's hair, which elicited pigfuck, and then Paul Thomas Anderson liked it so much, he kind of reshot the scene, or restaged the scene, so the spontaneous pigfuck would play, you know, he could cut and show the room of people.

01:05:39.138 --> 01:05:39.818
<v SPEAKER_4>Interesting.

01:05:39.818 --> 01:05:46.218
<v SPEAKER_4>Even though, you know, the script shows three other versions of pigfuck, not pigfuck, but interesting.

01:05:46.218 --> 01:05:46.778
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:05:46.778 --> 01:05:49.758
<v SPEAKER_3>So you're saying pigfuck was in the script?

01:05:49.758 --> 01:05:53.698
<v SPEAKER_4>No, no, but I read earlier what was in the script.

01:05:53.718 --> 01:05:56.858
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, it was three of them, three insults to the Mr.

01:05:56.858 --> 01:05:57.018
<v SPEAKER_4>Moore.

01:05:57.018 --> 01:05:58.558
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, but never pigfuck.

01:05:58.558 --> 01:06:00.758
<v SPEAKER_4>No, no, that was unique.

01:06:00.758 --> 01:06:14.098
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, if pigfuck was in the script, that would then burst the whole bubble of improvisation, which could have, you know, you read a lot of shit online, so you might have, but if it wasn't in the script, let's say it was improvised, that was true.

01:06:14.098 --> 01:06:17.938
<v SPEAKER_3>Freddie Quell was played by Joaquin Phoenix.

01:06:17.938 --> 01:06:18.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Your thoughts?

01:06:18.758 --> 01:06:19.958
<v SPEAKER_4>Range, range, range.

01:06:19.958 --> 01:06:21.378
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, you're gonna use your word range.

01:06:21.598 --> 01:06:25.638
<v SPEAKER_4>My God, my God, I was just amazed.

01:06:25.638 --> 01:06:26.378
<v SPEAKER_3>Why do you use range?

01:06:26.378 --> 01:06:27.478
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, just from other films.

01:06:27.478 --> 01:06:29.338
<v SPEAKER_4>I mean, he was so believable.

01:06:30.478 --> 01:06:35.778
<v SPEAKER_4>I knew, he reminded me of somebody from the West Pennsylvania.

01:06:35.778 --> 01:06:38.178
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, I was gonna say whatever actor.

01:06:38.178 --> 01:06:41.938
<v SPEAKER_4>No, a person that was...

01:06:42.318 --> 01:06:43.578
<v SPEAKER_3>Why don't you call out that person's name?

01:06:43.718 --> 01:06:46.038
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm sure it'll be relevant to our audience.

01:06:47.018 --> 01:06:47.898
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I know.

01:06:47.898 --> 01:06:53.338
<v SPEAKER_4>The slouch and the gate, that wide walking gate, you know, with the feet down.

01:06:53.338 --> 01:06:59.638
<v SPEAKER_4>And somebody you would look at and say, there's a disturbance there, you know.

01:06:59.638 --> 01:07:03.058
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, Joaquin just blew me away in this film.

01:07:03.058 --> 01:07:12.718
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, I like the work, particularly when he goes, whether it's real or not, where he visits, what's her name?

01:07:12.718 --> 01:07:13.638
<v SPEAKER_4>Doris Day's mother.

01:07:14.358 --> 01:07:18.318
<v SPEAKER_4>That scene back in Lynn, you know, where he seems to be a little more in control.

01:07:18.318 --> 01:07:20.258
<v SPEAKER_3>Doris Day is her married name, by the way.

01:07:20.258 --> 01:07:21.238
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, exactly.

01:07:21.238 --> 01:07:29.978
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, yeah, just he seems to be under control, but it's there, boy, that boiling, you know, that seething, you know, interesting.

01:07:29.978 --> 01:07:31.218
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I loved his work.

01:07:31.218 --> 01:07:32.178
<v SPEAKER_4>It was great.

01:07:32.178 --> 01:07:33.878
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, what an actor.

01:07:34.118 --> 01:07:36.858
<v SPEAKER_3>When I was trying to interrupt you before, it was because you said-

01:07:36.858 --> 01:07:37.938
<v SPEAKER_3>For a joke.

01:07:38.318 --> 01:07:40.138
<v SPEAKER_3>Reminds you of somebody.

01:07:40.138 --> 01:07:47.238
<v SPEAKER_3>Is there an actor who he reminds you of, particularly in the look of his face in this film?

01:07:47.238 --> 01:07:48.518
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

01:07:48.518 --> 01:07:55.318
<v SPEAKER_3>No, no, you don't get Montgomery, Montgomery Clift after the car accident?

01:07:55.318 --> 01:07:56.418
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

01:07:56.418 --> 01:07:56.778
<v SPEAKER_3>Really?

01:07:56.778 --> 01:07:57.118
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay.

01:07:57.118 --> 01:07:57.578
<v SPEAKER_3>I was getting-

01:07:57.578 --> 01:07:59.638
<v SPEAKER_4>You mean in the misfits, that period?

01:07:59.638 --> 01:08:03.738
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not sure, but after, after the car crash, after his face-

01:08:03.738 --> 01:08:04.498
<v SPEAKER_4>That was misfits.

01:08:04.498 --> 01:08:04.818
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:08:04.818 --> 01:08:05.078
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:08:05.078 --> 01:08:06.018
<v SPEAKER_4>He's in pain.

01:08:06.018 --> 01:08:14.358
<v SPEAKER_3>So do you think Joaquin Phoenix had any biographical, you know, any real life experiences he might draw on for this role?

01:08:14.358 --> 01:08:14.978
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't know.

01:08:14.978 --> 01:08:15.578
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you?

01:08:15.578 --> 01:08:15.958
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't know.

01:08:16.418 --> 01:08:18.338
<v SPEAKER_3>If I knew, why would I ask you?

01:08:18.338 --> 01:08:19.438
<v SPEAKER_4>Because you always do.

01:08:19.438 --> 01:08:20.298
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:08:20.298 --> 01:08:20.978
<v SPEAKER_4>Physical issues.

01:08:21.378 --> 01:08:23.578
<v SPEAKER_3>His parent, what were his physical issues?

01:08:23.578 --> 01:08:24.638
<v SPEAKER_4>Bad shoulder, apparently.

01:08:24.638 --> 01:08:27.118
<v SPEAKER_4>A really bad shoulder all along.

01:08:27.118 --> 01:08:31.958
<v SPEAKER_3>But also most notably the semi-cleft palate he has.

01:08:32.498 --> 01:08:33.598
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:08:33.598 --> 01:08:34.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:08:34.758 --> 01:08:35.838
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, you brought up the physical.

01:08:35.838 --> 01:08:40.858
<v SPEAKER_4>Relevant physical things like his gait, the way his shoulders all fucked up.

01:08:40.858 --> 01:08:42.298
<v SPEAKER_4>But what in his life?

01:08:42.298 --> 01:08:44.018
<v SPEAKER_4>You were going to say something about his parents?

01:08:44.018 --> 01:08:44.278
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:08:44.278 --> 01:08:46.518
<v SPEAKER_3>His parents were in a cult.

01:08:47.098 --> 01:08:51.498
<v SPEAKER_3>He was a child in a cult called Children of God.

01:08:51.498 --> 01:08:53.918
<v SPEAKER_3>Up to the time he was three.

01:08:53.978 --> 01:08:54.638
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:08:54.638 --> 01:08:55.898
<v SPEAKER_4>Wow.

01:08:55.898 --> 01:08:57.638
<v SPEAKER_4>And River was his brother.

01:08:57.638 --> 01:08:59.378
<v SPEAKER_3>And sorry, we just need to say these.

01:08:59.378 --> 01:09:01.458
<v SPEAKER_3>We don't want to be sued or killed.

01:09:01.458 --> 01:09:03.678
<v SPEAKER_3>Scientology is not a cult.

01:09:03.918 --> 01:09:06.198
<v SPEAKER_3>We didn't mean to imply that.

01:09:06.198 --> 01:09:08.038
<v SPEAKER_4>Which one do you not want to be first?

01:09:08.038 --> 01:09:09.938
<v SPEAKER_4>Killed or sued?

01:09:11.378 --> 01:09:11.658
<v SPEAKER_2>Ken?

01:09:12.158 --> 01:09:15.758
<v SPEAKER_3>I would say I would not want to be sued first.

01:09:15.758 --> 01:09:17.658
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't want to be killed for being sued.

01:09:19.998 --> 01:09:35.398
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, so I think there was a problem for me with Joaquin in that he is already I think a mumbler and he decided to have plates installed in his mouth to help him with the clenched lip thing.

01:09:35.878 --> 01:09:40.138
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it was two plates and then he used rubber bands to keep his mouth clenched.

01:09:41.518 --> 01:09:47.498
<v SPEAKER_3>Which I don't think was a great move because he's already kind of a mumbler and it caused problems.

01:09:47.498 --> 01:09:56.518
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, I want you to answer honestly here FT and there's no, there's no, there's only right answers here.

01:09:57.218 --> 01:10:04.358
<v SPEAKER_3>His opening lines where he's describing how to deal with crabs, were you able to understand that?

01:10:04.358 --> 01:10:10.098
<v SPEAKER_4>Actually, I was able to understand that but I do hear what you're saying later on because it's interesting.

01:10:10.098 --> 01:10:11.438
<v SPEAKER_3>So if you did understand...

01:10:11.438 --> 01:10:14.318
<v SPEAKER_4>I put sometimes on, I put the closed captions on sometimes.

01:10:14.318 --> 01:10:14.618
<v SPEAKER_4>I did.

01:10:15.838 --> 01:10:18.938
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, so did you put the closed captions on for the crabs?

01:10:18.938 --> 01:10:22.358
<v SPEAKER_4>No, because I know you'd like one testicle on fire.

01:10:22.358 --> 01:10:22.598
<v SPEAKER_3>What?

01:10:22.598 --> 01:10:28.358
<v SPEAKER_3>No, if you really could understand it, take us through the whole methodology for dealing with crabs.

01:10:28.358 --> 01:10:29.278
<v SPEAKER_3>Go ahead.

01:10:29.278 --> 01:10:36.198
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought you let your second testicle on fire and all the crabs go, then you have an ice pick and you have...

01:10:36.198 --> 01:10:37.238
<v SPEAKER_3>No, no, no.

01:10:37.238 --> 01:10:39.138
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, I'm so woefully wrong.

01:10:39.138 --> 01:10:41.818
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, so you obviously couldn't hear what he said.

01:10:41.818 --> 01:10:42.318
<v SPEAKER_4>What did he say?

01:10:43.338 --> 01:10:44.578
<v SPEAKER_3>He said, first you shave...

01:10:44.978 --> 01:10:46.618
<v SPEAKER_3>Here's how you get rid of crabs.

01:10:47.478 --> 01:10:49.458
<v SPEAKER_3>You shave one of your testicles.

01:10:49.458 --> 01:10:50.438
<v SPEAKER_4>Right.

01:10:50.438 --> 01:10:53.198
<v SPEAKER_3>All the crabs then migrate to the other testicle.

01:10:53.198 --> 01:10:54.398
<v SPEAKER_4>Right, right, right.

01:10:54.418 --> 01:10:55.278
<v SPEAKER_3>So what do you do?

01:10:55.278 --> 01:10:57.198
<v SPEAKER_3>You light that testicle on fire.

01:10:57.198 --> 01:10:57.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Naturally.

01:10:58.638 --> 01:11:02.938
<v SPEAKER_3>And then what do you do when the crabs scurry out of the fire, firing the testicle?

01:11:02.938 --> 01:11:04.258
<v SPEAKER_4>That's naturally.

01:11:04.258 --> 01:11:05.638
<v SPEAKER_4>You have an ice pick in your hand.

01:11:05.638 --> 01:11:07.198
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, yes, you stab them.

01:11:07.198 --> 01:11:07.558
<v SPEAKER_3>You stab them.

01:11:07.558 --> 01:11:09.018
<v SPEAKER_4>Each one of them.

01:11:09.078 --> 01:11:10.218
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:11:10.218 --> 01:11:11.278
<v SPEAKER_2>Crabs.

01:11:11.718 --> 01:11:15.018
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm sorry, I feel bad joking around.

01:11:15.018 --> 01:11:21.158
<v SPEAKER_3>I shouldn't have joked around because it's not a crab thing, but I had a relative who died in a testicle fire.

01:11:22.358 --> 01:11:24.318
<v SPEAKER_3>Fleeing a testicle fire.

01:11:24.318 --> 01:11:30.418
<v SPEAKER_4>A flaming testicle fire sounds like a band in San Francisco.

01:11:32.318 --> 01:11:33.658
<v SPEAKER_3>Are we done with Joaquin Phoenix?

01:11:33.658 --> 01:11:34.318
<v SPEAKER_3>I think we should be.

01:11:34.318 --> 01:11:35.278
<v SPEAKER_4>Are we done with him?

01:11:35.278 --> 01:11:36.418
<v SPEAKER_4>We're done with him, Freddie.

01:11:38.978 --> 01:11:47.318
<v SPEAKER_3>Amy Adams, who we've dealt with previously in this podcast, before I asked you, I know what you thought of her because you must have loved her.

01:11:49.738 --> 01:11:56.758
<v SPEAKER_3>We dealt with Amy Adams in American Hustle, and your criticism was, you saw too much of her boob.

01:11:57.098 --> 01:12:03.378
<v SPEAKER_3>You must have loved her in this film because you didn't see any of her boobs other than Freddie's fantasy when she's naked.

01:12:03.378 --> 01:12:07.218
<v SPEAKER_3>Remember in the, she's one of the naked.

01:12:07.218 --> 01:12:08.478
<v SPEAKER_4>Pregnant and naked.

01:12:08.478 --> 01:12:12.378
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, although she did not have to don a mercant because she's seated.

01:12:12.378 --> 01:12:13.338
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, she was.

01:12:13.338 --> 01:12:14.298
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:12:15.038 --> 01:12:17.338
<v SPEAKER_3>Another good band name in San Francisco.

01:12:17.338 --> 01:12:18.458
<v SPEAKER_4>Don a mercant?

01:12:18.458 --> 01:12:20.138
<v SPEAKER_3>No, the seated mercants.

01:12:22.978 --> 01:12:24.978
<v SPEAKER_2>The seated mercants.

01:12:26.498 --> 01:12:29.478
<v SPEAKER_3>So you loved Amy Adams not showing her boobs.

01:12:30.078 --> 01:12:31.758
<v SPEAKER_3>What did you think of her performance?

01:12:31.758 --> 01:12:36.038
<v SPEAKER_4>I think the performance was limited because the role was very limited.

01:12:36.038 --> 01:12:38.678
<v SPEAKER_4>But she doesn't pop out.

01:12:38.678 --> 01:12:39.938
<v SPEAKER_4>She does the job.

01:12:39.938 --> 01:12:42.298
<v SPEAKER_4>I don't think it was Bavora.

01:12:42.298 --> 01:12:47.638
<v SPEAKER_4>She certainly in American Hustle was a wider range of work there.

01:12:48.618 --> 01:12:52.798
<v SPEAKER_3>Let me just say, so you think she did not show range in this movie?

01:12:52.798 --> 01:12:55.818
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I really don't.

01:12:56.218 --> 01:12:58.998
<v SPEAKER_4>I thought she was a true believing, loyal wife.

01:12:59.378 --> 01:13:02.318
<v SPEAKER_3>So, can you turn your eyes black, FT.?

01:13:03.338 --> 01:13:05.038
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:13:05.038 --> 01:13:07.218
<v SPEAKER_3>That's not easy to do.

01:13:07.218 --> 01:13:08.318
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, who said it was?

01:13:08.318 --> 01:13:09.178
<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't.

01:13:09.178 --> 01:13:09.958
<v SPEAKER_4>Did I?

01:13:09.958 --> 01:13:20.878
<v SPEAKER_4>But the interesting thing was the Victorian, during, what's her name, Fresh Air, he talked about, they just threw that in when she reads a Victorian porn.

01:13:20.878 --> 01:13:21.698
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, really?

01:13:21.698 --> 01:13:23.418
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, the cameras broke.

01:13:23.418 --> 01:13:25.958
<v SPEAKER_4>He said that the cameras broke.

01:13:26.798 --> 01:13:27.578
<v SPEAKER_3>As they often did.

01:13:27.858 --> 01:13:29.158
<v SPEAKER_4>The 65mm, right?

01:13:29.158 --> 01:13:29.678
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:13:29.678 --> 01:13:34.618
<v SPEAKER_4>And they just had a regular 35 and they didn't want to waste a day.

01:13:34.618 --> 01:13:43.118
<v SPEAKER_4>And somebody found that online this Victorian porn and as one of the exercises to desensitize, you know, Freddie.

01:13:43.118 --> 01:13:46.078
<v SPEAKER_4>But he says that was one of the best days on set.

01:13:46.078 --> 01:13:49.258
<v SPEAKER_4>It was when Amy Adams read that, like, so straight.

01:13:49.258 --> 01:13:50.338
<v SPEAKER_8>This is difficult for you.

01:13:54.138 --> 01:13:56.798
<v SPEAKER_8>Listen.

01:13:56.798 --> 01:14:00.078
<v SPEAKER_8>It's really a damn shame to tease you, so, my little whore, he laughed.

01:14:00.078 --> 01:14:03.778
<v SPEAKER_8>So I will get the dildo out of my cabinet in the next room.

01:14:03.778 --> 01:14:09.298
<v SPEAKER_8>He was scarcely gone many seconds before he returned and I felt his fingers opening the lips of my cunt.

01:14:09.298 --> 01:14:11.378
<v SPEAKER_8>Oh, oh, oh, who is that?

01:14:11.378 --> 01:14:12.338
<v SPEAKER_8>I screamed from under my skirt.

01:14:12.358 --> 01:14:13.878
<v SPEAKER_1>I don't want to hear you do this.

01:14:13.878 --> 01:14:15.458
<v SPEAKER_8>Just listen.

01:14:15.458 --> 01:14:16.618
<v SPEAKER_8>No reaction.

01:14:18.358 --> 01:14:19.338
<v SPEAKER_8>Kiss her.

01:14:19.338 --> 01:14:21.358
<v SPEAKER_8>Put your tongue in her mouth, my boy.

01:14:21.358 --> 01:14:22.458
<v SPEAKER_8>Fuck.

01:14:22.458 --> 01:14:23.938
<v SPEAKER_2>Fuck.

01:14:23.958 --> 01:14:25.438
<v SPEAKER_8>Fuck away.

01:14:25.438 --> 01:14:26.338
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

01:14:26.338 --> 01:14:26.818
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, it's great.

01:14:26.818 --> 01:14:27.658
<v SPEAKER_4>It's pretty crazy.

01:14:27.658 --> 01:14:28.858
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, it's nuts.

01:14:28.858 --> 01:14:29.558
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.

01:14:29.558 --> 01:14:30.858
<v SPEAKER_4>So, you know, I liked that.

01:14:30.858 --> 01:14:32.518
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, that was good.

01:14:32.518 --> 01:14:34.038
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:14:34.238 --> 01:14:37.318
<v SPEAKER_3>Do you know who was originally supposed to play that role?

01:14:37.318 --> 01:14:39.398
<v SPEAKER_4>Agnes Moorhead.

01:14:39.398 --> 01:14:39.598
<v SPEAKER_4>No.

01:14:40.938 --> 01:14:41.798
<v SPEAKER_3>That's her.

01:14:41.798 --> 01:14:43.478
<v SPEAKER_3>Actually, it would have been interesting.

01:14:43.478 --> 01:14:44.338
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:14:44.738 --> 01:14:45.978
<v SPEAKER_3>Reese Witherspoon.

01:14:45.978 --> 01:14:47.138
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh.

01:14:47.218 --> 01:14:47.638
<v SPEAKER_3>Huh.

01:14:47.938 --> 01:14:52.618
<v SPEAKER_3>Who Paul Thomas Anderson really wanted, and she's in Inherent Vice.

01:14:52.618 --> 01:14:53.798
<v SPEAKER_3>He got to use her.

01:14:53.798 --> 01:14:54.538
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:14:54.538 --> 01:14:56.018
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, she's, you know, yeah.

01:14:56.138 --> 01:15:15.878
<v SPEAKER_3>And I think it would have been very interesting if, again, with that same character direction being very stern, very prim, you know, and, you know, picturing Reese Witherspoon reading that Victorian porn very straight, I think it would have been fantastic.

01:15:15.878 --> 01:15:16.978
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes, it would have been.

01:15:16.978 --> 01:15:17.578
<v SPEAKER_4>But you know what?

01:15:17.578 --> 01:15:19.958
<v SPEAKER_4>I really liked Amy Adams in this.

01:15:20.758 --> 01:15:37.038
<v SPEAKER_4>She really had the true believer, you know, and the rage, you know, about that whole business about, you know, the best way to defend ourselves is to attack, you know, and part of that is the script, of course, but, you know, yeah, it was good.

01:15:37.038 --> 01:15:41.158
<v SPEAKER_3>So FT., why don't we move along to the supporting cast of THE MASTER?

01:15:41.158 --> 01:15:42.218
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you say to that?

01:15:42.218 --> 01:15:44.298
<v SPEAKER_4>I think it's a great idea.

01:15:44.298 --> 01:15:49.178
<v SPEAKER_3>Why don't we start with Bruce Dern's daughter?

01:15:49.178 --> 01:15:49.878
<v SPEAKER_2>Why are you laughing?

01:15:49.878 --> 01:15:50.738
<v SPEAKER_2>Laura Dern.

01:15:50.738 --> 01:15:52.278
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, is this another one of the things?

01:15:52.278 --> 01:15:56.618
<v SPEAKER_3>Oh, I refer to, you probably call her Laura Dern, right?

01:15:56.618 --> 01:15:56.918
<v SPEAKER_4>Ms.

01:15:56.918 --> 01:15:58.638
<v SPEAKER_4>Dern, you know what I mean?

01:15:58.678 --> 01:16:00.658
<v SPEAKER_3>Or what do you think of Laura Dern?

01:16:00.658 --> 01:16:01.538
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, she was good.

01:16:01.538 --> 01:16:04.478
<v SPEAKER_4>She was really, I liked her.

01:16:04.478 --> 01:16:05.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Two main scenes, right?

01:16:05.618 --> 01:16:07.178
<v SPEAKER_4>And they weren't long.

01:16:07.358 --> 01:16:10.698
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, she got cut, she got in the outtake reel.

01:16:10.698 --> 01:16:13.538
<v SPEAKER_3>She had another scene which got cut.

01:16:13.538 --> 01:16:14.698
<v SPEAKER_3>But...

01:16:14.698 --> 01:16:16.558
<v SPEAKER_4>Should it have been, or was it good?

01:16:16.558 --> 01:16:18.438
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it was good, but...

01:16:18.438 --> 01:16:18.818
<v SPEAKER_4>Didn't work.

01:16:18.818 --> 01:16:21.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Again, it's all about how the film moves along a little bit.

01:16:21.998 --> 01:16:26.218
<v SPEAKER_4>Writing and rewriting the films, which is what we know editing really is.

01:16:26.218 --> 01:16:33.758
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, but I think, but I think even though she was only in for two scenes, I think I liked her in the scene.

01:16:33.758 --> 01:16:34.998
<v SPEAKER_3>She was in your thoughts.

01:16:34.998 --> 01:16:35.998
<v SPEAKER_4>Me too, me too.

01:16:35.998 --> 01:16:43.618
<v SPEAKER_4>Particularly the, well, both of them, where she was the accolade, is that the correct word in Philadelphia?

01:16:43.618 --> 01:16:45.318
<v SPEAKER_3>Accolite.

01:16:45.998 --> 01:16:48.058
<v SPEAKER_4>Accolade is a drink.

01:16:48.058 --> 01:16:53.178
<v SPEAKER_4>Accolite, yes, where she's going on a variation.

01:16:53.178 --> 01:16:54.418
<v SPEAKER_4>It's nice not to hear.

01:16:54.418 --> 01:16:55.898
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, accolite.

01:16:57.578 --> 01:16:59.518
<v SPEAKER_3>Less calories, more feeling.

01:16:59.518 --> 01:17:03.778
<v SPEAKER_4>Accolade, less calories, more time traveling.

01:17:03.778 --> 01:17:06.718
<v SPEAKER_3>Accolade, accolade with electric leads.

01:17:06.758 --> 01:17:09.018
<v SPEAKER_4>With electric leads.

01:17:09.018 --> 01:17:10.098
<v SPEAKER_4>Sorry, go ahead.

01:17:10.098 --> 01:17:39.198
<v SPEAKER_4>So she's a practitioner and any sort of movement needs those practitioners that are close to part of the research, he keeps talking about, but particularly the Phoenix scene where she comes in, sort of points out the major change, which is theoretically, you know, and it's the second time we see, of course, you know, Phil Hoffman as you, you're your buddy Phil, explode, you know, it's good.

01:17:39.198 --> 01:17:44.358
<v SPEAKER_3>I came up with with a saying about acting, which nobody's ever said before.

01:17:44.358 --> 01:17:47.378
<v SPEAKER_4>And wait, it's all casting?

01:17:47.378 --> 01:17:49.738
<v SPEAKER_3>No, that was the other saying.

01:17:49.798 --> 01:17:52.418
<v SPEAKER_3>No, this is my saying, acting is reacting.

01:17:52.418 --> 01:18:04.078
<v SPEAKER_3>And her reaction when she sits down next to him and says, I don't understand if we used to do this, now we do this.

01:18:04.078 --> 01:18:14.598
<v SPEAKER_7>And as I've begun, I did notice on page 13, there's a change, change the processing platform question.

01:18:15.598 --> 01:18:16.898
<v SPEAKER_7>Now it says, can you imagine?

01:18:24.743 --> 01:18:27.963
<v SPEAKER_1>Yes.

01:18:27.963 --> 01:18:34.583
<v SPEAKER_7>If our previous method was to induce memory by asking, can you recall, doesn't it, and change everything?

01:18:34.583 --> 01:18:35.723
<v SPEAKER_7>Now we say, can you imagine?

01:18:35.723 --> 01:18:41.383
<v SPEAKER_1>We are invoking a new, wider range to account for the new data.

01:18:41.383 --> 01:18:48.503
<v SPEAKER_1>Can you imagine allows for a more creative pathway to the mind, more open?

01:18:51.263 --> 01:18:52.783
<v SPEAKER_8>What do you want?

01:18:55.363 --> 01:18:59.883
<v SPEAKER_3>Her look, her reaction is fantastic.

01:18:59.883 --> 01:19:00.903
<v SPEAKER_4>It's not that.

01:19:00.903 --> 01:19:02.083
<v SPEAKER_4>We don't want that.

01:19:02.083 --> 01:19:04.083
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah.

01:19:04.323 --> 01:19:06.103
<v SPEAKER_3>And that's the tough thing about acting.

01:19:06.103 --> 01:19:18.663
<v SPEAKER_3>Again, you know, the actors who, you know, chew the scenery or do the big one, you know, they get all the glory, but that reaction, I thought, was fantastic.

01:19:18.663 --> 01:19:19.543
<v SPEAKER_4>It was notable.

01:19:19.543 --> 01:19:20.683
<v SPEAKER_4>It was really notable.

01:19:20.683 --> 01:19:22.023
<v SPEAKER_4>You know, yep.

01:19:22.023 --> 01:19:26.883
<v SPEAKER_3>Let's move on to cinematography or as they say in Italy, cinematography.

01:19:26.943 --> 01:19:28.503
<v SPEAKER_5>They do.

01:19:29.943 --> 01:19:31.323
<v SPEAKER_3>What did you think?

01:19:31.323 --> 01:19:32.143
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you know?

01:19:32.663 --> 01:19:34.123
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it's worth discussing.

01:19:34.123 --> 01:19:49.563
<v SPEAKER_3>I know sometimes cinematography conversations can get boring, but I think for Paul Thomas, I know for Paul Thomas Anderson, sometimes to his detriment, he is very focused on photography and the technical aspects of photography.

01:19:50.823 --> 01:19:51.623
<v SPEAKER_3>Why are you laughing?

01:19:51.623 --> 01:19:52.663
<v SPEAKER_4>Focused.

01:19:52.803 --> 01:19:54.303
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, sorry.

01:19:54.303 --> 01:19:55.943
<v SPEAKER_3>Thank you.

01:19:55.943 --> 01:19:57.523
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes.

01:19:57.523 --> 01:19:58.363
<v SPEAKER_3>No pun intended.

01:19:58.363 --> 01:19:59.443
<v SPEAKER_2>He emulsifies.

01:20:01.563 --> 01:20:21.863
<v SPEAKER_3>And I say it's sometimes to his detriment because he was always interested in photography and cinematography, but he made the decision, which I think worked against him in Wickerish Pizza, to be a DP and used a gaffer, who was I think the gaffer on this film, as what he called the lighting photographer.

01:20:21.863 --> 01:20:27.243
<v SPEAKER_3>I think is the term he used, which is a British term that Kubrick used to use strangely enough.

01:20:27.243 --> 01:20:33.163
<v SPEAKER_3>And so Paul Thomas Anderson, his films are so much about the visual.

01:20:33.163 --> 01:20:42.183
<v SPEAKER_3>I've heard him say that what he likes, the films he likes, he basically likes films that are visuals and music, is what he likes to watch.

01:20:42.183 --> 01:20:46.023
<v SPEAKER_3>And so this film is so much about the visuals.

01:20:47.343 --> 01:20:58.103
<v SPEAKER_3>They shot it in 65 millimeter, a large format, the first film that had been shot in 65 millimeter for I think 10 years before that.

01:20:58.103 --> 01:20:59.323
<v SPEAKER_4>How about that, yeah.

01:20:59.323 --> 01:21:06.363
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, and I think it was, I'm sorry, do you wanna jump in anything before we talk about 65 millimeter?

01:21:06.543 --> 01:21:11.443
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, I just went from the Terry Gross, he shot it, it's ASA 50.

01:21:11.443 --> 01:21:16.763
<v SPEAKER_4>It was such a slow, slow, you know.

01:21:16.763 --> 01:21:17.723
<v SPEAKER_3>For the daylight scenes.

01:21:17.743 --> 01:21:19.843
<v SPEAKER_4>For the daylight stuff, yeah.

01:21:19.843 --> 01:21:41.083
<v SPEAKER_3>So yeah, so he, much to his cinematographers chagrin, he insisted on, as you said, shooting on a 50 ASA film, which is incredibly slow for stocks these days, but I think was fantastic because of that, you know, the shallow depth of field in this film is just breathtaking.

01:21:41.083 --> 01:21:47.083
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, what stands out in my mind is the first time we see Freddie in the department store.

01:21:47.083 --> 01:21:47.303
<v SPEAKER_4>Yes.

01:21:47.303 --> 01:21:59.423
<v SPEAKER_3>Where we see him behind a Roloflex camera, and he is so sharp, the camera is so sharp, the production, everything so, and everything behind him is just out of focus.

01:21:59.423 --> 01:22:03.543
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's a fantastic shot if you go back and take another look at that.

01:22:03.583 --> 01:22:04.643
<v SPEAKER_3>But yeah, the choice.

01:22:04.643 --> 01:22:09.423
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, then the shot preceding that, the portrait shots were amazing.

01:22:09.423 --> 01:22:12.403
<v SPEAKER_4>That was amazing for a couple of reasons.

01:22:12.543 --> 01:22:17.523
<v SPEAKER_4>What preceded that immediately, I forget, but it's odd that-

01:22:17.963 --> 01:22:19.403
<v SPEAKER_3>I think it's probably-

01:22:19.403 --> 01:22:21.423
<v SPEAKER_4>Running through the scenes.

01:22:21.423 --> 01:22:22.463
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, you're right.

01:22:22.463 --> 01:22:23.743
<v SPEAKER_4>I think it might be Salinas.

01:22:24.163 --> 01:22:25.083
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, you're right.

01:22:25.083 --> 01:22:25.983
<v SPEAKER_3>I think you're right.

01:22:26.023 --> 01:22:29.163
<v SPEAKER_4>But yeah, and the kids lined up-

01:22:30.143 --> 01:22:30.883
<v SPEAKER_3>I didn't give-

01:22:31.483 --> 01:22:32.043
<v SPEAKER_3>What's the line?

01:22:32.043 --> 01:22:32.883
<v SPEAKER_3>I didn't give him poison.

01:22:32.883 --> 01:22:34.603
<v SPEAKER_3>He drank it.

01:22:34.703 --> 01:22:36.263
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you got to drink it right.

01:22:36.383 --> 01:22:38.183
<v SPEAKER_4>By the way, that's one thing we didn't talk about.

01:22:38.183 --> 01:22:41.303
<v SPEAKER_4>When he says about that guy, he says, you look like my father.

01:22:41.303 --> 01:22:42.383
<v SPEAKER_3>Right.

01:22:42.383 --> 01:22:43.643
<v SPEAKER_4>Which is interesting.

01:22:44.343 --> 01:22:45.783
<v SPEAKER_4>That's probably a Steinbeck thing.

01:22:45.783 --> 01:22:47.043
<v SPEAKER_4>People keep talking about Steinbeck.

01:22:47.043 --> 01:22:51.043
<v SPEAKER_4>There's probably something in all the Steinbeck memoir stuff.

01:22:51.043 --> 01:22:56.703
<v SPEAKER_4>Anyhow, yeah, the cinematography there, the department store stuff was stunning.

01:22:56.703 --> 01:22:57.083
<v SPEAKER_3>I thought so.

01:22:57.083 --> 01:23:02.623
<v SPEAKER_4>And of course, there's the major shots, the three repeated images of the ocean.

01:23:02.863 --> 01:23:06.923
<v SPEAKER_4>And all the unconscious, the Jungian stuff, the depths and all that.

01:23:06.923 --> 01:23:08.623
<v SPEAKER_4>But that shot's beautiful.

01:23:08.623 --> 01:23:10.643
<v SPEAKER_4>That shot is astonishing.

01:23:10.643 --> 01:23:13.203
<v SPEAKER_4>That aquamarine and the oceans wave.

01:23:13.303 --> 01:23:20.243
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, just imagine how, I don't know where I saw, I would imagine that I saw this film in the theater.

01:23:20.243 --> 01:23:23.363
<v SPEAKER_3>But I, for some reason, can't recall being in the theater.

01:23:23.363 --> 01:23:29.763
<v SPEAKER_3>Unfortunately, I don't think I saw it projected in, they projected it in 70 millimeter, which was the prints.

01:23:32.243 --> 01:24:12.303
<v SPEAKER_3>Unfortunately, I don't think I saw it in 70 millimeter, but from the people who saw it in 70 millimeter, they just said, and they talked about that ocean shot, when the film starts with that ocean shot, they just talk about being blown away, which is interesting because after this film came out, basically, I think the same year Tarantino shot in 65 millimeter, he shot, I may be wrong, he shot The Hateful Eight in 65 millimeter with Bob Richardson, who's a fantastic DP, and I made a point to go see it in the theater in 65, you know, drove to San Francisco, the theater, showing it in 70 millimeter, and was not blown away.

01:24:12.303 --> 01:24:18.003
<v SPEAKER_3>Whereas this film, even just watching it in the video transfer, blown away by the way it looks.

01:24:18.003 --> 01:24:19.983
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh yeah, it's beautiful.

01:24:20.043 --> 01:24:35.763
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, and interesting, you know, I'm a large format person, I believe bigger is better, and that's, my wife always tries to convince me that that's not true, but I feel like she might not be being truthful.

01:24:35.763 --> 01:24:37.143
<v SPEAKER_3>Sorry, I'm getting off topic here.

01:24:37.143 --> 01:24:38.463
<v SPEAKER_4>No way.

01:24:38.543 --> 01:24:55.263
<v SPEAKER_3>I think when it comes to film, bigger, as a photographer, I had a four by five camera, and having a bigger piece of film, more image area, it just makes such a, you know, the photographers I love, like Steven, I love large format photographers.

01:24:55.263 --> 01:24:59.963
<v SPEAKER_3>That was my problem with digital cinematography when it came in.

01:24:59.963 --> 01:25:12.623
<v SPEAKER_3>The sensors were so small, like way, you know, I think the original sensors on digital film cameras were like a quarter of the size of a 35 millimeter film negative.

01:25:13.743 --> 01:25:31.343
<v SPEAKER_3>And now I've made big piece with digital cinematography, because the sensors have gotten much bigger, and now they have 65 millimeter, Ari has a 65 millimeter sensor digital camera, Inoratsu used it on the Revenant, and that looks fantastic.

01:25:31.343 --> 01:25:40.443
<v SPEAKER_4>I would have to say besides larger format grain, speed, you know, honestly, finer grain film makes all the difference for me.

01:25:40.443 --> 01:25:46.763
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, why don't we move on, but I don't think we should wrap this show up without a shout out to Jack Fisk.

01:25:46.763 --> 01:25:50.023
<v SPEAKER_4>Exactly, shout out, shouting out to Jack Fisk.

01:25:50.023 --> 01:25:52.463
<v SPEAKER_4>Now you're supposed to ask, do you know who Jack Fisk is?

01:25:52.463 --> 01:25:55.643
<v SPEAKER_3>No, why are you shouting out to Jack Fisk, FT.?

01:25:55.803 --> 01:25:57.863
<v SPEAKER_4>Because you told me to.

01:25:57.863 --> 01:25:59.363
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, you know who he is at this point.

01:25:59.363 --> 01:26:00.723
<v SPEAKER_4>No, I do not.

01:26:00.723 --> 01:26:12.183
<v SPEAKER_3>He was the production designer, but one of the most famous production designers did all the Terence Malick's films, did There Will Be Blood, did the last Scorsese film.

01:26:12.183 --> 01:26:13.923
<v SPEAKER_4>Gotcha, gotcha.

01:26:13.923 --> 01:26:21.143
<v SPEAKER_3>It's interesting because what he's known for is he builds everything gets built, like on THEY SHOOT FILMS.

01:26:21.743 --> 01:26:24.663
<v SPEAKER_4>Like on our set here, in my studio.

01:26:25.883 --> 01:26:29.263
<v SPEAKER_3>Yes, Jack Fisk builds Frank's studio.

01:26:29.263 --> 01:26:31.263
<v SPEAKER_4>And the oil well outside of it.

01:26:31.263 --> 01:26:32.303
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, no, sorry.

01:26:32.303 --> 01:26:38.903
<v SPEAKER_3>So he, on There Will Be Blood, everything, that whole town, the oil, Derrick, was all built and practiced.

01:26:38.903 --> 01:26:42.783
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, it was not sets, it was 360 degrees of oil well.

01:26:43.263 --> 01:26:46.283
<v SPEAKER_3>Interesting, I didn't know that until researching this film.

01:26:46.283 --> 01:26:50.863
<v SPEAKER_3>The oil, Derrick, in There Will Be Blood, was a working oil, Derrick.

01:26:51.943 --> 01:26:53.403
<v SPEAKER_3>It could pump oil.

01:26:53.403 --> 01:26:54.323
<v SPEAKER_4>I believe it.

01:26:54.323 --> 01:27:05.023
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, so he's known, again, one of the great production designers, but builds it, oh sorry, he did the Revenant and that whole town, the fort they go to at the end.

01:27:05.023 --> 01:27:11.443
<v SPEAKER_3>The whole thing is built and then none of it is, build the fort, again, not sets, but the nails have to be, the nails that build the...

01:27:11.443 --> 01:27:12.763
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah, which is stupid.

01:27:12.763 --> 01:27:19.083
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, have to be blacksmith made nails, and the wood is all...

01:27:19.083 --> 01:27:20.623
<v SPEAKER_4>Millions of dollars.

01:27:20.623 --> 01:27:33.763
<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, and it's not stupid, because again, then when you're on the set, A, it looks better, and B, when you're acting, it puts you in it as an actor, but you can call it stupid, FT.

01:27:33.763 --> 01:27:34.643
<v SPEAKER_3>But again, you...

01:27:34.663 --> 01:27:36.863
<v SPEAKER_4>It's money, man, that's a...

01:27:37.043 --> 01:27:38.003
<v SPEAKER_4>Blacksmith made...

01:27:38.003 --> 01:27:39.043
<v SPEAKER_4>We had this discussion...

01:27:39.043 --> 01:27:41.803
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, we didn't do the revenue on the show, yeah, right, anyhow.

01:27:41.803 --> 01:27:42.423
<v SPEAKER_4>Let's move on.

01:27:42.423 --> 01:27:46.943
<v SPEAKER_3>Right, well, you come from the world of low-budget New York filmmaking, and...

01:27:46.943 --> 01:27:48.823
<v SPEAKER_4>Well, I come from...

01:27:49.243 --> 01:28:00.523
<v SPEAKER_4>Let me put it this way, there's a lot of things that I would rather do, and I think actors can get other motivations from than blacksmith-made nails.

01:28:00.523 --> 01:28:01.783
<v SPEAKER_4>Okay, come on.

01:28:01.783 --> 01:28:09.523
<v SPEAKER_4>I think there's an excess to things, but I respect it, I think it's fantastic, and if people are going to do it, fine, more power to you.

01:28:09.523 --> 01:28:11.523
<v SPEAKER_3>So long as you show respect, that's good.

01:28:11.523 --> 01:28:12.683
<v SPEAKER_4>I showed respect, but...

01:28:12.683 --> 01:28:20.503
<v SPEAKER_3>What I was about to say, the interesting thing about this film, even though this was a very big budget film for PT.

01:28:20.503 --> 01:28:30.223
<v SPEAKER_3>Anderson, at 35 million, and it actually was rumored to be more like 40 million, was that they really didn't build sets here.

01:28:30.883 --> 01:28:41.763
<v SPEAKER_3>The one set that was really quote-unquote built was really more extreme dressing was the department store, which was just in an empty building.

01:28:41.763 --> 01:28:45.303
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's interesting because that looked fantastic.

01:28:45.303 --> 01:28:54.283
<v SPEAKER_3>But also, I kind of felt like it was so obvious, for me, it was so obviously just a set built in an empty building.

01:28:54.283 --> 01:29:06.443
<v SPEAKER_3>I did love the way they dressed that department store set, but if you look up above where they've dressed it, there's a bare concrete wall, obviously of this building they went inside of and just painted on it.

01:29:06.443 --> 01:29:10.263
<v SPEAKER_3>It's just painted on lingerie, whatever department it was.

01:29:10.263 --> 01:29:13.223
<v SPEAKER_3>That doesn't feel right to me, just painted on a bare concrete wall.

01:29:13.223 --> 01:29:18.483
<v SPEAKER_3>That doesn't seem like it feels like things really were back at that time.

01:29:18.483 --> 01:29:26.123
<v SPEAKER_4>It was a general feel, though, that really captured of a department store, with the sound, the hustle, the bustle, the lighting and all that stuff.

01:29:26.123 --> 01:29:27.243
<v SPEAKER_4>I didn't even notice that.

01:29:27.243 --> 01:29:30.903
<v SPEAKER_4>But it's the way the department stores were back in the 50s.

01:29:31.203 --> 01:29:32.463
<v SPEAKER_4>There were no malls.

01:29:32.463 --> 01:29:37.143
<v SPEAKER_4>And this really is the end of the department store era, right there, you see.

01:29:39.723 --> 01:29:46.123
<v SPEAKER_3>Speaking of endings of department store eras and of podcasts, I want to wrap this up, FT.

01:29:46.123 --> 01:29:50.943
<v SPEAKER_3>I'd like to thank everybody for listening to this episode of THEY SHOOT FILMS.

01:29:50.943 --> 01:30:01.063
<v SPEAKER_3>If you got a chance, or even if you don't have a chance, please help us out in your podcast app, where you're listening right now, up at the top or somewhere, you'll probably see some stars.

01:30:01.063 --> 01:30:05.483
<v SPEAKER_3>There's usually five stars that are hollow.

01:30:05.483 --> 01:30:12.643
<v SPEAKER_3>If you can turn those stars, if you can turn those stars white by clicking on five stars, we'd really appreciate it.

01:30:12.643 --> 01:30:18.203
<v SPEAKER_3>If you don't think it's worth five stars, make four, you know, four stars are good.

01:30:18.203 --> 01:30:22.423
<v SPEAKER_3>Whatever you can do to light up those stars, we would appreciate.

01:30:23.043 --> 01:30:27.563
<v SPEAKER_3>FT., I'd like to bid you adieu as the French would say.

01:30:27.563 --> 01:30:29.183
<v SPEAKER_4>Adieu what?

01:30:29.183 --> 01:30:30.903
<v SPEAKER_4>No, no, no, I hear you.

01:30:30.903 --> 01:30:33.543
<v SPEAKER_4>Adieu.

01:30:33.543 --> 01:30:34.663
<v SPEAKER_4>See you, Ken.

01:30:34.663 --> 01:30:36.423
<v SPEAKER_3>So long, my friend.

01:30:36.423 --> 01:30:40.783
<v SPEAKER_2>THEY SHOOT FILMS is a production of Film Symposium West.

01:30:40.783 --> 01:30:42.783
<v SPEAKER_2>Produced by Anne-Marie De Palma.

01:30:42.783 --> 01:30:45.023
<v SPEAKER_2>Studio announcer, Roy Blumenfeld.